JimLee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
3,445
Reaction score
16,265
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
I'm sure it will all be cosmetic. I would like to see them have a Dana 60 upgrade from the factory for the 392"s. I was adding it up , it's going to run me $17K to do the 60's on my 392, if it ever gets here!
At least you have a plan, most will just throw 37's on it until they grenade the diffs.
Advertisement

 

Gee-pah

Banned
Banned
First Name
Andy
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
1,240
Location
SanFrancisco
Vehicle(s)
JL Wrangler
I think we can all agree that FCA's motivation for providing this service lies in part in the lost revenue of not being in this business, and having outside vendors manage this multimillion dollar revenue stream.

FCA's edge here, if not being price or quality of accessories, then might be the idea that such additions could make their way to the build sheet as seen by insurers: something the aftermarket can't claim.

The change though does make me wonder about the degree to which FCA's ability to defend future claims of refusing to warranty Wranglers which have been customized by the aftermarket might be compromised.

If the litigators of those fighting lack of warranty coverage can show that the people who work in this plant are just FCA subcontractors coming from the some business sector that serves the aftermarket, FCA might lose some of its success at defending lack of honoring warranties in court. These claims have historically had traction by FCA's claim that its features/accessories are carefully tailor made and tested by its engineers and can't extend to installation of and by 3rd parties and their wares.

...much as many of us think that you'll likely to getting a better bang for your buck going with the aftermarket version of some product over MOPAR's solution.
 

richardya

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
215
Location
New York
Vehicle(s)
Ford Edge 2011
Vehicle Showcase
1
These companies have real engineers. Does anyone really know what they’re doing when they change suspension and tires and axles etc? The wheel isn’t rubbing so good to go. FCA will test the vehicle with the changes they do. No offense to every member of the forum but you know what I mean.
 

JimLee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
3,445
Reaction score
16,265
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
These companies have real engineers. Does anyone really know what they’re doing when they change suspension and tires and axles etc? The wheel isn’t rubbing so good to go. FCA will test the vehicle with the changes they do. No offense to every member of the forum but you know what I mean.
Are those the engineers that designed the steering, or the electrical system, or the ESS, the list goes on...lmao, no thanks.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
2,619
Location
90505
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
The Superbike manufacturers did the same thing decades ago. That cost my friends their business.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
2,619
Location
90505
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Are those the engineers that designed the steering, or the electrical system, or the ESS, the list goes on...lmao, no thanks.
Jim, good one.

On the other hand, how many POS aftermarket parts have you bought that didn't fit or didn't work. I know I could make a fair sized pile.
 

The Last Cowboy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 2, 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
3,235
Location
San Antonio, TX
Vehicle(s)
2020 JL Willys 2 door
Occupation
Wandering Vaquero
This will allow Jeep to put more options into a delivered Jeep than otherwise would be available. It must leave the factory EPA and NHTSA compliant. Deliver it to the “vendor” and now 4.56 gears can be added without it affecting Jeep’s CAFE numbers and bumpers can be added without it affecting the NHTSA rating. These are just a couple of examples. This should allow a buyer to buy a brand new Jeep from the Vendor, eauipped as desired, vs wishing Jeep would offer those options.
 
Last edited:

JimLee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
3,445
Reaction score
16,265
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
Jim, good one.

On the other hand, how many POS aftermarket parts have you bought that didn't fit or didn't work. I know I could make a fair sized pile.
Oh yea. I agree that there is that as well. And Im not bashing on people for wanting the Mopar option either, its just not for me. I know people like the idea of having factory warrantied parts also, thats cool, your jeep your money. My point is mainly that just because something is factory "engineered" doesn't make it a better product or infalable. I have a slightly skewed view though, a large portion of my job involves herding engineers around all day like cats and keeping them from damaging our customers muti million dollar aircraft. Like any profession there's some great ones and there's some terrible ones.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
2,619
Location
90505
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Oh yea. I agree that there is that as well. And Im not bashing on people for wanting the Mopar option either, its just not for me. I know people like the idea of having factory warrantied parts also, thats cool, your jeep your money. My point is mainly that just because something is factory "engineered" doesn't make it a better product or infalable. I have a slightly skewed view though, a large portion of my job involves herding engineers around all day like cats and keeping them from damaging our customers muti million dollar aircraft. Like any profession there's some great ones and there's some terrible ones.
Jim,
I just retired from a company that makes big airplanes, where I was a regulatory/cert engineer. I spent the last five years just counseling engineers and airlines on how to stay out of trouble with regulators after the company moved their customer service down here to California. No in box, no out box. Just a phone. I really loved that job. But I like being retired better.
 

Gee-pah

Banned
Banned
First Name
Andy
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
1,240
Location
SanFrancisco
Vehicle(s)
JL Wrangler
This will allow Jeep to put more options into a delivered Jeep than otherwise would be available. It must leave the factory EPA and NHTSA compliant. Deliver it to the “vendor” and now 4.56 gears can be added without it affecting Jeep’s CAFE numbers and bumpers can be added without it affecting the NHTSA rating. These are just a couple of examples. This should allow a buyer to buy a brand new Jeep from the Vendor, eauipped as desired, vs wishing Jeep would offer those options.
This raises an interesting point Joe.

To what extent can auto makers "game the system" established by the EPA and produce vehicles in their factories designed to maximize fuel efficiency, and then embellish them at such secondary facilities in ways well know to reduce such efficiency: from higher end alternators to gearing and tire size changes.

I don't know the precise EPA rules. I imagine the factory must produce no less the vehicle than was submitted to the EPA for testing.
 

JimLee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
3,445
Reaction score
16,265
Location
Too damn close to Death Valley
Vehicle(s)
'19 JLU
Jim,
I just retired from a company that makes big airplanes, where I was a regulatory/cert engineer. I spent the last five years just counseling engineers and airlines on how to stay out of trouble with regulators after the company moved their customer service down here to California. No in box, no out box. Just a phone. I really loved that job. But I like being retired better.
Congrats on your retirement. Im on the defense side of aviation and have a few more years to go. I hope you dont take offense at my statements, just my observations from 30 years working in a field that revolves around engineering. As far as Jeeps are considered, given the number of unreliable systems they have put into their products over the years, usually fixed by the aftermarket, im trying to get less Mopar parts on my Jeep not more. I also think Jeep will be so hamstrung by regulations that their customization shop will be nothing more than the same things people already get done by the dealership. Paint, floor mats, tops and other assorted bobbles. I guess we will see.
 

roaniecowpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
2,619
Location
90505
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 14 GMC 1500 CC All TERRAIN
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Congrats on your retirement. Im on the defense side of aviation and have a few more years to go. I hope you dont take offense at my statements, just my observations from 30 years working in a field that revolves around engineering. As far as Jeeps are considered, given the number of unreliable systems they have put into their products over the years, usually fixed by the aftermarket, im trying to get less Mopar parts on my Jeep not more. I also think Jeep will be so hamstrung by regulations that their customization shop will be nothing more than the same things people already get done by the dealership. Paint, floor mats, tops and other assorted bobbles. I guess we will see.
Jim,
No offense taken. It reminded me of a time early in my engineering career where I was responsible to manage a response to a regulatory safety recommendation. I was pissed about a DER engineer that couldn't seem to write comprehendible and responsive summary of our position. I said something inferring my low view of the engineer's intelligence. My boss reminded me that these people (our engineers) were among the top 10% of the intellect in our country. I told my boss "we're doomed". :LOL:
 

The Last Cowboy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 2, 2020
Messages
1,824
Reaction score
3,235
Location
San Antonio, TX
Vehicle(s)
2020 JL Willys 2 door
Occupation
Wandering Vaquero
This raises an interesting point Joe.

To what extent can auto makers "game the system" established by the EPA and produce vehicles in their factories designed to maximize fuel efficiency, and then embellish them at such secondary facilities in ways well know to reduce such efficiency: from higher end alternators to gearing and tire size changes.

I don't know the precise EPA rules. I imagine the factory must produce no less the vehicle than was submitted to the EPA for testing.
Aftermarket conversion companies modify vehicles. Some are contractors for OEMs like ASC, AEV and Shelby. Others are completely in the aftermarket like Tuscany. But the gist of it is that they modify a completed vehicle and it is sold new as being modified. It will come with extra paperwork and usually a decal somewhere on the vehicle denoting which company modified it. They are known as conversion vehicles. There are many different kinds and not all are built to OEM engineering specs. Good Times Vans, Centurions (4 door broncos), stretch limos, hearses, six door crew cabs etc are all built under the conversion provisions. My guess is that Jeep wants strict control over what they will offer through their dealers. Some conversion companies do really bad work.
 
Advertisement

Smart Stop Start
 
Advertisement
Top