For owners ... how is the awd??

[CTMopar]

So would you say on road in say a snow storm an audi with awd would be far superior to a JL in 4 hi or 4 auto?

I have had 4 Jeeps and more trucks than I care to count. The best vehicle that I have ever had for driving in the snow (until depth bottomed it out) was my 2008 Charger R/T AWD. Next would be my full sized SUVs (Ramchargers and Trail Dusters), my Jeeps would be my last choice for snowy road driving. 2 wheel drive cars excluded.

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[BrntWS6]

I plowed through 2 feet of unplowed snow in the home depot parking lot in 4 auto last year. I testing it out having a bit of fun. The jeep at through it pretty easily.

 

[MudHunter]

Wet clutch is just a CHEAPER way to replace the job of mechanical center differential (Torsen/lockable/LSD) when trying to achieve AWD, thus they are called 4H Auto, not AWD.

Yes it's smooth, I can cornering way faster and under way heavier throttle in heavy rain in my 392 and not sliding a bit. It's heavenly on pavement specially in rain and snow spots. However it's durability and longevity is really unknow.......

Outside of the sticks stabbing the boot on the trail thing, is the durability unknown though? Hasn't this has been offered outside of the United States for a while now?

 

[mwilk012]

Yes, I think so in most circumstances. However, I think it has more to do with the solid axles (slip on one side will get "transmitted" to the other side whereas in a vehicle with independent suspension that does not happen as much). In your usual snowy roads, an AWD vehicle seems more stable. The Jeep is better at getting unstuck.

that is absolutely not accurate.

 

[MudHunter]

You got it. Light slippery snow, AWD. Major snowstorm, Jeep.

I'll take that one step further. I've driven a Jeep in snow so deep that I had a bow wake of snow rolling off the fenders. If I went fast enough (and I could) it pushed the snow over the hood rolling it off the sides of the windshield. Which was both awesome and extremely unnerving. You know you're still moving forward but you can't see a damn thing besides snow moving across the glass.

Not discounting anything you've said thus far, as it's all accurate. But my experience with 27+ years in Pennsylvania winters is that tires matter more than drivetrain for on-road winter driving. My JKU with General Grabbers felt so planted in all but deep-deep snow that it made 4-Hi unnecessary (disappointingly so, actually). 2WD was usually plenty. Our Mistubishi Outlander Sport was AWD. That's a nice system, but it never felt as solid as the JKU, largely because we only ran all-season tires on it. Had we run winter tires on the Outlander Sport, it would have been perfect in the winter, no doubt, but we would have lost some mileage. The ideal scenario up here to make AWD sing is to have to set of tires. I've run Blizzaks and Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires on sports and muscle cars, almost all of them RWD. I spent the last three winters daily-driving my Camaro SS with the Conti DWS, which is a Y-rated tire (up to 186mph), and driving in snow never presented in issue (deeper than I could plow through with such low ground clearance notwithstanding).

You can drive on roads and highways in light snow with any drivetrain, provided you have the proper tires. AWD makes it so people can drive lazily, which is a good thing because too many people lack the initiative to learn the skill to drive in hazardous conditions. Don't fear the slight slips and skids (and don't try to correct every single one). Adjust your speed according to the road feel. Keep a loose, comfortable grip on the steering wheel. Don't panic.

I got the Rock-Trac on my newest JLR to help teach my daughter how to drive in rough conditions by first letting her feel what 4Hi can and can't do without expecting her to always know when to switch in and out of it when driving on variable conditions. I also got it because it's an easier way for me to deal with the same conditions. People who have it seem to like it.

 

[Young04]

that is absolutely not accurate.

I'm talking about power off situations. Jeep does a bad job of going through slush at speed without losing composure.

 

[Reinen]

Not discounting anything you've said thus far, as it's all accurate. But my experience with 27+ years in Pennsylvania winters is that tires matter more than drivetrain for on-road winter driving. My JKU with General Grabbers felt so planted in all but deep-deep snow that it made 4-Hi unnecessary (disappointingly so, actually). 2WD was usually plenty. Our Mistubishi Outlander Sport was AWD. That's a nice system, but it never felt as solid as the JKU, largely because we only ran all-season tires on it. Had we run winter tires on the Outlander Sport, it would have been perfect in the winter, no doubt, but we would have lost some mileage. The ideal scenario up here to make AWD sing is to have to set of tires. I've run Blizzaks and Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires on sports and muscle cars, almost all of them RWD. I spent the last three winters daily-driving my Camaro SS with the Conti DWS, which is a Y-rated tire (up to 186mph), and driving in snow never presented in issue (deeper than I could plow through with such low ground clearance notwithstanding).

You can drive on roads and highways in light snow with any drivetrain, provided you have the proper tires. AWD makes it so people can drive lazily, which is a good thing because too many people lack the initiative to learn the skill to drive in hazardous conditions. Don't fear the slight slips and skids (and don't try to correct every single one). Adjust your speed according to the road feel. Keep a loose, comfortable grip on the steering wheel. Don't panic.

I got the Rock-Trac on my newest JLR to help teach my daughter how to drive in rough conditions by first letting her feel what 4Hi can and can't do without expecting her to always know when to switch in and out of it when driving on variable conditions. I also got it because it's an easier way for me to deal with the same conditions. People who have it seem to like it.

Absolutely, winter tires make a world of difference. To put that into numbers, the 3PMSF rating only requires a tire to have 10% better traction than a standard reference All-Season tire when accelerating in medium-packed snow. That's it. Winter Tires are now achieving up to 130% better traction all around (acceleration, cornering, braking). Worlds apart, yet they all carry the same 3PMSF rating. Luckily they're developing a new winter rating standard now, 3PMSF sucks.

But All-Season tires and drivetrains are getting better. You can no longer make the blanket statement that any vehicle with winter tires is better than 4WD/AWD with All-Seasons. Now you now have to go into details.

The problem with All-Seasons (and the reason why your Mitsubishi Outlander Sport never felt as solid with All-Seasons) is that they result in asymmetrical winter performance. 4WD/AWD with All-Season tires now performs noticeably better than 2WD with Winter tires in acceleration. But also noticeably worse in cornering and braking. This unbalanced performance can be downright dangerous. If you're an experienced enough driver to sense the difference, it will kill your confidence in the vehicle. If you're not experienced, it leads directly to overconfidence and crashes.

I live in high altitude mountains with steep winding roads that get an average of 550" of snow every winter (not a typo). Obviously, I can't play around and Winter Tires are a must-have. I have an AWD SUV w/ Blizzaks and a JLR w/ Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3s. I went through last winter with the JL's KO2's. Hell no, they SUCKED! Absolutely unbalanced winter performance. I will never do that again. Luckily it was a mild winter.

 

[MudHunter]

Absolutely, winter tires make a world of difference. To put that into numbers, the 3PMSF rating only requires a tire to have 10% better traction than a standard reference All-Season tire when accelerating in medium-packed snow. That's it. Winter Tires are now achieving up to 130% better traction all around (acceleration, cornering, braking). Worlds apart, yet they all carry the same 3PMSF rating. Luckily they're developing a new winter rating standard now, 3PMSF sucks.

But All-Season tires and drivetrains are getting better. You can no longer make the blanket statement that any vehicle with winter tires is better than 4WD/AWD with All-Seasons. Now you now have to go into details.

The problem with All-Seasons (and the reason why your Mitsubishi Outlander Sport never felt as solid with All-Seasons) is that they result in asymmetrical winter performance. 4WD/AWD with All-Season tires now performs noticeably better than 2WD with Winter tires in acceleration. But also noticeably worse in cornering and braking. This unbalanced performance can be downright dangerous. If you're an experienced enough driver to sense the difference, it will kill your confidence in the vehicle. If you're not experienced, it leads directly to overconfidence and crashes.

I live in high altitude mountains with steep winding roads that get an average of 550" of snow every winter (not a typo). Obviously, I can't play around and Winter Tires are a must-have. I have an AWD SUV w/ Blizzaks and a JLR w/ Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3s. I went through last winter with the JL's KO2's. Hell no, they SUCKED! Absolutely unbalanced winter performance. I will never do that again. Luckily it was a mild winter.

I'm not a fan of the KO2s for winter. The General Grabber was always my favorite for balanced winter/summer/off-road performance.

 

[Reinen]

Lol damn that sounds crazy

lol, it was. I was so conflicted.

The devil was on one shoulder saying "Keep going, this is AWESOME"!
The angel was on the other shoulder saying "You're going to hit something at any moment"!

A periscope! A periscope! My kingdom for a periscope!!!

 

[mwilk012]

I'm talking about power off situations. Jeep does a bad job of going through slush at speed without losing composure.

Your description of solid axle vs independent suspension affecting slip/traction is just completely wrong.

 

[Young04]

Your description of solid axle vs independent suspension affecting slip/traction is just completely wrong.

Ok thanks for that.

 

[viper88]

Not sure that's entirely true. From what I understand, it's a wet clutch pack than can progressively shift up to 50% torque to the front wheels. Basically like a backwards Haldex that you have the option of locking into 4-Hi.

I have it on my Willys for extra wet grip on the mud terrains (I don't do heavy off-roading) and here's my feedback:
- Yes it works, and is very smooth/seamless
- You can feel the drivetrain loss with it engaged, acceleration is slower
- Steering and general highway tracking feels better engaged (2dr Willys wanders less even on dry, straight highway)
- Mine vibrates the Jeep at a stop in gear and in 4-auto or 4-hi - if you're sitting at a light vibrating, and put it back into 2-hi, the vibration goes away. Not sure if a feature or an issue

2.0 or 3.6?

 

[viper88]

The durability issue is an off-road thing. 4WD Auto has CV joints on the front axle instead of U joints. CV joints are stronger than U joints, however they require rubber boots to keep dirt out of the joint or they will get destroyed quickly. Those boots can be torn by branches/roots on the trail. CV joints are also near impossible to repair or jerry-rig on the trail whereas U joints can be repaired or rigged to limp along. For those reasons most find U joints preferable on an off-road vehicle.

Any idea if the turning radius is larger with the CV joints?

 

[Reinen]

Any idea if the turning radius is larger with the CV joints?

Same turning radius.

 

[Rob97RR]

Absolutely, winter tires make a world of difference. To put that into numbers, the 3PMSF rating only requires a tire to have 10% better traction than a standard reference All-Season tire when accelerating in medium-packed snow. That's it. Winter Tires are now achieving up to 130% better traction all around (acceleration, cornering, braking). Worlds apart, yet they all carry the same 3PMSF rating. Luckily they're developing a new winter rating standard now, 3PMSF sucks.

But All-Season tires and drivetrains are getting better. You can no longer make the blanket statement that any vehicle with winter tires is better than 4WD/AWD with All-Seasons. Now you now have to go into details.

The problem with All-Seasons (and the reason why your Mitsubishi Outlander Sport never felt as solid with All-Seasons) is that they result in asymmetrical winter performance. 4WD/AWD with All-Season tires now performs noticeably better than 2WD with Winter tires in acceleration. But also noticeably worse in cornering and braking. This unbalanced performance can be downright dangerous. If you're an experienced enough driver to sense the difference, it will kill your confidence in the vehicle. If you're not experienced, it leads directly to overconfidence and crashes.

I live in high altitude mountains with steep winding roads that get an average of 550" of snow every winter (not a typo). Obviously, I can't play around and Winter Tires are a must-have. I have an AWD SUV w/ Blizzaks and a JLR w/ Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3s. I went through last winter with the JL's KO2's. Hell no, they SUCKED! Absolutely unbalanced winter performance. I will never do that again. Luckily it was a mild winter.

Any recommendations for a good winter tire for the 392?
I recently bought new wheels and Nitto MT tires, for off-roading, but was planning on keeping the factory wheels and K02s for snow since I know mud terrains aren’t the best for that. But I’m considering selling the K02s and replacing them with something better suited for winter only use after reading a fair amount of comments similar to yours.

We clearly won’t get nearly the snowfall that you do, here in northern Illinois, but for being in the Midwest, I will say that winter here last year, (my first) was, well, surprising. Especially as a transplant from nearby St.Louis. Very different winters despite their relatively close proximity to each other.

I guess it would have to be something that’s available in similar sizes to the factory tires, but TIA for any recommendations.

-Rob

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