Good basic 2 door capability video

Joe98

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Excellent find thank you!
 

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At least he admits stick are a big disadvantage for wheelen. Just get a JLR. He doesn't understand tire patch. PSI determines tire patch size https://bt39.com/

In another video he says air down in snow, which is the opposite of what you want.
 

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A lot of people air down in snow because there are many types of snow conditions. I was just watching a guy struggle because the snow close to the coast whe he normally is was wet snow and he was driving a different area where it was dry and powdery. Sometimes, especially in really deep snow, you want flotation because taller skinny tires will never hit bottom. Ive driven on top of four feet of snow on trails and it may work either way, depending on how wet or dry the snow is, to run pizza cutters with less contact patch and more contact pressure, or the opposite with larger contact patch. Snow is different and definitely not one-size fits all.
 

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A lot of people air down in snow because there are many types of snow conditions. I was just watching a guy struggle because the snow close to the coast whe he normally is was wet snow and he was driving a different area where it was dry and powdery. Sometimes, especially in really deep snow, you want flotation because taller skinny tires will never hit bottom. Ive driven on top of four feet of snow on trails and it may work either way, depending on how wet or dry the snow is, to run pizza cutters with less contact patch and more contact pressure, or the opposite with larger contact patch. Snow is different and definitely not one-size fits all.
Spend many years in the PNW and I've never seen snow you could drive on top of. I'd like to see a video of that. They air down because they believe in the myth. Montana, very dry snow, PNW, very wet snow. Vastly different yes, but chains and pizza cutters still rule. Unless you have a snowmobile, you're not going to drive on top of it.

If you want to analyze contact patch, see my https://bt39.com/
 

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...

Vastly different yes, but chains and pizza cutters still rule. Unless you have a snowmobile, you're not going to drive on top of it.

If you want to analyze contact patch, see my https://bt39.com/
I haven't lived in the PNW too long, but over 20 years. When I was young I was in the Sierra Nevada mountains, where I learned to drive, at age 13. I live on the "wet side" of the Cascades and we drive "on top of" the snow all the time, and yes, I've had four feet of snow under the Jeep. Chains don't help unless you have something to bite. Sometimes wet snow will provide some bite, sometimes not. Deep dry snow usually doesn't provide anything for the chains to bite and you just dig yourself in until you're sitting on the frame.

BTW, I've always run the narrowest tire in the group, narrowest tire in the 4x4 club I ran with back in the day. Sometimes the pizza cutters helped, but sometimes they didn't (often they didn't) because they just dug in and there wasn't anything to provide traction. Pizza cutters are great when you can get "down" to something that provides traction. That's often not the case in deep snow.

If you've ever seen, or driven in, snow that was more than a few inches, you're probably driving "on top of" snow. You're probably not getting traction from the asphalt or surface under the snow.
 

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I live on the "wet side" of the Cascades and we drive "on top of" the snow all the time, and yes, I've had four feet of snow under the Jeep. Chains don't help unless you have something to bite. Sometimes wet snow will provide some bite, sometimes not. Deep dry snow usually doesn't provide anything for the chains to bite and you just dig yourself in until you're sitting on the frame.
Started wheeling solo when I was 9 y.o. in Montana. We get wet snow in late August, May. Live in Seattle for 25 years. Dry snow is much more forgiving as it's not as compressible.

You can't drive on top of snow, it compresses. I suppose there's a 1 in a million case where you could drive on 4 ft of snow that was super compressed if you had 18" wide tires, but as soon as you hit a hill or obstacle, you'll dig down to the frame.

Wet snow is the worst as it's the most compressible. True snow is different. So is sand, vastly different. In sand, you want to air down, in snow, pizza cutters and chains and you're limited by how deep the snow is. You can push much snow over the axles.

Send a video of driving on 4 feet of snow up a hill or over an obstacle?
 

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I guess your Google is broken?

https://treadlightly.org/how-to-four-wheel-in-the-snow-safely/
"Air down your tires to a standard off-road level. For a 31-in. tire, that would be in the 18 to 15 psi range."

This link provides a lot more information, including why lockers may or may not be beneficial (what I call crab-walking).
https://4wheeldriveguide.com/snow-wheeling-tips-off-road-in-deep-snow-like-a-pro/
" Air down your tires to 6psi-8psi to expand the surface area, thereby increasing your vehicle’s capability and stability in snow. Fit snow tires with a flexible carcass, wide footprint, and semi-aggressive tread pattern to allow the tire to float the vehicle over the snow without digging in.

DO NOT dig down wherever possible and avoid churning up deep holes...
Once you start digging holes, you are as good as stuck. If however, the snow is just a few inches deep, use the gas pedal and don’t be too concerned about the snow type too much. "

"The key to snow wheeling is low air psi and easy on the skinny pedal "


If you can get your Google fixed, there are many, many more resources online. Or, you could go drive in a few inches of snow, get out and look and see that you've compressed the snow (as you stated) and your tires are on top of it (you'll see your tire tread pattern), as opposed to spinning up enough to hit the surface underneath. That will be the case in a few inches, or a few feet, of snow.
 
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J0E

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I guess your Google is broken?

https://treadlightly.org/how-to-four-wheel-in-the-snow-safely/
"Air down your tires to a standard off-road level. For a 31-in. tire, that would be in the 18 to 15 psi range."
And you believe everything you read on the internet? Like our Jeep owners manual on low range:

When off-road driving, shift into 4WD Low for additional traction and control on slippery or difficult terrain, ascending or descending steep hills, and to increase low speed pulling power. This range should be limited to extreme situations such as deep snow, mud, steep inclines, or sand where additional low speed pulling power is needed. Vehicle speeds in excess of 25 mph (40 km/h) should be avoided when in 4WD Low.

Pure BS written decades ago and copied in each new manual. That's the same in the non rubicon jeeps that don't have the 4:1 xfer case. As many have stated in this forum, you can hit 50 in low range in a Rubicon.

The last video tires are not aired down. It clearly shows you can't push much snow, and airing down lowers the rig.

LOL on the first video, skinniest tires did the best. And they call that deep? They've never chained up with skinny tires.

And you need help when to use lockers in snow?

Pulling hundreds of stuck 4x4's with wide tires and 50 years of snow wheeling and working with farmers who work in the snow 3-4 months every summer is better than bogus google searches.
 

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Ive driven on top of four feet of snow on trails and it may work either way,
That's impossible.

DO NOT dig down wherever possible and avoid churning up deep holes... Once you start digging holes, you are as good as stuck.
That's exactly right and proves you're wrong. Only in perfect conditions, level, no hills, pavement, will you ever not spin. You do actually drive on a thin layer of compressed snow, but once you spin, you dig down. The bigger the patch, the worse the traction, as the patch acts like a ski. They why chains on tall skinny tires rule.
 

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And you believe everything you read on the internet? Like our Jeep owners manual on low range:
Haha, no, you asked for the links, not me. You just decided to ignore them because you disagree with them. You got what you asked for.

When off-road driving, shift into 4WD Low for additional traction and control on slippery or difficult terrain, ascending or descending steep hills, and to increase low speed pulling power. This range should be limited to extreme situations such as deep snow, mud, steep inclines, or sand where additional low speed pulling power is needed. Vehicle speeds in excess of 25 mph (40 km/h) should be avoided when in 4WD Low.

Pure BS written decades ago and copied in each new manual. That's the same in the non rubicon jeeps that don't have the 4:1 xfer case. As many have stated in this forum, you can hit 50 in low range in a Rubicon.
This has nothing to do with my posts, or yours. What is that, a straw man sitting down to a meal of red herring?

The last video tires are not aired down. It clearly shows you can't push much snow, and airing down lowers the rig.

LOL on the first video, skinniest tires did the best. And they call that deep? They've never chained up with skinny tires.

And you need help when to use lockers in snow?

Pulling hundreds of stuck 4x4's with wide tires and 50 years of snow wheeling and working with farmers who work in the snow 3-4 months every summer is better than bogus google searches.
Again, you asked for the search, not me. You just don't like them because they differ, regardless of reality. The tires are aired down actually, and yes, I've driven on top of four feet of snow. You may even find a picture of it online. You said you (I) can't drive "on top of" snow, it's impossible. Clearly it's not.

https://www.4wheelparts.com/the-dir...MIzZ7D1oyy9AIVNQqtBh06fAuFEAAYASAAEgJRhfD_BwE

"Note that snow wheeling is entirely different than driving on icy roads. On icy roads, you want a narrow tire with a lot of siping and even studs for traction. In contrast, deep snow is best conquered with wide tires that have flexible sidewalls and tread that is open, but not too aggressive....

We recommend airing down further for snow than you would for any other terrain. This lowers the contact pressure of your vehicle and lets the tire spread out on top of the snow. The goal is to float rather than sink. " -emphasis added

http://www.montanaoverland4x4adventures.org/offroading1014x4/airingdownwinter.html
"We often air down to 15 pounds or so for these summer rides. However, on winter snow runs we may air down considerably more. OK...a LOT more. On our trail ride this weekend, we had a good number of people new to deep snow wheeling. That is, wheeling in/on 2-3-5 feet or more of snow.

...I was down to 4.5 pounds of air. That is as low as I go with my tires and only for deep snow. You may find that 6 pounds of air is very good in most circumstances.
" -emphasis added
 
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J0E

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lets the tire spread out on top of the snow. The goal is to float rather than sink
As long as you never spin, LOL.
So you might be right mall crawling in deep snow, I've never done that.

You can quote as many flat earth myths as you like. It's not surprising that most people make that mistake, airing down helps in sand, dirt, rock, and a few other places. But 50 years of actual snow wheeling with 2 different farmers proves otherwise. Where's the tests and proof? We had lots of proof when the mall crawlers came to the farm and couldn't go through nearly as deep of snow as the tall boy F-250's. That's a side by side comparison. Ditto for the hundreds of mall crawlers I've pulled out. And I suppose you'll say the chains don't help.

All the flat earth wide tire in snow is written by guys with wide tires. It's worse than the JLUR is better than the JLR because more JLURs are sold. Tire bias. They have a huge investment in wide tires and they work in snow. But they've never tested them against skinny tires. And if you never chained all 4, you've never been snow wheeling, that's a fact.

This query proves the earth is flat, I'm not convinced.
 

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This is typical of what we did in Montana, Utah, Washington. That's wheeling in snow, not mall crawling. The guy needs chains to make it up the hill.

So in summary, you assert air down is good if you never spin your tires. LOL
How often have you chained up all 4?
 

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So in summary, you assert air down is good if you never spin your tires. LOL
How often have you chained up all 4?
I chained up both drive axles and trailer axles and engaged interlock on Donners Pass during a blizzard. I was hauling large towable and skid mounted generators with smoothbore tanks half full (on a highboy) and almost 80K weight. Do I qualify? I can honestly say with certainty I do not!!

I was scared shitless! After a few miles of steep climbs/drops and sharp winding curves I pulled into a safe area, waited and got behind a snowplow to get out of that mess. Point is that navigating snow is nothing to brag about ones skill or get comfortable with. I know I don't!!



When off-road driving, shift into 4WD Low for additional traction and control on slippery or difficult terrain, ascending or descending steep hills, and to increase low speed pulling power. This range should be limited to extreme situations such as deep snow, mud, steep inclines, or sand where additional low speed pulling power is needed. Vehicle speeds in excess of 25 mph (40 km/h) should be avoided when in 4WD Low.

Pure BS written decades ago and copied in each new manual. That's the same in the non rubicon jeeps that don't have the 4:1 xfer case. As many have stated in this forum, you can hit 50 in low range in a Rubicon.
That is your opinion Joe. I'm of the opinion that there is no reason whatsoever for pushing low range to 50mph. The owners manual rings true today just as it did when it was first written. Why would you use 4wd low over 25mph when you have enough gearing in high range to keep the RPM's and engine torque at usable levels? I'm all ears if there is a good reason for it.

"Note that snow wheeling is entirely different than driving on icy roads. On icy roads, you want a narrow tire with a lot of siping and even studs for traction. In contrast, deep snow is best conquered with wide tires that have flexible sidewalls and tread that is open, but not too aggressive....
That actually sounds like great advice.
 
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