Full Plug-in Electric Wrangler in 2020!

TexasNate

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Cheaper to generate, maybe. The purpose of the Lazard report is to advise energy producers, but does not include taxes or incentives to end users. For instance, there are federal tax credits and state tax rebates for purchasing PHEV vehicles (Federal up to $7500 and state rebates up to $3500), federal and state taxes paid at the pump (California is around 73 cents per gallon), costs for infrastructure integration, or costs due to limited generation capacities (solar and wind) and storage.





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homerun

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Cheaper to generate, maybe. The purpose of the Lazard report is to advise energy producers, but does not include taxes or incentives to end users. For instance, there are federal tax credits and state tax rebates for purchasing PHEV vehicles (Federal up to $7500 and state rebates up to $3500), federal and state taxes paid at the pump (California is around 73 cents per gallon), costs for infrastructure integration, or costs due to limited generation capacities (solar and wind) and storage.
Ok so throw out the Lazard stats. I agree they can lean a bit liberal, not that there claims are false. What do you say in response to the stats from the IMF? They still disprove your previous statement and they don’t have the same bias as Lazard.

Also if you concede renewable is cheaper to generate, maybe. Then we need to look at the total picture when considering all cost of use. That includes the cost to society of increase health care, natural disasters (both repair and midigation), loss of crop production the list goes on and on. I too love my Jeeps (and not for the MPGs) however that is not to say I am against finding cleaner more efficient ways to power them something we should have been doing decades ago.

Besides electric vehicles = more torque and possibly a dedicated motor for each wheel. They will ultimately be better Jeeps, just as soon as we (collectively) stop fighting the inevitable and start embracing the much needed change. Yes it will be painful in the short run, but not as painful as the alternative.
 

TexasNate

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I never threw it out. Only replied that the report is focused on leveling the cost to generate and not leveling the cost to end users which can be very different equations. I don't think it is liberal or conservative. The same goes with the IMF, except it categorically leans liberal on environmental issues.

Cost to society also apply to so called "clean" energy. Who is paying for the infrastructure upgrades required for everybody charging their cars at home? What happens when it isn't windy or sunny? What happens to the people working in the fossil fuels sector? Who pays to recycle all the lithium batteries?

When the time is right and we are getting closer, PHEV will make sense. Instant torque is good. You have to admit when the goverment is giving you up to $10k to purchase a PHEV, it probably doesn't stand on it's own merit.
 

homerun

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I never threw it out. Only replied that the report is focused on leveling the cost to generate and not leveling the cost to end users which can be very different equations. I don't think it is liberal or conservative.

Cost to society also apply to so called "clean" energy. Who is paying for the infrastructure upgrades required for everybody charging their cars at home? What happens when it isn't windy or sunny? What happens to the people working in the fossil fuels sector? Who pays to recycle all the lithium batteries?

When the time is right and we are getting closer, PHEV will make sense. Instant torque is good. You have to admit when the goverment is giving you up to $10k to purchase a PHEV, it probably doesn't stand on it's own merit.

This will have to be quick as I am out the door for some beer league hockey. First I was giving you permission to throw that stat out, you called me on it being biased and I agreed. Second if I admit that PHEV doesn’t stand on its own merit, what would your response be to the subsidies we have been providing oil and gas for the past 100 year and continue to provide today? Clearly not standing on its own merit either. My point is you can’t bash electric for a sin that oil and gas has committed many more times over. I’ll let you have the last word, unless you have specific questions I think we have debated about as far as we can go and I will return the thread back to the OP or whoever else that might have something to add.

Thanks for keeping it respectful.
 

modeler

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Today FCA announced phev for renegade and compass. 50km ev range. Which seems good compromise.
Be noted, the two achieve 4x4 by gas engine run the front wheel, and e motor run the rear. Battery is probably at where spare tire is now.
I hope wranglers phev will be same.
Adding a driven motor and battery won't be so complicated, but offer way better gas mileage.
 

xjgary

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Today FCA announced phev for renegade and compass. 50km ev range. Which seems good compromise.
Be noted, the two achieve 4x4 by gas engine run the front wheel, and e motor run the rear. Battery is probably at where spare tire is now.
I hope wranglers phev will be same.
Adding a driven motor and battery won't be so complicated, but offer way better gas mileage.
50KM gives it two credits toward meeting China's 12% "Alternative Fuel Vehicle" mandates. With 2 credits, FCA only needs to sell 6% of it's China vehicle as Alt Fuel. Since China adoped a modified version of CARB rules, some US states may have the same requirement. I doubt this E rear axle will be used on the Wrangler unless they use a 2 speed axle (not a new thing) to match the low range in the rear axle. But if so, that would make it simple. Some day they will have a E motor for each wheel like the new Rivian E pickup that goes zero to 60 MPH in 3 seconds and 0-100 MPH in 7 seconds. Range is 300, 400, or 500, depending on size of battery pack.
 

GARRIGA

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I see many of these posts keep referring to full electric. Topic is about a hybrid system where gas is still the main delivery. I’m starting to lean more and more to this alternative. Torque like a diesel. Improved overall economy and no need to wait for an electric charging infrastructure. How it behaves with 37s and carrying gear the only remaining concern.

The 2.0l mild solution was nice but I’m starting to fade away from that. The electric only helps from stop during the first half rotation of the wheels. There are some assistance under roll but the PHEV appears to be a solution for urban travel where stop and go is predominant and getting that mass moving wastes the most fuel. Being this will be a DD and occasional recreational vehicle the MPG does matter and I want a Jeep JL so other more efficient and practical options aren’t preferred. Except for just getting another Durango. Last resort. I love the one I have now but I’ll love a JL more. Might as well roll efficiently.
 
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scramboleer

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I see many of these posts keep referring to full electric. Topic is about a hybrid system where gas is still the main delivery. I’m starting to lean more and more to this alternative. Torque like a diesel. Improved overall economy and no need to wait for an electric charging infrastructure. How it behaves with 37s and carrying gear the only remaining concern.

The 2.0l mild solution was nice but I’m starting to fade away from that. The electric only helps from stop during the first half rotation of the wheels. There are some assistance under roll but the PHEV appears to be a solution for urban travel where stop and go is predominant and getting that mass moving wastes the most fuel. Being this will be a DD and occasional recreational vehicle the MPG does matter and I want a Jeep JL so other more efficient and practical options aren’t preferred. Except for just getting another Durango. Last resort. I love the one I have now but I’ll love a JL more. Might as well roll efficiently.
Plug-in hybrids range in output. Some have small electric motors (like on the plug-in Prius) and others have huge electric motors with a liquid-fueled generator (like on a diesel-electric locomotive). The Volt has a very strong electric motor and can accelerate quickly solely on the electric motor with a 53 mile range. It then has the hybrid system for 300+ miles range of cruising. Something like that would be sweet on a Jeep.
 

GARRIGA

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Plug-in hybrids range in output. Some have small electric motors (like on the plug-in Prius) and others have huge electric motors with a liquid-fueled generator (like on a diesel-electric locomotive). The Volt has a very strong electric motor and can accelerate quickly solely on the electric motor with a 53 mile range. It then has the hybrid system for 300+ miles range of cruising. Something like that would be sweet on a Jeep.
Specific to the JL, I don’t see it getting a liquid fuel generator and more inline with the run of the mill Volt style battery providing 50 or less miles on electric. The type that would appeal to the typical daily commuter. I’d prefer 70 plus but struggle to see where that battery would fit and possibly cost prohibitive to this platform and it’s typical buyer.
 

scramboleer

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Specific to the JL, I don’t see it getting a liquid fuel generator and more inline with the run of the mill Volt style battery providing 50 or less miles on electric. The type that would appeal to the typical daily commuter. I’d prefer 70 plus but struggle to see where that battery would fit and possibly cost prohibitive to this platform and it’s typical buyer.
True. FCA already has the proven system in the Pacifica (plug-in) hybrid. That has 33 miles of range and then ~400 of hybrid. I could seee something like that in a Wrangler. Aero would probably drop the all-electric miles down to around 25 miles. You’re right; they could already adjust the battery size.
 

xjgary

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Plug-in hybrids range in output. Some have small electric motors (like on the plug-in Prius) and others have huge electric motors with a liquid-fueled generator (like on a diesel-electric locomotive). The Volt has a very strong electric motor and can accelerate quickly solely on the electric motor with a 53 mile range. It then has the hybrid system for 300+ miles range of cruising. Something like that would be sweet on a Jeep.
I think that is what we'll see. To sell these in China, which they want to do, they need to have an electric only range of 50 kilomters, which is just under 32 miles, thus the 33 mile range on the Pacifica. China adopted a modified version of California Air Resources Board (CARB) rules, so I am guessing it would help them meet CARB rules as well but need to research this. I hope the range is greater, but I think it will be at least 32 miles.
 

GARRIGA

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32 would likely satisfy most in my area. Unfortunately for me, that’s just one way daily but at least I can cut my gas consumption in half. Price increase has to be justifiable, however, and based on the Pacifica increase I don’t see that moving most Jeepers away from the trust worthy V6. Me either.
 

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