DanW

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I am not trying to be a dick fyi. Just trying to get facts instead of opinion. There are a lot of 'experts' on the internet and I have no idea who the guy you are referring to is.

I agree an engine needs to be built to run E85 reliably, which the 3.6l is. It just needs a proper tune, which now Livernois offers.

I believe there are some engine studies from universities with E85 on the site I posted. Just have to find them.
No offense taken. You can check my nephew's company out at 4pistonracing.com. He's 100% legit. His name is Luke Wilson. You can also reach out to Keven at Oiludder.com. He'll be happy to talk to you and share with you his background at FCA. I've given you a pathway to confirm these guys as experts. That's not the typical internet forum deal. If you just dismiss them without checking it out, well, that's up to you, too. No sweat off my junk. I just enjoy the conversation, that's all.





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DanW

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I'm not the engine builder or expert. Just telling you what he told me. His engines hold drag racing world records and dominate their class.

I'll pass what you said along to him.

Update...he laughed and said ok. He said he stays away from forums because you never get the last word. So true.

Anyway, I'll let you know when he gets the engine dialed in. He'll let us know some specific numbers in terms of boost, compression, hp at the crank and hp at the wheels. Should be fun.

His racing engines are selling like hotcakes right now because they are the best in class. He and his partner know their stuff, even if I lose some of it in translation, due to my own lack of knowledge.
 
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BrntWS6

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No offense taken. You can check my nephew's company out at 4pistonracing.com. He's 100% legit. His name is Luke Wilson. You can also reach out to Keven at Oiludder.com. He'll be happy to talk to you and share with you his background at FCA. I've given you a pathway to confirm these guys as experts. That's not the typical internet forum deal. If you just dismiss them without checking it out, well, that's up to you, too. No sweat off my junk. I just enjoy the conversation, that's all.
I don't have really a dog in this fight. No plans to run E85 at all in either of my cars. Just looking for evidence one way or another in the form of data.

Just to be clear, I am talking about factory flex fuel engines with E85 reliability. Is that what your nephew and the other forum guy are talking about? I get cars that were not intended to run E85 having problems.
 

DanW

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I don't have really a dog in this fight. No plans to run E85 at all in either of my cars. Just looking for evidence one way or another in the form of data.

Just to be clear, I am talking about factory flex fuel engines with E85 reliability. Is that what your nephew and the other forum guy are talking about? I get cars that were not intended to run E85 having problems.
No prob! The original reference was Kevin at Oil Udder, the Pentastar design engineer, made a statement on Bitog that he would never run E85 or use ESS in an engine if hoping to make it last as long as possible. He said this about E85 because in the tests with which he was involved, E85 stripped oil from the cylinder walls and other wear parts. I posted that here, and that started the conversation. I referenced my nephew because he works a great deal with E85, methanol, and I think even pure ethanol, in some applications, and he agreed with what Kevin had said about it being hard on oil, with methanol and ethanol having some similarities in that regard.

It sounds like the conversation got a bit muddy at some point and that's probably my fault for rambling on about it. I just find it all interesting. At the end of the day, I'd like to see my Pentastar make it to half a million miles, but honestly, at the rate I drive it, I may not live long enough for it to get there. Lol.
 

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No prob! The original reference was Kevin at Oil Udder, the Pentastar design engineer, made a statement on Bitog that he would never run E85 or use ESS in an engine if hoping to make it last as long as possible. He said this about E85 because in the tests with which he was involved, E85 stripped oil from the cylinder walls and other wear parts. I posted that here, and that started the conversation. I referenced my nephew because he works a great deal with E85, methanol, and I think even pure ethanol, in some applications, and he agreed with what Kevin had said about it being hard on oil, with methanol and ethanol having some similarities in that regard.

It sounds like the conversation got a bit muddy at some point and that's probably my fault for rambling on about it. I just find it all interesting. At the end of the day, I'd like to see my Pentastar make it to half a million miles, but honestly, at the rate I drive it, I may not live long enough for it to get there. Lol.

I did find that thread and read it. One thing that was asked and not explained is how gas (e85) is getting into the timing chain, cam areas and washing it out. There should be no fuel in there at all. Should not be any in the cylinder walls either.
 

aro

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No prob! The original reference was Kevin at Oil Udder, the Pentastar design engineer, made a statement on Bitog that he would never run E85 or use ESS in an engine if hoping to make it last as long as possible.
Here for ESS LOL

I don't know nearly enough about engines to have a semi-educated opinion on ESS, and the JL is my first vehicle that has it... so it's interesting to hear the take of somebody who knows what he's talking about.
 

DanW

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I did find that thread and read it. One thing that was asked and not explained is how gas (e85) is getting into the timing chain, cam areas and washing it out. There should be no fuel in there at all. Should not be any in the cylinder walls either.
Not sure. I'm no engineer. I'll ask.
 

DanW

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Here for ESS LOL

I don't know nearly enough about engines to have a semi-educated opinion on ESS, and the JL is my first vehicle that has it... so it's interesting to hear the take of somebody who knows what he's talking about.
He did say they put a coating on the parts that would wear most with ESS to mitigate the wear, but said the fact that is necessary bothers him. He was not a part of the development of the engines with ESS, though, so he's going by what he's been told and what he knew they were working with at the time.
 

aro

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He did say they put a coating on the parts that would wear most with ESS to mitigate the wear, but said the fact that is necessary bothers him. He was not a part of the development of the engines with ESS, though, so he's going by what he's been told and what he knew they were working with at the time.
Got it. Yeah, the fact that it's necessary is something to think about... but then, the engine might not last 600k miles, but it might last enough for our throwaway society.
 

viper88

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Cool! A few points:
1) it must be fake news. We all know only Toyota engines last this long. I read it on this very board, so it must be true
2) note the article says the owner changed the oil every 8k. You guys clinging to 3k OCI's are dinosaurs
3) the engineer says turn off ESS, exactly what many of us have suspected from Day1; all those starts having to rebuild oil pressure each time just can't be good
And apparently Nissan too. How about 1,000,000 miles? Honestly I think most new engines should run 200K-300K miles pretty easily with routine oil changes.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/opinio...frontier-pickup-truck-mchenry-county-ringwood
 
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Revolution_322

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Notice its a 3.6 and not a 2.0 ? Not too many fiat 2.0’s making it even into the 200k range.
 

Strommen95

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Notice its a 3.6 and not a 2.0 ? Not too many fiat 2.0’s making it even into the 200k range.
I’m not a turbo fan but cmon.. One was introduced in 2010 the other 2016. Obviously one will have a higher average of miles.
 

DanW

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Got it. Yeah, the fact that it's necessary is something to think about... but then, the engine might not last 600k miles, but it might last enough for our throwaway society.
Lol, yeah, I'd be THRILLED with 300k! The good news is that it doesn't appear to be unusual for Pentastars to make 300k. I might see that with mine, but it will be years before I do. I just don't put enough miles on it to get there quickly. I'd love to pass it to my kids or grandkids and see them hit a half a million miles, though!
 

DanW

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One thing I'd say about these super high mileage engines. We all talk about oil changes, but there is something else to consider maintenance-wise, as well. The air filter. I've seen guys that are religious about changing oil but never change the air filter. I've seen a few of those guys have air filters that looked horrible. Cooling system maintenance is a huge deal, too. My JK gets a flush/fill every 4 years or so. Never an issue. This one will get it every 5. Yes, I know it is rated for 10. I think 5 is long enough and it will buy me some sound sleep at night. If I get lazy or forget, then I've got quite a wide safety margin. I'll do my spark plugs probably around 60k to 80k, as well, if they are 100k rated. A little early never hurts.

Then there is how they are driven. That's probably a whole other thread, right? ;)
 

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