Genesis Offroad Double Battery and ESS 6 Cycle Limit - Anyone with issues?

[WhatExit?]

So I just wanted to follow up, as I have had a chance to install that relay to ensure both batteries are isolated when the ignition is off. Following Shane's recommendation, I put the relay in line on the brown ground wire connected to the accessory battery.

It does work as expected, but has the side affect of not being able to use the GScreen to monitor battery voltage when the vehicle is off, which is kind of a bummer. So I'm going to look at moving the relay to use one of the power wires connected to the isolator solenoid instead. @Genesis Offroad, any advice on whether it would be a bad idea to do this? Or have any better ideas how to do this and also be able to use the GScreen when the ignition is off?

Result: The batteries no longer drain themselves due to the solenoid drawing 750 milliamps overnight. My accessory battery remains at a constant 12.9 volts when not being used, as expected. And my starting battery is a healthy 12.8 volts every morning.

Complications: Now that my accessory battery is held at the correct voltage, there is an unintended negative side affect related to the IBS being connected to the wrong battery. The IBS will always read 12.9 volts from the accessory battery, even if the cranking battery has been drawn down. This means the alternator will never go into the higher charge profiles. And it sits at 12.9 volts for most of my drive to and from work every day.

If my starter battery were to get depleted, it would not charge back up properly due to the IBS being connected to a full battery all of the time during day to day commuting activities.

So I'm definitely going to move the IBS to the cranking battery as my next step, to resolve this issue.

Thanks Jimmy for working through this. If I understand what you're doing and the results (not likely I really understand it) I look forward to what you find once you've moved the relay to one of the wires connected to the isolator solenoid.

I don't plan on running the Genesis GScreen so perhaps that fact and your modification will be "the solution."

I do hope @Genesis Offroad not only chimes in here but also determines if/how they'll change their wiring for these Jeeps.

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[unsavory]

Success! I had a chance to move the entire factory negative cable with the IBS sensor over to the cranking battery, so the IBS is now on the correct battery. And then moved the ignition switched relay from the brown Genesis ground wire, and instead placed it inline on the blue wire connected to the battery isolator.

I am now able to monitor both battery voltages all the time, even with the ignition off. The ignition still keeps the batteries isolated when the car is off, and the IBS sensor is now on the correct battery (cranking battery).

I'll report back after I've had a chance to drive and monitor it a bit to make sure things are working smoothly.

 

[pangmaster]

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with this. I don’t yet have the Genesis kit but it is on the short list of things to do. I hate the ESS and leave it disabled, but all of this info helps me to understand how it all works.

 

[WhatExit?]

Success! I had a chance to move the entire factory negative cable with the IBS sensor over to the cranking battery, so the IBS is now on the correct battery. And then moved the ignition switched relay from the brown Genesis ground wire, and instead placed it inline on the blue wire connected to the battery isolator.

I am now able to monitor both battery voltages all the time, even with the ignition off. The ignition still keeps the batteries isolated when the car is off, and the IBS sensor is now on the correct battery (cranking battery).

I'll report back after I've had a chance to drive and monitor it a bit to make sure things are working smoothly.

Looks like you've got this figured out - thanks again Jimmy! Now my hope is that @Genesis Offroad responds to your thread and tells us if that's how they recommend their dual battery system be configured. And if they don't recommend it we'd all like to know why.

 

[tonygiotta]

Some great updates in this thread since I last checked in! I typically have ESS turned off, but nice to see there are some options developing should I choose to run it again. I've been happy with my Genesis system thus far and am excited to finally start hooking some accessories up to it this week!

 

[Onward4x4]

Success! I had a chance to move the entire factory negative cable with the IBS sensor over to the cranking battery, so the IBS is now on the correct battery. And then moved the ignition switched relay from the brown Genesis ground wire, and instead placed it inline on the blue wire connected to the battery isolator.

I am now able to monitor both battery voltages all the time, even with the ignition off. The ignition still keeps the batteries isolated when the car is off, and the IBS sensor is now on the correct battery (cranking battery).

I'll report back after I've had a chance to drive and monitor it a bit to make sure things are working smoothly.

And the ESS now works as designed?

 

[Onward4x4]

Success! I had a chance to move the entire factory negative cable with the IBS sensor over to the cranking battery, so the IBS is now on the correct battery. And then moved the ignition switched relay from the brown Genesis ground wire, and instead placed it inline on the blue wire connected to the battery isolator.

I am now able to monitor both battery voltages all the time, even with the ignition off. The ignition still keeps the batteries isolated when the car is off, and the IBS sensor is now on the correct battery (cranking battery).

I'll report back after I've had a chance to drive and monitor it a bit to make sure things are working smoothly.

Also... is it possible to have a "how to" video or photo series to know what exactly you have done? I am really curious...

 

[unsavory]

And the ESS now works as designed?

No, the intent of the changes I made was not to get ESS working again.

The reason I put the relay in place was to prevent the smart isolator solenoid from draining 30% off the top of the batteries every night. And the reason I moved the IBS sensor to the cranking battery was to ensure the charging system will adequately charge the cranking battery after startup, since reading the voltage off the accessory battery will give a false positive on battery voltage.

In order to solve the ESS issue, you will need to do a custom wiring job as outlined by @SpookyXJ in this thread: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/genesis-diy-dual-battery-tray-wire-layout.43974/

I have not gone through the trouble of doing this yet.

 

[WhatExit?]

Looks like you've got this figured out - thanks again Jimmy! Now my hope is that @Genesis Offroad responds to your thread and tells us if that's how they recommend their dual battery system be configured. And if they don't recommend it we'd all like to know why.

I’m ready to buy a Genesis Dual Battery system however, until I see Shane’s response to Jimmy’s posts, I’m not comfortable spending all this money when the market has identified an issue (dual battery drain) and a fix.

Am I right to be concerned and expect a response from @Genesis Offroad before taking the plunge and spending all this money on their Dual Battery kit and batteries?

 

[bkjolly]

I’m ready to buy a Genesis Dual Battery system however, until I see Shane’s response to Jimmy’s posts, I’m not comfortable spending all this money when the market has identified an issue (dual battery drain) and a fix.

Am I right to be concerned and expect a response from @Genesis Offroad before taking the plunge and spending all this money on their Dual Battery kit and batteries?

You're right to be concerned about any Product you buy however I personally would rather have the dual battery kit as a safe guard on my added accessories than just the stock backup battery. At the very least you know your Jeep will start in the morning.

 

[Genesis Offroad]

Success! I had a chance to move the entire factory negative cable with the IBS sensor over to the cranking battery, so the IBS is now on the correct battery. And then moved the ignition switched relay from the brown Genesis ground wire, and instead placed it inline on the blue wire connected to the battery isolator.

I am now able to monitor both battery voltages all the time, even with the ignition off. The ignition still keeps the batteries isolated when the car is off, and the IBS sensor is now on the correct battery (cranking battery).

I'll report back after I've had a chance to drive and monitor it a bit to make sure things are working smoothly.

That's pretty cool! I love to see folks tweaking and customizing our kit, I think it's awesome.
Basically what you're doing here is killing power to the solenoid when the ignition is off. That will cause the batteries to separate immediately when the ignition is off so the solenoid will not be using any current to hold the batteries connected. So yes, this will accomplish that goal.

As far as moving the IBS sensor to the other battery, I have not had an opportunity to test this at all. In theory, what you're describing sounds logical, but I do not want to comment on that further until I have some time to test it in more detail.

One thing to remember is that the smart isolator will link the batteries together in parallel as soon as it sees your cranking battery above 13.2v for 2 minutes. At that point, batteries in parallel will operate just like one single large battery. So, even if all the ideas behind putting the IBS sensor onto the cranking battery are 100% correct, it's still a moot point because we're only talking about 2 minutes here. So I see 2 options here for this topic. First, if that 2 minute delay is something that you still do not like, then just use the G Screen to manually connect the batteries as soon as you start up.
Second, it's probably fine to move the sensor over to the cranking battery and be done with it if that's something you feel strongly about. However, again, this comes with the caveat that this is not a tested or supported configuration, so therefore, if you want to tinker, you do so at your own risk. My official stance is that it's not a supported configuration.

I hope all this makes sense. I'm always happy to continue the conversation. I'm not on the forum every day, so the fastest way to reach me is by phone - 901-214-5337 or by email - [email protected].

-Shane

 

[Genesis Offroad]

I’m ready to buy a Genesis Dual Battery system however, until I see Shane’s response to Jimmy’s posts, I’m not comfortable spending all this money when the market has identified an issue (dual battery drain) and a fix.

Am I right to be concerned and expect a response from @Genesis Offroad before taking the plunge and spending all this money on their Dual Battery kit and batteries?

WhatExit - I can completely understand where you're coming from. Just to reiterate from my earlier post, the smart isolator will separate the batteries when they are at 12.7v for 1 minute. This is by design, so this is not 'an issue' that needs a fix. As I mentioned, we have some customers who want to leave the batteries connected until they drop to 12.2v or even lower so they can get the most run time possible. For example, such as running a CPAP breathing machine while camping overnight. And then we also have a few customers who want the batteries to separate immediately when you turn off the engine, for example, guys who have had a bad experience from getting stranded with a dead cranking battery - they don't want anything touching that cranking battery!

I feel that the design of the smart isolator we use in our kits finds the happy medium in between. 12.7v is still a very high threshold for separating the batteries. Also, remember that all batteries begin to lose their capacity from the day they are manufactured. This is just the physics of how batteries work. So over time, all batteries, regardless of the brand or how much they cost, will slowly lose their maximum capacity. For example, the batteries in our JK are around 3 1/2 years old, and regardless of how long I drive or how many times I charge it, the cranking battery settles at about 12.3v overnight. Is that a problem that needs to be fixed? Does the battery need to be replaced? No, because it still starts the engine perfectly fine every day, and I expect it will continue to do so for a long time to come, and that's what matters to me. The batteries in my Tundra are only about 1 year old (I actually have 3 batteries in the truck), and the batteries in my JL are about 1 1/2 years old, and both of them routinely hold at about 12.8 overnight, but I know they will slowly start to fade just like the JK's batteries did.

My goal was to design a high quality, very easy to install dual battery system that will outlast your vehicle, and meet the needs of most offroaders out there. I completely understand that it's impossible to meet all the needs of every customer, so by all means, if you have specific needs or requirements, feel free to tweak away to your heart's content! Or just start with the DIY version of our kit if you'd like to try your hand at a totally custom configuration.

Hope this helps!
-Shane

 

[unsavory]

One thing to remember is that the smart isolator will link the batteries together in parallel as soon as it sees your cranking battery above 13.2v for 2 minutes. At that point, batteries in parallel will operate just like one single large battery. So, even if all the ideas behind putting the IBS sensor onto the cranking battery are 100% correct, it's still a moot point because we're only talking about 2 minutes here.

I would only caution that if your accessory battery is properly charged, then this is not true. Because the JL will not charge above 13.2 if the battery the IBS sensor is connected to, is properly charged (ie resting voltage above 12.8 volts). The only reason it works as you describe is because the solenoid is draining the battery overnight, and the IBS detects the battery needs to be charged.

I drove around for a week with my two batteries never connecting while my IBS was on the ACC battery, because my accessory battery was always above 12.8 volts.

I only noticed this after putting the solenoid in to disconnect both batteries when the ignition is off. So what you say is true for the standard configuration.

 

[FirstF80InSpace]

Success! I had a chance to move the entire factory negative cable with the IBS sensor over to the cranking battery, so the IBS is now on the correct battery. And then moved the ignition switched relay from the brown Genesis ground wire, and instead placed it inline on the blue wire connected to the battery isolator.

I am now able to monitor both battery voltages all the time, even with the ignition off. The ignition still keeps the batteries isolated when the car is off, and the IBS sensor is now on the correct battery (cranking battery).

I'll report back after I've had a chance to drive and monitor it a bit to make sure things are working smoothly.

Can you post some pics of your final work?

 

[WhatExit?]

Can you post some pics of your final work?

I've asked Jimmy to share his work with us and last week he said he'd write it up and post it. I'm looking forward to seeing it before I buy the Genesis system.

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