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beaups

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It’s not “EPA nonsense”...... it’s FCA nonsense. FCA had a choice to make. One choice burdened their customers by not making the switch latching. The other choice burdened Their shareholders by having the company pay a slightly higher cash penalty for not meeting some level of CAFE standards. FCA designed a horrific implementation of the ESS system and then chose to burden their customers with it to save their shareholders a couple of bucks. That is FCA nonsense.

of Course, the obvious choice would have been to build a latching switch (Or better yet, build the damn jeep with an option to not have any of the ess crap) and then simply raise the price of the vehicle by some surcharge amount for those who didn’t want the ess craptastic system. Shareholders pay nothing and the fines are offset by the increase in price For those who don’t want ess.
Semantics, it's non-latching due to EPA penalties/regulations.

How about this - instead of making everyone pay the burden as you proposed, those drivers that can't bear to push a button every trip can spend the money on one of the countless bypasses? And those of us that can push a button that's ~6 inches from the button required to start the vehicle can keep the savings.



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BrntWS6

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It strips oil film from cylinder walls and probably other parts, as well.
Could not find any engine longevity tests with E85. He could be onto something, or I am searching for it wrong. Would be interesting to hear from engine builders or tuner shops that work on them.
 

jdubya421

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Do the older ones knock like these ones do? This is my first 3.6 and first mopar drivetrain for that matter. I love how simple this motor is going from my last Audi S5's supercharged V6, but the fact that audible knocking is factory spec and the other weird quirks this engine has worries me a little for long term.

The 3.6 / auto config was a big sway factor for me. Lots of fun and sporty sounding, even coming from the S5.
What do you mean by knock? More of a tick or a ping? If you crank it up in your garage or go through a drive through and hear ticking it is just your injectors.
 

TEXGOAT

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I did my initial oil change at 1000 miles and put in Pennzoil 0W20. I'll change it again at 3000 miles and put in 10W20. It doesn't get extremely cold around here, and I park in an insulated barn that never drops below about 45-50F.
 

TEXGOAT

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Most engines make mechanical noises. Lightweight aluminum block engines with overhead cams and complex internal cam drives make and radiate somewhat more noise than typical big cast iron pushrod engines ... and those older engines usually have complex accessory V-belt drives and big steel fans that make enough noise to mask what internal engine sounds they produce. Serpentine belts seem to run quieter, and modern A/C compressors seem to run a lot quieter and smoother than earlier ones did. The quietest engine I ever had was a 1950 Ford flathead V8. A close second was a 1954 Ford Y block V8. I've owned a couple of brand new Ford 300 sixes... and they're fine engines... but from day one they all produce a symphony of mechanical noises. You want noise? Get a late 1950s Chevy .... any engine... with a Powerglide.
 
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mwilk012

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What do you mean by knock? More of a tick or a ping? If you crank it up in your garage or go through a drive through and hear ticking it is just your injectors.
Some people have had issues with predetonation knock.
 

Geronimo

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My 2013 has only 160K . Full synthetic every 5k and have never gone over 6 between changes. I can only hope mine does that well. Cause I'm keeping it.
 

DanW

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Could not find any engine longevity tests with E85. He could be onto something, or I am searching for it wrong. Would be interesting to hear from engine builders or tuner shops that work on them.
Well, he is an engineer who designed engines and had access to the myriad of tests and data collected over a period of years and millions of miles. I´d be hard pressed to find someone who knows better. But I do have a nephew who builds Honda drag racing engines that run on either pure ethanol or E85. He also is building midget car engines that run on methanol. I will ask him his thoughts on it. He did tell me recently that he runs 15w50 or 20w50 in the midget engine because the methanol is tough on oil. That may be forshadowing agreement with the Pentastar engineer. We shall see.
 

emptyminded42

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LOL! Why do you care if they don't like ESS? Rabid? [chuckling]

To me the only major flaw to that system is forcing people to turn it off every time they get in their rig. We bought the little device that let's the vehicle remember the last setting and stay there.

When a system causes people so much grief it's kinda easy to see why some people are perturbed by it, for most of us anyway.
Because every frickin' thread on this forum has some apparently obligation to have someone to make a negative comment about ESS regardless of how relevant it is to the subject at hand. I'm so sick of hearing about it. People need to grow up and just press the button 6" from the start button you're already having to press to start your vehicle or pay the 200-some bucks to buy a gadget that will press the button for you. Bunch of snowflakes on here constantly moaning about a system that's fully disabled with one simple button press.
 

Rodeoflyer

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It's not about oil.. you either get a good motor or you don't..luck of the draw.
 

blnewt

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Because every frickin' thread on this forum has some apparently obligation to have someone to make a negative comment about ESS regardless of how relevant it is to the subject at hand. I'm so sick of hearing about it. People need to grow up and just press the button 6" from the start button you're already having to press to start your vehicle or pay the 200-some bucks to buy a gadget that will press the button for you. Bunch of snowflakes on here constantly moaning about a system that's fully disabled with one simple button press.
Agree it's a simple process to just push the button, but there are a lot of associated parts w/ the ESS system.

It would be ideal to have it as an option so those of us that just want an old-school motor that just runs when you want it and off when you don't wouldn't have to pay for the additional parts. Or worry about issues w/ that system after the warranty is up, or ongoing issues that some here have had happen.

I don't mind pushing that button at every startup, but wish it was a box I could've checked when I ordered :)
 

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