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D60

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Because every frickin' thread on this forum has some apparently obligation to have someone to make a negative comment about ESS regardless of how relevant it is to the subject at hand. I'm so sick of hearing about it. People need to grow up and just press the button 6" from the start button you're already having to press to start your vehicle or pay the 200-some bucks to buy a gadget that will press the button for you. Bunch of snowflakes on here constantly moaning about a system that's fully disabled with one simple button press.
ESS arguably can have an effect on engine longevity, so mention of it in this thread is logical.

Some don't understand why people get upset about ESS. I also have to wonder about those who get upset about those who get upset about ESS.

Whether complaining about the system or complaining about people, aren't you still just a "snowflake" complaining? Just as easily as you can push that ESS button you can click Ignore on users like me?



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DanW

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ESS arguably can have an effect on engine longevity, so mention of it in this thread is logical.

Some don't understand why people get upset about ESS. I also have to wonder about those who get upset about those who get upset about ESS.

Whether complaining about the system or complaining about people, aren't you still just a "snowflake" complaining? Just as easily as you can push that ESS button you can click Ignore on users like me?
Lol, I don't complain about it. I just shut it off. Then I got the Tazer and shut it off permanently. I did, however, like it for fast food drive through windows that are slow. After talking to Kevin, the design engineer, I just let it idle and don't use it even then. No biggie.

I have asked him if the coatings they used to increase durability for ESS would add to engine longevity if you don't use it. I will let you know what he says. I expect him to give a resounding yes to that one. The whole purpose of the coatings is to mitigate wear caused by the ESS, so it makes perfect sense that it could be a real benefit.
 

Malachi

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Because every frickin' thread on this forum has some apparently obligation to have someone to make a negative comment about ESS regardless of how relevant it is to the subject at hand. I'm so sick of hearing about it. People need to grow up and just press the button 6" from the start button you're already having to press to start your vehicle or pay the 200-some bucks to buy a gadget that will press the button for you. Bunch of snowflakes on here constantly moaning about a system that's fully disabled with one simple button press.
This is hilarious I laughed out loud for real. Nice, I love it

What's the cheapest and/or best kit to disable the ESS anyhow? I don't like it anyway, and now that I hear about how it hurts engine longevity, I want that sucker outta there.

As an engineer, $200 for a button bypass feels ick...
 

BrntWS6

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Well, he is an engineer who designed engines and had access to the myriad of tests and data collected over a period of years and millions of miles. I´d be hard pressed to find someone who knows better. But I do have a nephew who builds Honda drag racing engines that run on either pure ethanol or E85. He also is building midget car engines that run on methanol. I will ask him his thoughts on it. He did tell me recently that he runs 15w50 or 20w50 in the midget engine because the methanol is tough on oil. That may be forshadowing agreement with the Pentastar engineer. We shall see.
I would be interested in reading the studies he is claiming. Has he posted any literature of the tests he was affiliated with?
 

DanW

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I would be interested in reading the studies he is claiming. Has he posted any literature of the tests he was affiliated with?
You'll never see those tests or the data. They are proprietary to FCA and any involved OEM suppliers related to them. He was an employee for FCA at the time and would not be able to disclose it. But he can tell you generally what they found, such as E85 causing more wear than gasoline or even E10.
 
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BrntWS6

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You'll never see those tests or the data. They are proprietary to FCA and any involved OEM suppliers related to them. He was an employee for FCA at the time and would not be able to disclose it. But he can tell you generally what they found, such as E85 causing more wear than gasoline or even E10.
Could be 100% true. But without knowing all the details i have to chalk this up to anecdotal.
 

DanW

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I would be interested in reading the studies he is claiming. Has he posted any literature of the tests he was affiliated with?
Btw, my nephew agreed and said E85 is harder on engines, period. He said it is also very hard on the fuel systems. However, it does have some advantages. He said you can run more boost and advance the timing more with it, producing more power. He also said the obvious, that it burns cleaner. Finally, he said it burns cooler, but that this advantage would only matter in a racing engine. It isn't enough to matter in a passenger car engine. Overall, he wouldn't recommend it in a passenger car application.

Of course, he runs around in a Civic Type R, in which he's massaged the engine. He runs gas in it and gets 530hp at the wheels! He's putting a larger turbo on it soon and will run E85. He said at the crank, it will go from 530 to 1000hp going from gas to E85, after tuning it for higher compresson and advancing the timing. He said he's running a small turbo now at 35 pounds of boost. He'll run the bigger turbo (again, on E85) at 50 pounds of boost! I asked him what the compression ratio will be and he said he doesn't know yet, but, "....it will be wild!" Lol, I can't wait to drive this thing! It's nuts as it sits now!
 

DanW

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Could be 100% true. But without knowing all the details i have to chalk this up to anecdotal.
Ok, that's up to you. I don't think info from a design engineer who was in on all the development testing on the Pentastar,, agreed with 100% by a highly successful racing engine builder, is anecdotal. If it was just me telling you, then sure.

Btw, those posts are impressive. But those cars also were designed from the start to run it. And GM did LOTS of testing. Btw, my Dad was a GM engineer. He would tell you that they put tremendous effort into making those engines reliable and durable on E85.

My nephew, btw, doesn't expect to get even 100k out of that turbo setup in his Type R. He'll pull it and rework it before it gets even 20k on it. He said it will start losing power by 20k. Why? Because he's ragging it out with compression ratio and boost, and running it HARD. He said it would go MUCH longer if he left it the way it is, running gasoline. But it would't be as fun or interesting. ;)
 

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I showed those posts to my nephew. He said he's not shocked but said, "I doubt that any of those engines would have made it there without excellent oil maintenance."

He said he recommends his midget engines have their oil changed very frequently, due to methanol's effect on it.
 

DanW

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Btw, he said they recommend changing the miget engine oil after every race, even short heat races. I talked him into sending a sample after a race for a UOA. Should be interesting! I believe their next race is Pennsylvania this week, then they go to New Hampshire. I'll share the results when he gets them. Then we can see some actual data for ourselves.
 

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Ok, that's up to you. I don't think info from a design engineer who was in on all the development testing on the Pentastar,, agreed with 100% by a highly successful racing engine builder, is anecdotal. If it was just me telling you, then sure.

Btw, those posts are impressive. But those cars also were designed from the start to run it. And GM did LOTS of testing. Btw, my Dad was a GM engineer. He would tell you that they put tremendous effort into making those engines reliable and durable on E85.

My nephew, btw, doesn't expect to get even 100k out of that turbo setup in his Type R. He'll pull it and rework it before it gets even 20k on it. He said it will start losing power by 20k. Why? Because he's ragging it out with compression ratio and boost, and running it HARD. He said it would go MUCH longer if he left it the way it is, running gasoline. But it would't be as fun or interesting. ;)
I am not trying to be a dick fyi. Just trying to get facts instead of opinion. There are a lot of 'experts' on the internet and I have no idea who the guy you are referring to is.

I agree an engine needs to be built to run E85 reliably, which the 3.6l is. It just needs a proper tune, which now Livernois offers.

I believe there are some engine studies from universities with E85 on the site I posted. Just have to find them.
 

uawho

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ESS arguably can have an effect on engine longevity, so mention of it in this thread is logical.

Some don't understand why people get upset about ESS. I also have to wonder about those who get upset about those who get upset about ESS.

Whether complaining about the system or complaining about people, aren't you still just a "snowflake" complaining? Just as easily as you can push that ESS button you can click Ignore on users like me?

Great!
Now, I not only have to click the button everytime I start it up... it's up to ME to click IGNORE to stop YOU from bugging me!?


:LOL:
 

TEXGOAT

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Btw, my nephew agreed and said E85 is harder on engines, period. He said it is also very hard on the fuel systems. However, it does have some advantages. He said you can run more boost and advance the timing more with it, producing more power. He also said the obvious, that it burns cleaner. Finally, he said it burns cooler, but that this advantage would only matter in a racing engine. It isn't enough to matter in a passenger car engine. Overall, he wouldn't recommend it in a passenger car application.

Of course, he runs around in a Civic Type R, in which he's massaged the engine. He runs gas in it and gets 530hp at the wheels! He's putting a larger turbo on it soon and will run E85. He said at the crank, it will go from 530 to 1000hp going from gas to E85, after tuning it for higher compresson and advancing the timing. He said he's running a small turbo now at 35 pounds of boost. He'll run the bigger turbo (again, on E85) at 50 pounds of boost! I asked him what the compression ratio will be and he said he doesn't know yet, but, "....it will be wild!" Lol, I can't wait to drive this thing! It's nuts as it sits now!
With E85 you'd need to boost the fuel rate way up. It does have high octane equivalency, but so does water.... You don't need high compression at high boost. Your compression PRESSURE at high boost is very high.
 

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