Ford Raptor rear shocks on JL!!!

[Moto_21]

I’ve thought about doing something like .010x1.6 .012x1.4 then .015’s, but I’ve never heard of a pro tuner doing that, so I never have. Anyone else done that?

The last shim (.80x.020) is locked in place and doesn’t flex at all. I’m using two .8 shims to make up for the large ones I took off. I wanted to make sure that the lock nut didn’t bottom out before tightening. And also to keep the large thick washer from becoming a rate plate.

I’ve never heard of someone fluttering a bypass shock, but it worked for me. I should mention that I’m going for a very soft suspension that will still control the big hits. Most people would consider what I’m going for too soft.

I try to get any good information out of people that tune shocks for a living, but they are always so damn tight lipped! I did have 1 shock tuner recently tell me that he flutters rebound stacks sometimes, which I never would have thought of. I still can wrap my head around how that would work!

Hah i cant get info either, i just try what i think would work then try again lol. Pirate 4x4 has been kinda handy.
Id lower the face shims down a bit and stack a bit heavier in the mid or high end then?

Oh makes sense on the .08s then, havent been in a fox yet lol

what about a 2x.10x1.6 2x10x1.4 12x1.3 12x1.1 12x95 12x.85

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[Glamisfan]

Hah i cant get info either, i just try what i think would work then try again lol. Pirate 4x4 has been kinda handy.
Id lower the face shims down a bit and stack a bit heavier in the mid or high end then?

Oh makes sense on the .08s then, havent been in a fox yet lol

what about a 2x.10x1.6 2x10x1.4 12x1.3 12x1.1 12x95 12x.85

That shim combo might work. But, I can’t picture in my head how doubling up shims will affect the damping tune, so I try and stay away from them. I only kept the first 2 doubled up this time because the Fox valving chart tells me it is a #105 stack. With a flutter stack, I can get a mental picture of how it will affect the tune.
You’re earlier post about using a 1.1x.008 has me thinking. I’ve always used something like a .8x.006 for a flutter. and usually right under the face shim. You‘re 1.1x.008 would stiffen up the low speed compared mine, but it’s thicker so it will flex more till it hits the next shim. They both probably accomplish close to the same thing, but I bet the 1.1 will feel tigter as far as vehicle handling and the .8 will feel looser?

@AccuTunedJL, ANY shock tuning secrets you could share would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! I think I saw on your website that you are now doing double flutter stacks sometimes! I know you guys are one of the top leaders in tuning shocks and especially for our jeeps. If I hadn’t pissed off my wife by wasting money on off-road stuff for the last 20 years, I would have a set of your shocks on my jeep right now. Please!

 

[Moto_21]

That shim combo might work. But, I can’t picture in my head how doubling up shims will affect the damping tune, so I try and stay away from them. I only kept the first 2 doubled up this time because the Fox valving chart tells me it is a #105 stack. With a flutter stack, I can get a mental picture of how it will affect the tune.
You’re earlier post about using a 1.1x.008 has me thinking. I’ve always used something like a .8x.006 for a flutter. and usually right under the face shim. You‘re 1.1x.008 would stiffen up the low speed compared mine, but it’s thicker so it will flex more till it hits the next shim. They both probably accomplish close to the same thing, but I bet the 1.1 will feel tigter as far as vehicle handling and the .8 will feel looser?

@AccuTunedJL, ANY shock tuning secrets you could share would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! I think I saw on your website that you are now doing double flutter stacks sometimes! I know you guys are one of the top leaders in tuning shocks and especially for our jeeps. If I hadn’t pissed off my wife by wasting money on off-road stuff for the last 20 years, I would have a set of your shocks on my jeep right now. Please!

Yeah im not entirely sure, id think it would probably be pretty close to the same. Lol. I was thinking doubles because they should be lighter than 15s.

 

[Kevin Mojito]

Super jealous you found some Mojave take off shocks, I have been keeping an eye out for some in my local marketplace. I feel like it’s going to be an impossible find.

My first Bypass shocks..... Game changer.... I will post after a little more time with them.

 

[Glamisfan]

So it’s been a few years since I did any research online about shock valving. I searched YouTube and I found an Ohlins shock tuner that’s made some videos in the last year. I watched most of his vid‘s and he has a Lotta good information. Some of it does not apply to us so I just skip through a little bit. This one I’m sharing talks about the clamping shim or the very bottom shim and it’s purpose. I learned from this video that if I were to remove the .800 OD shim so the bottom shim would then be .95 OD shim it would stiffen up the entire stack. I’ve never thought of doing that before but for these particular shocks if I want the face shim to be thin and give me a soft low speed valving I might need to increase the higher speed valving for the bump zone? That’s where I was going when I was earlier thinking about doubling up some of the high-speed shims. Just something to think about.

 

[Glamisfan]

Also, in watching that above YouTube fellas videos, he uses a shock Dyno all the time. To touch on that briefly, someone earlier in this thread said that I won’t be able to valve the shocks without a shock dyno. I disagree with that and here’s why. NASCAR and Indy cars use shock Dino’s. Off the top of my head I would guess that they have about 3 inches of wheel travel. They both can go two hundred miles an hour. I could not watch one of those vehicles drive by me at 200 miles an hour and figure out what direction those shocks need to be tuned. But, watching a trophy truck drive-by at 80 miles an hour with 24 inches of travel it’s fairly easy to see what needs to be done. Also, watching a Jeep drive-by at 50 miles an hour with 12 inches of wheel travel is easy to figure out what needs to be done.

The guy on the YouTube videos does mention flutter stacks in one of his videos and he says he doesn’t understand why people would use them. He goes on to show on the Dino that thick shims with the flutter stack has the same valving as regular lighter stack. I thought that was very interesting. That makes me think that may be a .010 face shim, .012 second shim, and .015 for the rest of the shims should perform just like having a flutter stack?

 

[Kevin Mojito]

Hurry up and learn this crap, so I can ask for help..... LOL

 

[Moto_21]

Also, in watching that above YouTube fellas videos, he uses a shock Dyno all the time. To touch on that briefly, someone earlier in this thread said that I won’t be able to valve the shocks without a shock dyno. I disagree with that and here’s why. NASCAR and Indy cars use shock Dino’s. Off the top of my head I would guess that they have about 3 inches of wheel travel. They both can go two hundred miles an hour. I could not watch one of those vehicles drive by me at 200 miles an hour and figure out what direction those shocks need to be tuned. But, watching a trophy truck drive-by at 80 miles an hour with 24 inches of travel it’s fairly easy to see what needs to be done. Also, watching a Jeep drive-by at 50 miles an hour with 12 inches of wheel travel is easy to figure out what needs to be done.

The guy on the YouTube videos does mention flutter stacks in one of his videos and he says he doesn’t understand why people would use them. He goes on to show on the Dino that thick shims with the flutter stack has the same valving as regular lighter stack. I thought that was very interesting. That makes me think that may be a .010 face shim, .012 second shim, and .015 for the rest of the shims should perform just like having a flutter stack?

Might be the same throughout the range, but a flutter should make the little movements softer, easier to bend one a tiny bit than them all a tiny bit, at least that makes sense in my brain. His videos are very good though i watched them all lol.

 

[Glamisfan]

So, I had a pair of 2 inch fox smooth body 12 inch travel shocks in my garage. I recently did a little horse trading with a local fabricator/shock tuner and had him rebuild and re-valve these for the jeep. I have not put them on and I am not going to use them as they are too long. 31 extended and 19 collapsed. That requires a 3 inch bump spacer which I’m not going to do. I asked him to do a flutter and to set them up so that they rode really well over small bumps washboard chatter and speed bumps but would still take big hits. So I decided to go ahead and pull them apart and see what his valving was. Below is a picture of what he did. I usually run a very thin flutter shim like .006 or .008. He use the .012 same as all the other shims in the compression. In the rebound the first two larger shims are low speed and their normal then he doubled up on the mid speed and he left off the .80 bottom shim which stiffens up the entire stack.

I put the piston on upside down with the compression valve stack that he set up on top of it and bolted it down. Then I used a screwdriver to flex the shims and see how it reacted and what it felt like. Then I took it apart and replaced the .012 flutter with a .95 x .006 and tried it and then I changethat one out for a 1.1 x .006. Both of the .006 shims seemed to be too thin and like they didn’t really affect the stack as good as I wanted it to. The .012 flutter shim did seem to do what I would want the valving to do.

now to sleep on it and figure out what my next shock tune will be?

 

[Glamisfan]

I just ordered 2” Eibach springs that should be here Monday. I’ll put those on before re valving the shocks.

 

[KansasJL]

I just ordered 2” Eibach springs that should be here Monday. I’ll put those on before re valving the shocks.

Any idea how much bump stop will be needed to keep the Eibach springs from coil bind? I’m also curious if they a stiffer then the stock rubicon springs

 

[Glamisfan]

117 lb/in fromt and 165 lb/in rear. Below is a picture of Rustys 2 inch springs which are made by Eibach. I was going to order those last night because those specs work for these shocks but Rustys wanted $75 shipping so it was $350 delivered. The Ibach MSRP is more than Rustys but when I did a quick search for them Tire Rack had them at a closeout price for $105 a pair! $226 delivered! Score!!! I called Eibach yesterday and got all these specs. Luckily they were able to look up the springs that they sell to Rustys and they’re identical as the Eibach branded ones. Also pictured below is 1 inch front .6 inch rear springs. The rear spring extend it is only the same length as the stock rear spring, and I need longer springs because I’m getting 3 to 4 inch more down travel. You can see the collapsed length of the springs and even the two in rear springs at 3.5 inch should require no bump stop to run it. The front 5 inch collapse won’t require much bump stock if any.

 

[Glamisfan]

2” Eibach numbers are E30-51-023-02-20 front
E30-51-023–02-02 rear
same specs as Rustys pictured above.

 

[CptFloridaMan]

117 lb/in fromt and 165 lb/in rear. Below is a picture of Rustys 2 inch springs which are made by Eibach. I was going to order those last night because those specs work for these shocks but Rustys wanted $75 shipping so it was $350 delivered. The Ibach MSRP is more than Rustys but when I did a quick search for them Tire Rack had them at a closeout price for $105 a pair! $226 delivered! Score!!! I called Eibach yesterday and got all these specs. Luckily they were able to look up the springs that they sell to Rustys and they’re identical as the Eibach branded ones. Also pictured below is 1 inch front .6 inch rear springs. The rear spring extend it is only the same length as the stock rear spring, and I need longer springs because I’m getting 3 to 4 inch more down travel. You can see the collapsed length of the springs and even the two in rear springs at 3.5 inch should require no bump stop to run it. The front 5 inch collapse won’t require much bump stock if any.

This is interesting seeing a 2in lift spring that can compress to that small. What do the stock springs lengths compressed and extended?

 

[Glamisfan]

I believe the Rubicon‘s have four different length springs as in each corner is a different length. The right front on mine is 18 inches extended and 5 inches collapsed. The rear Drivers side spring is 14.25 and the passenger side is 15 inches. I don’t see that I wrote anything down for the rear collapsed but I think they’re about 3 1/2 inches collapsed. And I think there’s about 4 1/2 inches of spring space available when the rear axle is on the stock bump stop. Most manufacturers make Dual rate springs so they actually have more windings than a single rate and they wind up being a couple of inches longer in total length than a single rate. A single rate rear spring usually has about seven coils and collapse to about 3 1/2 or 4 inches. A dual rate spring might have 10 coils which puts it at about 5 1/2 inches collapsed.

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