Gear whine on coasting after regear to 4.88s. Shop is claiming its a "driver comfort issue" and that it's normal. This can't be normal.

[Odyssey USA]

If it’s the shop I’m thinking of they created a huge headache for my buddy and I when we fixed his axle.

We couldn’t get the roller bearing seal out of the axle housing no matter what, I looked closely and it had what looked like a ring rtv sealant in there, we had to cut it out with a dremel, took 3 hours of fun when it should have been a 45 min job.

I’ve swapped out axles 8 times prior on the JL and have never seen that happen, never seen any type of rtv like material and these were aftermarket we were swapping out.

I know they were late turning my buddies jeep back to him like days late so either they put some sealant in there to screw with him, did a completely dry install which you should never do or didn’t bother to clean the axle out first.

Well, that RTV won’t help transfer heat out of the race/bearing will it. smh That’s some dumb shit there, pardon my frankness.

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[OBJLU]

Are you talking about the shop that OP has his issue or Rebel?

Shop OP has his issue with

 

[Pig-Pen]

Just installed Dana 4.88s on mine and buddys. Zero whine, which is why we wanted to do it ourselves. Too many shop horror stories out there

 

[zeebo56]

Just installed Dana 4.88s on mine and buddys. Zero whine, which is why we wanted to do it ourselves. Too many shop horror stories out there

We did two gear installs and have never done anything like this before. Zero issues and everything was set up the best we could. Working great offroading and around town. @chevymitchell was awesome with helping us with his diy thread and also answering our questions.

It's crazy that professional shops can do a worse job than us random backyard mechanics that rarely do this stuff and don't even have the best tools for the job. We just worked with what we had.

No noises or anything to make us think there is any mechanical issues with our installs. Patterns came out great also. I think the second job on @JLUin818 actually had better patterns than mine which was the first gear.job I had ever done and even then patterns and backlash, etc were all setup well.

After listening to your video, no way would I be ok with that. Sorry you are dealing with this.

 

[jessedacri]

Hi there.

Your pinion depth is 100% incorrect.

There should be no noise.

This is a classic case of a shop not installing the actual Master Kit you purchased.

You can easily cheat people out of a good gear job by simply pressing a pinion head bearing on and putting the new pinion right back in. Look to see if you received a new pinion seal. It'll be hard to see since the dirt/dust shield covers a good portion of it up.

This is why I tell people to make sure they ask for all of their removed parts, including the factory shims when getting gears done.

Now, if they actually installed the full Master Kits like you paid for, then they need to go back in and adjust the pinion depth.

Ask for the removed pinion etch vs the installed etch. Just because they say 0 on both does not mean you can leave the stock shim in. You still need to at least double check the differences between the two pinions.

They need to fix your pinion depth. Backlash on a NEW set of gears should be .003 - .006". You can get away with .005 - .008", but the depth has to be right.

Again... you should not hear any noise under load or decel.

Thanks for this and everyone else's feedback here. I took the jeep back and said that I'd sent a video of the noise around and got overwhelmingly unanimous responses that this was far from normal. They took my rig in and will call me on monday once they take it apart.


I have 300 miles on the gears in this current configuration. Are they still good once they're set up right? I'm just crossing my fingers they're able to properly set this up - I'm not too confident after hearing OBJLU's issues with the RTV as this is the same shop we're talking about, and just hearing the explanations by the shop (everything *but* improper setup has been stated) thus far. They do a lot of regear work so it's crazy that I'd be the only one this happened to? Just an odd situation through and through and I'm crossing my fingers I don't need to spend the money twice and go find a second shop.

Keep you posted on this. I don't want to blow them up on here if they do indeed make it right on Monday but I'm already concerned at the explanations given.

 

[zeebo56]

Thanks for this and everyone else's feedback here. I took the jeep back and said that I'd sent a video of the noise around and got overwhelmingly unanimous responses that this was far from normal. They took my rig in and will call me on monday once they take it apart.


I have 300 miles on the gears in this current configuration. Are they still good once they're set up right? I'm just crossing my fingers they're able to properly set this up - I'm not too confident after hearing OBJLU's issues with the RTV as this is the same shop we're talking about, and just hearing the explanations by the shop (everything *but* improper setup has been stated) thus far. They do a lot of regear work so it's crazy that I'd be the only one this happened to? Just an odd situation through and through and I'm crossing my fingers I don't need to spend the money twice and go find a second shop.

Keep you posted on this. I don't want to blow them up on here if they do indeed make it right on Monday but I'm already concerned at the explanations given.

If I were you I'd ask to inspect the gears with them when they open the differential and take some pictures and post here. I wouldn't trust them to say 300 miles wouldn't damage anything. I'm sure people recommend a 500 mile inspection to make sure things are set up properly because things probably can go wrong in that short of time with improper setups.

 

[jessedacri]

If I were you I'd ask to inspect the gears with them when they open the differential and take some pictures and post here. I wouldn't trust them to say 300 miles wouldn't damage anything. I'm sure people recommend a 500 mile inspection to make sure things are set up properly because things probably can go wrong in that short of time with improper setups.

Unfortunately I'm going on a work trip out to Vegas this afternoon through Thursday - I was trying to get the break-in done in time and return to the shop for inspection and fluid change to then take the Jeep with me, but I ended up being more concerned about the whine that I put a lid on that and rented a vehicle out of pocket for my trip.

I'm concerned enough that I tried to back out of my Vegas gig to be around for this, but it just can't happen unfortunately. I guess worst case is I spend another $400 or so on a new master kit and a couple hours labor from mobile gear installers to get the setup dialed. I just want to be back on the trail, it's been months now since I've had the jeep in running order and it's my only vehicle, but I shouldn't have to chase a correct setup and throw money at it like this.

 

[OBJLU]

Unfortunately I'm going on a work trip out to Vegas this afternoon through Thursday - I was trying to get the break-in done in time and return to the shop for inspection and fluid change to then take the Jeep with me, but I ended up being more concerned about the whine that I put a lid on that and rented a vehicle out of pocket for my trip.

I'm concerned enough that I tried to back out of my Vegas gig to be around for this, but it just can't happen unfortunately. I guess worst case is I spend another $400 or so on a new master kit and a couple hours labor from mobile gear installers to get the setup dialed. I just want to be back on the trail, it's been months now since I've had the jeep in running order and it's my only vehicle, but I shouldn't have to chase a correct setup and throw money at it like this.

Hopefully they will warranty the job and the parts, if they still give you push back then take the cover off and post pictures of the pattern

 

[zeebo56]

Unfortunately I'm going on a work trip out to Vegas this afternoon through Thursday - I was trying to get the break-in done in time and return to the shop for inspection and fluid change to then take the Jeep with me, but I ended up being more concerned about the whine that I put a lid on that and rented a vehicle out of pocket for my trip.

I'm concerned enough that I tried to back out of my Vegas gig to be around for this, but it just can't happen unfortunately. I guess worst case is I spend another $400 or so on a new master kit and a couple hours labor from mobile gear installers to get the setup dialed. I just want to be back on the trail, it's been months now since I've had the jeep in running order and it's my only vehicle, but I shouldn't have to chase a correct setup and throw money at it like this.

maybe have them hold off on putting it back together till you get back so you can take a look at things? might delay you a day from getting the rig back but youd have inspected it first hand at least.

Tough situation for sure.

 

[jessedacri]

maybe have them hold off on putting it back together till you get back so you can take a look at things? might delay you a day from getting the rig back but youd have inspected it first hand at least.

Tough situation for sure.

Gonna see what I can do on that - but I was also thinking of calling Revolution directly if this remains an issue and see what their thoughts are. The shop picked Revolution as I trusted them to put in what they're used to installing. My shop had said they could probably warranty the gears in the event that there's a problem but I'm sure Rev wouldn't like hearing about the circumstances that led to a warranty claim from a shop like this.

The absolute last thing I want to do is become some kind of karenzilla and go down *any* of these roads, but if this is typical for gear work at this shop I don't want others to experience this too.

Man, I should have just gotten a stock front axle, kept it at 4.10s and tossed it on in my garage. The 4.88s feel incredible but at what cost?

 

[zeebo56]

Gonna see what I can do on that - but I was also thinking of calling Revolution directly if this remains an issue and see what their thoughts are. The shop picked Revolution as I trusted them to put in what they're used to installing. My shop had said they could probably warranty the gears in the event that there's a problem but I'm sure Rev wouldn't like hearing about the circumstances that led to a warranty claim from a shop like this.

The absolute last thing I want to do is become some kind of karenzilla and go down *any* of these roads, but if this is typical for gear work at this shop I don't want others to experience this too.

Man, I should have just gotten a stock front axle, kept it at 4.10s and tossed it on in my garage. The 4.88s feel incredible but at what cost?

yeah its tough for sure. I like how my 4.88s are as well with the 37s.

I would assume revolution wont warranty it if the shop was the one that was incompetent. but maybe the shop will make up some bs to revolution to try to get it warrantied, that is if they even care to do that. They might just try to do a better install and try to hide any issues on the gears if they are any not expecting you to ever open the diff. especially with how they have been so far.

 

[chevymitchell]

Thanks for this and everyone else's feedback here. I took the jeep back and said that I'd sent a video of the noise around and got overwhelmingly unanimous responses that this was far from normal. They took my rig in and will call me on monday once they take it apart.


I have 300 miles on the gears in this current configuration. Are they still good once they're set up right? I'm just crossing my fingers they're able to properly set this up - I'm not too confident after hearing OBJLU's issues with the RTV as this is the same shop we're talking about, and just hearing the explanations by the shop (everything *but* improper setup has been stated) thus far. They do a lot of regear work so it's crazy that I'd be the only one this happened to? Just an odd situation through and through and I'm crossing my fingers I don't need to spend the money twice and go find a second shop.

Keep you posted on this. I don't want to blow them up on here if they do indeed make it right on Monday but I'm already concerned at the explanations given.

Please keep in mind that what you're experiencing is absolutely normal. The noise is not normal, but this experience is not out of the ordinary.

It's common to have a good pattern, put the Jeep together, test drive it, and then find out about the coast side is humming 100 miles down the road. This is a big reason why I do 3 to 4 Heat Cycles for my customers before they get the Jeep back. One to break in the Gears properly and two, to find any noises after the last Heat Cycle. I don't slap them together and then just hope everything is right. Perfection, to the best of your ability, is the goal.

That humming/whining noise is letting you and the installer know that the depth is wrong. The more you drive it and rub the coating off the pinion and ring gear, the more it'll make noise.

This means that pinion depth is likely off by .001-003" at the absolute most.

There isn't going to be anything wrong with the gearset. There won't be anything crazy you'll have to replace or the shop will need to replace. I really feel as if they didn't replace all of the components in the Master Kit. The leaking pinion seal right away kind of gives that away. If you don't do the whole kit, it's easy to pound the pinion in the flange and accidentally push the original seal out and then it leaks. If you don't pay attention, the customer will always come back for a leak. You can do this with a new seal, as well, but the installer would be more aware since it would be new and clean.

The RTV does serve a purpose. Dana puts RTV between axle tube and the housing as they press the tubes in and before they're welded in place. This is the only way to keep oil from seeping out of the housing where the axle tube meets the housing. When doing a set of gears, there's almost always extra RTV from the factory that is in the way of installing bearings or shims. If you peel this off during removal, a shop should put some back. Now... the mistake that is made most often, is a shop won't wait for the RTV to cure before slapping everything together. Then you end up with a bearing cup RTV'd to the tube. Again, the RTV in the tube is normal. Shop practices are the failure point here.

The shop could have done everything right and even got a good pattern, but it could've been done more precisely. It's the difference of a thousandth or two. If you do it as perfect as possible the first time, then it's rare to have any noise.

However, the noise does happen... then the shop should go, " No problem, this is not uncommon, we'll make an adjustment and you'll be good to go."

I wouldn't sweat it. You'll be ok, but this shop definitely should have treated this gear job with more attention to detail. If they blame it on a bad bearing, that's always the go to excuse to throw in the new bearing they should have used to begin with on the load side of the carrier or the pinion tail bearing.

Call the shop and ask them to put into writing, on your receipt, the following information:

1. Pinion TQ to Rotate
2. Total TQ to Rotate
3. Pinion Etch
4. Pinion Shim
5. Carrier Load Bearing Shim
6. Carrier Small Bearing Shim
7. Backlash
8. Picture of Pattern (New gearset pattern will always be different than any gearset that's been used, but not by a lot.)

Don't stress. The Jeep and the Gearset are likely fine and an adjustment is all that is needed. The job could have been better, yes, but give them the opportunity to make it right. If they have time to do it twice, they had time to do it right the first time. It's a shop practice, culture problem, most likely; it's not the hardware.

 

[oceanblue2019]

We did two gear installs and have never done anything like this before. Zero issues and everything was set up the best we could. Working great offroading and around town. @chevymitchell was awesome with helping us with his diy thread and also answering our questions.

It's crazy that professional shops can do a worse job than us random backyard mechanics that rarely do this stuff and don't even have the best tools for the job. We just worked with what we had.

No noises or anything to make us think there is any mechanical issues with our installs. Patterns came out great also. I think the second job on @JLUin818 actually had better patterns than mine which was the first gear.job I had ever done and even then patterns and backlash, etc were all setup well.

After listening to your video, no way would I be ok with that. Sorry you are dealing with this.

It's because you actually give a shit, where the "high end pro Jeep shop" only cares about getting paid a premium price to do the least work possible.

 

[OBJLU]

Please keep in mind that what you're experiencing is absolutely normal. The noise is not normal, but this experience is not out of the ordinary.

It's common to have a good pattern, put the Jeep together, test drive it, and then find out about the coast side is humming 100 miles down the road. This is a big reason why I do 3 to 4 Heat Cycles for my customers before they get the Jeep back. One to break in the Gears properly and two, to find any noises after the last Heat Cycle. I don't slap them together and then just hope everything is right. Perfection, to the best of your ability, is the goal.

That humming/whining noise is letting you and the installer know that the depth is wrong. The more you drive it and rub the coating off the pinion and ring gear, the more it'll make noise.

This means that pinion depth is likely off by .001-003" at the absolute most.

There isn't going to be anything wrong with the gearset. There won't be anything crazy you'll have to replace or the shop will need to replace. I really feel as if they didn't replace all of the components in the Master Kit. The leaking pinion seal right away kind of gives that away. If you don't do the whole kit, it's easy to pound the pinion in the flange and accidentally push the original seal out and then it leaks. If you don't pay attention, the customer will always come back for a leak. You can do this with a new seal, as well, but the installer would be more aware since it would be new and clean.

The RTV does serve a purpose. Dana puts RTV between axle tube and the housing as they press the tubes in and before they're welded in place. This is the only way to keep oil from seeping out of the housing where the axle tube meets the housing. When doing a set of gears, there's almost always extra RTV from the factory that is in the way of installing bearings or shims. If you peel this off during removal, a shop should put some back. Now... the mistake that is made most often, is a shop won't wait for the RTV to cure before slapping everything together. Then you end up with a bearing cup RTV'd to the tube. Again, the RTV in the tube is normal. Shop practices are the failure point here.

The shop could have done everything right and even got a good pattern, but it could've been done more precisely. It's the difference of a thousandth or two. If you do it as perfect as possible the first time, then it's rare to have any noise.

However, the noise does happen... then the shop should go, " No problem, this is not uncommon, we'll make an adjustment and you'll be good to go."

I wouldn't sweat it. You'll be ok, but this shop definitely should have treated this gear job with more attention to detail. If they blame it on a bad bearing, that's always the go to excuse to throw in the new bearing they should have used to begin with on the load side of the carrier or the pinion tail bearing.

Call the shop and ask them to put into writing, on your receipt, the following information:

1. Pinion TQ to Rotate
2. Total TQ to Rotate
3. Pinion Etch
4. Pinion Shim
5. Carrier Load Bearing Shim
6. Carrier Small Bearing Shim
7. Backlash
8. Picture of Pattern (New gearset pattern will always be different than any gearset that's been used, but not by a lot.)

Don't stress. The Jeep and the Gearset are likely fine and an adjustment is all that is needed. The job could have been better, yes, but give them the opportunity to make it right. If they have time to do it twice, they had time to do it right the first time. It's a shop practice, culture problem, most likely; it's not the hardware.

The RTV was at the flange end of the axle, they might have added some, still don’t know why and then just jammed it in before it cured

 

[fat_head]

The RTV was at the flange end of the axle, they might have added some, still don’t know why and then just jammed it in before it cured

The "RTV" they (Jeep) use with the pinion seal is half glue, I swear it is. It took a little more effort than normal to get mine out too.

The pinion bearing race was pretty easy with a brass drift and a BFH

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