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Dagwood

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https://www.thedrive.com/news/34672...s-chrysler-pentastar-v6-is-after-626000-miles

Check Out How Surprisingly Durable This Chrysler Pentastar V6 Is After 626,000 Miles
See how important maintenance really is.

When you think of reliable engines, something with small displacement, four cylinders, and produced by a foreign automaker probably comes to mind. Hell, just about anything would ring a bell for me before a V6 Chrysler engine. But, as one mechanic who tore down a 626,000-mile Pentastar 3.6-liter will show you, it's (almost) always the ones you least expect.

It all starts with the once-beating heart of a 2014 Ram Promaster. The cargo van—which has enough miles on the odometer to account for at least one round trip to Earth's moon and back—finally bit the dust after a long six years on the road. During that time, the Promaster accumulated roughly 285 miles per day of travels until the six-cylinder powerplant finally experienced a failure that warranted an engine-out service.

According to the owner's YouTube video, the van began running rough and throwing codes related to engine timing. When he pulled the engine, he decided to dig a bit deeper into the failure and determine how the motor held up during its long life. The result is nothing short of surprising.



After a bit of investigation, the owner discovered that the failure was indeed related to the Pentastar's timing. The plastic chain guides broke down over time and the tensioners had outlived their service life. As a result, the motor appeared to have jumped timing.

But that appears to have been the only large failure that occurred. The oil pump was still in excellent condition, the cylinder walls still showed the factory crosshatching and even the rod bearings appeared to have some life left before wearing though the outer-most layer of alloy. Still, the owner claimed that the Pentastar didn't burn oil and ran smooth until the day it, well, didn't.

So what's the owner's secret? As you may have guessed: maintenance. He changed the vehicle's oil every 8,000 miles (though he did admit going over on some rare circumstances) using only Valvoline or Mobil1 lubricants.

But perhaps even more important, the longevity speaks to the reliability of some modern engines, especially one which Chrysler says has the "hallmarks of an enduring icon"—meaning it probably won't be going anywhere anytime soon.



As controversial as the platform may be, the Pentastar is immensely popular within Chrysler's lineup. With more than 10 million units built since the motor's introduction in 2011 between Fiat Chrysler's Trenton South, Saltillo South and Mack Engine plants, the Pentastar has found life in 22 different vehicles—whether it be in 3.0-liter, 3.2-liter, or 3.6-liter configurations (the last being the most widely used). Even today, you can buy a brand new Chrysler 300, Chrysler Pacifica, Jeep Gladiator, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ram 1500, or many other FCA vehicles with one of these bad boys under the hood.

If you paid for the whole car, you might as well use the whole car—especially if it's going to last long enough to take you around the entire globe 25 times.



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DanW

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Can´t wait to read it! I' have seen them with over 300k on them, but nothing like that. I´m keeping mine for a long, long time, but at the rate I put miles on it, it would be 50 years old or more and I will not be around to see it get there! Lol!

Thanks for sharing!
 

DanW

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Wow, impressive that the only thing stopping it were the timing chain guides! I think Iḿ going to just keep running my oil changes according to the oil life monitor. It will get me between 7500 and 8k miles. Sounds like they were running cheap bulk oil, so a good synthetic ought to handle it without breaking a sweat.
 

Rubi

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Nice to read Chrysler is building an excellent durable V6 engine. I’ve been wondering for a long time, since 2012, what the ultimate longevity of the Pentastar would be.

Time to start a debate, let the rant begin; let’s see a 2.0 make it past 200k. 626k for a 2.0 is a pipe dream.
 

DanW

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Nice to read Chrysler is building an excellent durable V6 engine. I’ve been wondering for a long time, since 2012, what the ultimate longevity of the Pentastar would be.

Time to start a debate, let the rant begin; let’s see a 2.0 make it past 200k. 626k for a 2.0 is a pipe dream.
True, but I think that´s a pipe dream for most engines. That 2.0 is turning out to be a very reliable and dependable engine. Time will tell, but it is off to a good start.

I couldn´t be happier with the Pentastar. It is just a hoot in the JL with the manual, and it sounds great with a Magnaflow exhaust. Puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. It might just make the lifetime warranty I purchased a waste of money. I hope it does.
 

jessedacri

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Do the older ones knock like these ones do? This is my first 3.6 and first mopar drivetrain for that matter. I love how simple this motor is going from my last Audi S5's supercharged V6, but the fact that audible knocking is factory spec and the other weird quirks this engine has worries me a little for long term.

The 3.6 / auto config was a big sway factor for me. Lots of fun and sporty sounding, even coming from the S5.
 

twisty

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I have some money I was going to use to put in a high power motor and axles but just cant justify it when the stock one is so fun to drive and has the reputation it has.

I only have 17k on my 2018, all or mostly fun miles since it's not a daily driver. I have changed my oil 4 or 5 times since owning it. It hasnt been below 50% on the clock when I replace it. It's hot here in the DEZ so worthwhile to do so.
 

DanW

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Here is an interesting comment from a guy who claims to be (and from other posts appears to be accepted as) a former Chrysler engineer who participated in the development of the Pentastar. His username on Bitog is Oil_Udder.

¨Nice! As an former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability.....

The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another.

A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+.


Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings.

Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact.

Cheers!

Kevin


PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.¨
 

DanW

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I´ve felt the ESS is just not healthy for the engine or the battery, so I use the Tazer JL to disable it. E85 is no issue, as it isn´t a flex-fuel engine in the JL application.

Bottom line. This remains a world class engine. If even maintained to the minimum required maintenance standards, it should outlast the rest of the vehicle and/or an owner´s desire to keep it. It will likely outlast me, at the rate I put miles on it.

The engineer in the previous quote confirms that not only does this engine love to rev and run hard, but it is good for it. Once you know what it likes, it comes into its element and thrives there.

I think the guy in the video likely ran a good synthetic, as clean as the engine looks. I´m at 33k miles and have a LONG way to go to even the 300k I´d like to see! Love it!

This all really confirms the reason I bought the Pentastar in the first place. But for me, it was more of an educated guess, based upon limited research and testimony from owners. Good to know that at least once in awhile, I can make a good decision. (Not saying the 2.0 is a bad one. It is turning out to be a fine powerplant in its own right.)
 

emptyminded42

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I didn't watch the whole video, but I did see the crank and rod bearings and they look absolutely amazing compared to some BMW engines with 1/5th the miles. Seems like there's no reason anybody with a Pentastar-powered JL should be worried about the engine longevity so long as they change the oil on schedule.

I'll stick to the factory recommended weight and keep an eye on revs to keep them closer to 2k. I usually do that anyway just based on drivability.

Glad to hear running it up in the rev range is good for it - I do that for fun anyway. Disappointed to hear about the ESS - that will only add more fuel to the rabid anti-ESS crowd.

Generally sounds like an excellent engine, but also note in order to get this high of mileage you're gonna be doing a LOT of long highway stints, so those doing shorter trips in town or having longer periods of time between startups could see more wear. I'm impressed and glad my instincts to trust FCA on the Pentastar seem right. Hope the 2.0t is just as durable.
 

DanW

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It is just impossible to wrap my head around 11,000,000 of these things having been produced. Wow! It is still very highly regarded in the automotive industry. Wards gave the BSG version another spot in their annual top 10 production engines in the world list. Not many engines have been on there more than the Pentastar, especially at the age of its basic design.
 

8flat

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Interesting stuff. It's cool to hear from one of the engineers responsible for the design. I'd love to ask him why they didn't make a stroker version of the pentastar to more suit our jeep needs (longer stroke to provide more off-idle torque at the sacrifice of high redline that we don't need anyway).
 

D60

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Cool! A few points:
1) it must be fake news. We all know only Toyota engines last this long. I read it on this very board, so it must be true
2) note the article says the owner changed the oil every 8k. You guys clinging to 3k OCI's are dinosaurs
3) the engineer says turn off ESS, exactly what many of us have suspected from Day1; all those starts having to rebuild oil pressure each time just can't be good
 
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intentsrig

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The JL pentastar is an updated version vs the JK. Higher compression, cooled egr. Wonder what effects those will have for the long term.
 

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