Sponsored

Genesis Offroad Double Battery and ESS 6 Cycle Limit - Anyone with issues?

unsavory

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
603
Reaction score
797
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2022 JLUR XR 2.0T Auto, 2019 JLUR V6 Manual (sold)
Sorry for the delay, I've been a little busy lately. Here is how I wired it all up.

In this photo, you will note that the factory negative cable is actually connected to the cranking battery instead of the accessory battery:
JOeP3Lv.jpg


I flipped the provided negative cable in the Genesis system around, so it could connect to the accessory battery:
a3tCHlc.jpg


I used this automotive relay to tap into the blue wire that runs to the Genesis solenoid. I used this relay that I ordered from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QXDZRD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
6U6mFKK.jpg


XtogLJ6.jpg


I used a fuse tap and tapped into the passenger heated seat fuse, which is ignition switched. You must use a Micro2 fuse tap! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077PBXGKQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
ez3gZA4.jpg


I attached the black solenoid wire to the vehicle chassis ground.
j6EWOCh.jpg


4eJH8DT.jpg


View showing how it's tapped into Genesis solenoid:
L4yOA7G.jpg


Another angle of the factory negative with the IBS sensor and where I mounted the solenoid:
IJLSBZY.jpg


Here is a complete list of the parts I used for the job:

Sponsored

 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Onward4x4

Onward4x4

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nima
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Threads
43
Messages
411
Reaction score
384
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Website
www.onward4x4.com
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler JLU
Occupation
Traveler
Vehicle Showcase
1
Sorry for the delay, I've been a little busy lately. Here is how I wired it all up.

In this photo, you will note that the factory negative cable is actually connected to the cranking battery instead of the accessory battery:
JOeP3Lv.jpg


I flipped the provided negative cable in the Genesis system around, so it could connect to the accessory battery:
a3tCHlc.jpg


I used this automotive relay to tap into the blue wire that runs to the Genesis solenoid. I used this relay that I ordered from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QXDZRD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
6U6mFKK.jpg


XtogLJ6.jpg


I used a fuse tap and tapped into the passenger heated seat fuse, which is ignition switched. You must use a Micro2 fuse tap! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077PBXGKQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
ez3gZA4.jpg


I attached the black solenoid wire to the vehicle chassis ground.
j6EWOCh.jpg


4eJH8DT.jpg


View showing how it's tapped into Genesis solenoid:
L4yOA7G.jpg


Another angle of the factory negative with the IBS sensor and where I mounted the solenoid:
IJLSBZY.jpg


Here is a complete list of the parts I used for the job:

wow... pretty nifty. Thanks for this very detailed instructions.
 

Rploaded

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
546
Reaction score
714
Location
Houston
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLUR
Sorry for the delay, I've been a little busy lately. Here is how I wired it all up.

In this photo, you will note that the factory negative cable is actually connected to the cranking battery instead of the accessory battery:
JOeP3Lv.jpg


I flipped the provided negative cable in the Genesis system around, so it could connect to the accessory battery:
a3tCHlc.jpg


I used this automotive relay to tap into the blue wire that runs to the Genesis solenoid. I used this relay that I ordered from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QXDZRD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
6U6mFKK.jpg


XtogLJ6.jpg


I used a fuse tap and tapped into the passenger heated seat fuse, which is ignition switched. You must use a Micro2 fuse tap! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077PBXGKQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
ez3gZA4.jpg


I attached the black solenoid wire to the vehicle chassis ground.
j6EWOCh.jpg


4eJH8DT.jpg


View showing how it's tapped into Genesis solenoid:
L4yOA7G.jpg


Another angle of the factory negative with the IBS sensor and where I mounted the solenoid:
IJLSBZY.jpg


Here is a complete list of the parts I used for the job:

This is an excellent write up, great work!
 

WhatExit?

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Dan
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Threads
6
Messages
205
Reaction score
212
Location
The 48th State
Vehicle(s)
2020 JT Rubicon Launch Edition | 2021 F350 6.7L
Thanks again to Jimmy for providing detailed info and pics on his connections on the Genesis Dual Battery System.

Another forum member, Spooky (Ed) has provided info on his dual battery system DIY using the Genesis Battery tray
Link: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/genesis-diy-dual-battery-tray-wire-layout.43974/

Some comments:
  • I appreciate they were "courageous" enough to take on modifying their Jeeps and the Genesis Dual Battery system as designed
  • Their approaches are different yet both seem to have been concerned enough with Genesis' system to be willing to modify it
  • It's unclear to me at this time how their approaches differ from each other in terms of performance and which is "better
And finally, I'll again ask/hope that Shane from Genesis addresses the elephant in the room and that's why people continue to talk about and change the Genesis system because of what appears to be an intentional battery drain built into the Genesis system. Perhaps I'm not describing the perceived liability in the Genesis system correctly but the issue is there and Jeep owners are addressing it.

I'd also like to "thank" Jeep/FCA for making their "technological advancement" such that the desire to modify their system and remove the motorcycle battery permanently is causing me and others to continue to discuss modifying our new Jeeps.
 

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
The drain across the solenoid is negligible and is intended so that people get a little extra run time on their devices before the batteries disconnect when the engine is not running. In fact, when I use my jeep as a daily driver the solenoid doesnt even disconnect overnight. Great feature for overlanders, the main target of this product. There is no "elephant", its how it is designed, and much appreciated by people who need the little extra run time on accessories that are connected to the aux battery. Moving the IBS cable is just a waste of time. The Jeep doesn't see two batteries when they are connected it sees one giant battery that either needs charging or doesn't. 95% of the time your batteries will be connected while you are running, it only takes minutes to regain what little the solenoid uses overnight, unless you have unwisely wired accesories directly to the cranking battery that draw power while the engine is not running. The genesis system works very well for what it was designed for and I will absolutely not be modifying mine.
 

Sponsored

Jebiruph

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jerry
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Threads
56
Messages
2,134
Reaction score
2,712
Location
Iowa
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU, 2019 KL, 2020 JT
The drain across the solenoid is negligible and is intended so that people get a little extra run time on their devices before the batteries disconnect when the engine is not running. In fact, when I use my jeep as a daily driver the solenoid doesnt even disconnect overnight. Great feature for overlanders, the main target of this product. There is no "elephant", its how it is designed, and much appreciated by people who need the little extra run time on accessories that are connected to the aux battery. Moving the IBS cable is just a waste of time. The Jeep doesn't see two batteries when they are connected it sees one giant battery that either needs charging or doesn't. 95% of the time your batteries will be connected while you are running, it only takes minutes to regain what little the solenoid uses overnight, unless you have unwisely wired accesories directly to the cranking battery that draw power while the engine is not running. The genesis system works very well for what it was designed for and I will absolutely not be modifying mine.
The IBS measures current into and out of the single battery it is connected to and knows nothing about some giant virtual battery. It has no way of measuring the current into and out of the second battery. This is different than monitoring the voltage of the batteries.
 

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
The IBS measures current into and out of the single battery it is connected to and knows nothing about some giant virtual battery. It has no way of measuring the current into and out of the second battery. This is different than monitoring the voltage of the batteries.
Then why do both my batteries still charge, and charge well?
 

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
The IBS measures current into and out of the single battery it is connected to and knows nothing about some giant virtual battery. It has no way of measuring the current into and out of the second battery. This is different than monitoring the voltage of the batteries.
I mean I can see where you are going. But if IBS is indeed only a current sensing sytem there is a way that my batteries will still recharge, but the answer to that just reinforces my belief that moving the IBS cable is a waste of time.
 

Jebiruph

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jerry
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Threads
56
Messages
2,134
Reaction score
2,712
Location
Iowa
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU, 2019 KL, 2020 JT
Then why do both my batteries still charge, and charge well?
As long as the system voltage is higher than the battery voltage, they will charge. The batteries can still charge even if the IBS is not reporting battery health accurately, but the factory system was designed to use accurate IBS information.
 

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
As long as the system voltage is higher than the battery voltage, they will charge. The batteries can still charge even if the IBS is not reporting battery health accurately, but the factory system was designed to use accurate IBS information.
Wait, i thought we were talking about current? But, with the two batteries connected if the main battery is in a lower charge state the batteries will start to try and level out, causing current flow from the stronger battery to the weaker battery, across the IBS sensor now connected to the aux battery. That current should be pretty close to whatever amount would normally flow across the IBS sensor when connected in the factory configuration.
 

Sponsored

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
And id also like to throw out that the IBS system is a moot point in the first place. We are using batteries that are special purpose, they were not designed for the JL wrangler, and it's charging system is certainly not designed to properly charge them. If you throw a set of odyssey batts into a Wrangler and dont plan on and do some regular charges with a high quality battery charger IAW Odyssey's recommendations, you are just throwing money out the window.
 

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
And id also like to throw out that the IBS system is a moot point in the first place. We are using batteries that are special purpose, they were not designed for the JL wrangler, and it's charging system is certainly not designed to properly charge them. If you throw a set of odyssey batts into a Wrangler and dont plan on and do some regular charges with a high quality battery charger IAW Odyssey's recommendations, you are just throwing money out the window.
And none of that is Genesis fault.
 

Bob Burd

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
341
Reaction score
603
Location
San Jose, CA
Website
www.snwburd.com
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR
The drain across the solenoid is negligible and is intended so that people get a little extra run time on their devices before the batteries disconnect when the engine is not running. In fact, when I use my jeep as a daily driver the solenoid doesnt even disconnect overnight.
The specs for the relay says it's 17.5ohms when energized. With a 12V source, that's almost 700mA of current draw. It's not going to drain the battery overnight, but it's not negligible. Normal quiescent draw on a car battery is usually less than 1/10th of this amount. By design, it will draw down around 5% of the batteries storage capacity before the solenoid disconnects. That could take longer than overnight, but it will happen. This energy is dissipated as heat in the solenoid casing, which is why it gets so hot. In general, cycling a battery like this isn't great, but probably not enough to significantly reduce the battery's useful life. If you use a battery tender, it will keep the batteries topped off and the solenoid connected. That's about 8W of continuous power, not enough to notice on your electric bill, but enough to keep the solenoid cozy on a cold winter's night. I would assume that since the solenoid is rated for continuous use, this shouldn't shorten its life. I understand why they designed it this way (as you said, to allow a little extra run time), but it can appear troublesome which is why some folks have gone to the bother of working around it.
 

WhatExit?

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Dan
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Threads
6
Messages
205
Reaction score
212
Location
The 48th State
Vehicle(s)
2020 JT Rubicon Launch Edition | 2021 F350 6.7L
And id also like to throw out that the IBS system is a moot point in the first place. We are using batteries that are special purpose, they were not designed for the JL wrangler, and it's charging system is certainly not designed to properly charge them. If you throw a set of odyssey batts into a Wrangler and dont plan on and do some regular charges with a high quality battery charger IAW Odyssey's recommendations, you are just throwing money out the window.

I'm glad you weighed in on this thread as the discussion has quicly become even more interesting and informative (to me anyway). I'm happy to see Jerry post as he's been a great source of information including all the ESS battery threads.

You bring up an interesting point regarding charging the Odyssey batteries using a trickle charger. I haven't used AGM batteries before so I'd like to understand this as well. I looked at Odyssey's information on the subject and it does discuss using a charger but I don't know if/when it will be necessary to do that. I read through their info
https://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-002_1214.pdf and there appears to be a number of issues related to this subject including: parasitic loss, how long the battery is sitting without receiving a charge and the amount of charge the battery gets when the vehicle is running.

Per the above link, "Regardless of the application, it is important to make sure your battery does not have a parasitic load; if there is a slow drain, connect the battery to a foat (sic) (trickle) charger that puts out between 13.5V and 13.8V at the battery terminals."

I'd like to learn more about this and if the charger is needed to help maximize the battery's life.
 
Last edited:

JimLee

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
3,465
Reaction score
16,519
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
The specs for the relay says it's 17.5ohms when energized. With a 12V source, that's almost 700mA of current draw. It's not going to drain the battery overnight, but it's not negligible. Normal quiescent draw on a car battery is usually less than 1/10th of this amount. By design, it will draw down around 5% of the batteries storage capacity before the solenoid disconnects. That could take longer than overnight, but it will happen. This energy is dissipated as heat in the solenoid casing, which is why it gets so hot. In general, cycling a battery like this isn't great, but probably not enough to significantly reduce the battery's useful life. If you use a battery tender, it will keep the batteries topped off and the solenoid connected. That's about 8W of continuous power, not enough to notice on your electric bill, but enough to keep the solenoid cozy on a cold winter's night. I would assume that since the solenoid is rated for continuous use, this shouldn't shorten its life. I understand why they designed it this way (as you said, to allow a little extra run time), but it can appear troublesome which is why some folks have gone to the bother of working around it.
I agree, it's a trade off. I accept that the solenoid is drawing down what I consider a negligible amount for the ability to have extra run time on my powered accessories when i'm off road without the vehicle running. 5% of the cranking battery is nothing with the capacity of these batteries, and I'm only using it to crank the engine after it is disconnected. As far as cycling the battery I agree that it's not optimal, but we aren't using these batteries optimally in this application anyway, that's why I regularly charge my batteries using the Odyssey OBC-20A. I do not use a battery tender as most of them do not put out enough AH to fully charge an Odyssey battery. According to Odyssey "In order to achieve the full design cycle life of ODYSSEY batteries in cyclic applications the charge current must be a minimum of 40% of the battery’s 10-hour rating", that's 22 amps for the 25PC-1400 batts. I fully understand that some people don't like the batteries being connected through the solenoid and the resulting amp draw, and they are perfectly within their right to modify it anyway they see fit to do so. The whole reason I even chimed in on this whole thread is that it seemed to be edging toward attacking Genesis as if they somehow mis-designed this set up. I am perfectly happy with the system the way it is designed and if I get a little less battery longevity down the road I have accepted that. If someone can prove that they get years more battery life out of their mod (and/or moving the IBS cable) I will consider it again, but I highly doubt that is going to happen. And to be perfectly honest, in my opinion this is a high level modification and batteries are consumables, if you install dual Odyssey batteries in a JL wrangler and can't afford to replace them tomorrow you probably shouldn't be playing at this level.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 



Top