Freedom Winch Line?

[MrMischief]

Anyone more experienced with winch rope than me want to tell me why this is a terrible idea? My first thought was abrasion on the rope, but looks like the production version has got covers to protect the rope.

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[Chocolate Thunder]

Wow.

No. Just, no. Like you said, even though you claim to not be experienced you know more than he does because this is a number of bad ideas all rolled into one. Kudos to dude for creativity and thinking outside the box. Demerits for the numerous false claims about using the correct equipment for winching, and for selling this to people without any testing or certification (which won’t happen as that line is compromised and unreliable.)

This is a bad idea, and it seems to be attempting to “fix” something that isn’t broken. Get yourself a closed loop thimble, some commercially made (i.e. tested and certified) soft shackles and do it right.

Just for giggles, Google “how much does a knot weaken a rope”.

 

[MrMischief]

Just for giggles, Google “how much does a knot weaken a rope”.

What are you thoughts on soft shackles? They seem to be widely used and well accepted, how is this different?

I was thinking aside from just wear on the winch line, using this without a tree safer, as he says you can, will likely damage the tree, right? Sure it looks wider than a metal cable but not nearly as wide as a tree saver.

I don't know, my first thought was "that seems risky" but thought I'd get some other thoughts from people who use synthetic rope. I'll be honest it's only within the last couple of years I started thinking I might be OK with trusting rope, I'm slow to adopt new things and ideas I suppose.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

What are you thoughts on soft shackles? They seem to be widely used and well accepted, how is this different?

I was thinking aside from just wear on the winch line, using this without a tree safer, as he says you can, will likely damage the tree, right? Sure it looks wider than a metal cable but not nearly as wide as a tree saver.

I don't know, my first thought was "that seems risky" but thought I'd get some other thoughts from people who use synthetic rope. I'll be honest it's only within the last couple of years I started thinking I might be OK with trusting rope, I'm slow to adopt new things and ideas I suppose.

Soft shackles are designed and tested and certified for the rated strength with the knot. It’s engineered to be used in that manner. They’re used because they’re safer in every way than a metal bow shackle (D-ring). They typically have a minimum breaking strength that’s several factors if the winch’s capability (10K lb. winch with 30K soft shackle).

 

[bhagen]

I'm surprised as well this is available for pre-order with no certification. He did state in the video that they will be conducting break strength testing (and hopefully other stuff too) but its not great to put it on sale without that for sure.

 

[DavidArmen]

I agree this a no-go.

But

How is this different than some products that are already on the market?

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...line-with-soft-shackle-end-3-8in-x-80ft-green

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

I agree this a no-go.

But

How is this different than some products that are already on the market?

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...line-with-soft-shackle-end-3-8in-x-80ft-green

Guess it wasn’t an “invention” after all. At least this one probably has some engineering behind it. I hope. I still wouldn’t opt for it.

 

[Tpom]

I agree with what everyone has said. Although I don't agree with really anything he indicates in the video, when he talks about it replacing a tree strap....

 

[Gorilla57]

Here's the biggest kick in the shorts......he wants $500 for the winch line. Matt keeps saying that quality synthetic line costs $400 for 100ft.....not sure where he's ordering that. Amsteel Blue can be found way cheaper than that and is probably one of the best synthetic lines available. It can be found for less than $2.50 a foot.

Buy yourself a good fid and synthetic line scissors, watch some videos on knot tying, build your own for $250.

 

[Odyssey USA]

My issues with it are
1. Testing
2. Price
3. That looped end won’t draw up into my spool UNLESS the fact his line is only 90 ft (yes, 90) will make room for it to be spooled up to hide it and not make contact with my winch plate/bumper despite an even spool
4. Tree saver is needed to disperse the load on the tree.

Who needs trails shut down because you got stuck and harmed a tree winching out. WTF...

 

[oldcjguy]

I think you guys are being a little harsh on the guy. I think having the integrated soft shackle will remove one less stress point by not having the hard attachment to a separate soft shackle. While I don't think it's a bad idea, I do have a couple issues with it.

- does not replace a tree saver. Just because it's not metal line doesn't mean it won't tear up a tree.
- you don't always have a smooth endpoint to attach to. Especially when pulling someone else out. I'd rather get abrasion and wear on a separate/replaceable soft shackle than the end of my winch line. (That being said I guess you could still use a separate soft shackle in those instances)
- It also seems like winding it back in will damage the knot if you aren't careful.

 

[Token]

Incorporating a soft shackle into the end of the winch line isn’t a terrible idea, but there has to be a way to replace it. I’ve damaged a couple of soft shackles, and had to replace them, but the line on my winch is still the same one in use. Having to replace a $500 winch line because the soft shackle end got damaged is a bit much.

Using the narrow winch line (yes I realize it’s double the thickness of the line itself) as a “tree saver” will do little in the way of actually saving the tree. I carry 2 proper 3” wide tree savers, which help spread the load and do less damage to a tree trunk.
I have seen a tree saver fail at the stitching on the loop ends once, but that was mostly caused by the user purchasing a low quality strap, and not inspecting their gear.

 

[ML7]

First this will NOT replace a tree saver in any way and is bad to post such false information. I would put this 'hack' into the good trail side repair idea if your winch line breaks and you need it on the trail in a pinch. That 'knot' is a failure waiting to happen, soft shackles are braided, this is just s knot, and not an 'acceptable' way to tie 2 lines together - unless you are on the trail and need a quick fix. DO NOT EVER use ANY WINCH LINE one a TREE without a tree saver PERIOD. This thread is 100% bad information.

 

[Redneck_Jedi]

I subscribe to Bleeping Jeep and generally find his videos informative and entertaining. However, I would recommend that everyone wait and see if this product passes certification before considering it. Also, a Tree Saver would definitely still be needed. Using the winch line alone would cut into the bark of a tree.

 

[Kurt0]

Wow.

No. Just, no. Like you said, even though you claim to not be experienced you know more than he does because this is a number of bad ideas all rolled into one. Kudos to dude for creativity and thinking outside the box. Demerits for the numerous false claims about using the correct equipment for winching, and for selling this to people without any testing or certification (which won’t happen as that line is compromised and unreliable.)

This is a bad idea, and it seems to be attempting to “fix” something that isn’t broken. Get yourself a closed loop thimble, some commercially made (i.e. tested and certified) soft shackles and do it right.

Just for giggles, Google “how much does a knot weaken a rope”.

^this. All of it.

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