FCA lack of quality check

COBill

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COBill. Well put summation, I was fortunate with my 2018 which I ordered, but having owned many new and used jeeps I can attest to their poor quality and inept service. On the bright side, there is a culture which believe, and its true, that the jeep has no competition at this juncture. Which translate, to low depreciation over the years. Just look at old, high mileage prices for old model years. It's even hard to find any on the market.
Indeed, and that's why Jeep QC is so bad; it doesn't need to be better.

Yet another reason things will get interesting if the new Bronco truly is a competitive vehicle.





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Aceman

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I'm sorry for all these screw ups you guys experienced with FCA. I gave up on my dealership the minute I determined their service department as well as their service managers were a waste and incompetent. Unless FCA undertakes a concerted effort to better management their franchises, they will start to lose additional Jeep Wrangler customers. Unfortunately, management only understands the bottom line, and not the feelings of their purchasers which made their product a success.
I agree with this 100%. I was willing to let some things slide in regards to quality control as there is currently no competition to the wrangler. I was willing to put in some work & some aftermarket parts on my jeep to "fix" it.

The problem is, a lot of these vehicles cost over $50k and then you have to sink money into it to get it to drive straight or tighten the steering, etc. For that price, you're in luxury vehicle territory. Every other brand that I've dealt with in this price range has treated me with respect, were apologetic, and fixed any problem I had. They didn't offer up excuses like "we're waiting for a software update", or "it operates as intended". They did their job which was to fix something faulty on an expensive, new, vehicle and they did so in a timely manner. They didn't blame me or an aftermarket track bar or say "oh it's an Audi thing, it's a Volvo thing". The Jeep warranty is almost worthless if dealers refuse to acknowledge an obvious problem with your rig because they don't wanna do warranty work.
 

JEEPIDON

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The bottom line is that Jeep's build quality continues to be horrific because there is no need for Jeep to improve.

Wranglers still sell well and in great numbers, so all improving quality would do is reduce Jeep's profit margin.

Sure, it drives many away from the brand, but there are lots more buyers coming in seduced by the brand image who don't know how bad they can be, coupled with lots of enthusiasts who seem to have no issues with build quality because… it's a Jeep.

I remember when the TJ was released and Jeep literally wasn't completely painting the wheel wells, you could see where the paint would just stop, and the typical comment online was "Geez, just buy a rattle can of spray paint and fix it, you don't deserve to own a Jeep." for what was then a $25K vehicle.

With Rubicons regularly breaking $50K, the attitudes haven't changed.

Basically, Jeep is Jeep, and the biggest question is what would happen if there were ever a truly competitive vehicle in the market. The FJ Cruiser did siphon off some sales when it was available, which is why they have stopped depreciating. The new Bronco looks like it may finally offer competition, we'll see.

Ultimately, however, quality will only rise if sales tank due to poor quality, and that hasn't happened.
I disagree with your depiction "Horrific"! I haven't had any issues with 2 early 2018s (Rubicon and Sahara) and neither have many of my friends. Reading some of these forum entries can make you suicidal if you believe everything you read. 60% of these people should never own a jeep....period.

As far as your profit margin statement...you're all wet. It takes a lot more money doing recalls than correcting issues for assembly. It all comes out of the bottom line.

And honestly, I have a great dealer here in Missouri and had great dealers around the Pittsburgh area so all of these comments regarding incompetent and uncaring dealers is absolutely foreign to my experiences.
However, I understand there is some frustration with dealers and service departments that are not well managed. GM and Ford have the same issues and when you read the forums you'll see the same stuff we see here.



Half the owners making negative dealer comments seem brain dead to begin with. They must find comfort and companionship in negativity.
 

Pourboire

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I disagree with your depiction "Horrific"! I haven't had any issues with 2 early 2018s (Rubicon and Sahara) and neither have many of my friends. Reading some of these forum entries can make you suicidal if you believe everything you read. 60% of these people should never own a jeep....period.

As far as your profit margin statement...you're all wet. It takes a lot more money doing recalls than correcting issues for assembly. It all comes out of the bottom line.

And honestly, I have a great dealer here in Missouri and had great dealers around the Pittsburgh area so all of these comments regarding incompetent and uncaring dealers is absolutely foreign to my experiences.
However, I understand there is some frustration with dealers and service departments that are not well managed. GM and Ford have the same issues and when you read the forums you'll see the same stuff we see here.



Half the owners making negative dealer comments seem brain dead to begin with. They must find comfort and companionship in negativity.
You are one of the fortunate one's, as I'am, regarding a trouble free 2018 Wrangler. But I wouldn't add any disparaging remarks regarding the feelings of others. Who are we to judge what they are experiencing.
 

JEEPIDON

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You are one of the fortunate one's, as I'am, regarding a trouble free 2018 Wrangler. But I wouldn't add any disparaging remarks regarding the feelings of others. Who are we to judge what they are experiencing.
I’m not judging, it’s an observation.
 

Kyanche

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Reading some of these forum entries can make you suicidal if you believe everything you read. 60% of these people should never own a jeep....period.
A lot of the complaints I see are pretty legit:
  • steering issues, varies. Mine steers better than my JK did?
  • bad paint around the hinges (mine has this issue)
  • a really really awful design for the ESS battery power system. I thought the "it's a jeep thing" diehards that detest power windows HAAAATED ESS so I'm surprised if you think it's unreasonable to hate that
    • luckily this can be mitigated (but it costs a lot of money to get a different battery system)
  • the door prop things that eventually detach and make creaking noises
  • the plastic latches to fold down the back seat that are made out of cheap plastic and break really easily

In 2020 a lot of those fall under "if you screwed this up you suck as an engineer"

I wonder what FCA pays their engineering department.......
 

willcasp

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Excusing FCA by pointing out that all manufacturers have issues is just as much part of the problem as FCA creating the problem.

When customers excuse bad quality, they get bad quality.

Holding FCA accountable for their incompetence is the only way to get these issues fixed.

Believe it or not, putting paint on a vehicle that doesn't bubble is a well known and understood manufacturing technique. Designing vehicles with solid axles that don't swerve all over the place, that is settled science as well. Supporting putting the same parts on a vehicle after the delivery that you can put on in the factory, that is well understood as well.
All three things that FCA seems to fail at doing, with regularity.
All are excused by the customer base.
 

HeavyUser

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Excusing FCA by pointing out that all manufacturers have issues is just as much part of the problem as FCA creating the problem.

When customers excuse bad quality, they get bad quality.

Holding FCA accountable for their incompetence is the only way to get these issues fixed.

Believe it or not, putting paint on a vehicle that doesn't bubble is a well known and understood manufacturing technique. Designing vehicles with solid axles that don't swerve all over the place, that is settled science as well. Supporting putting the same parts on a vehicle after the delivery that you can put on in the factory, that is well understood as well.
All three things that FCA seems to fail at doing, with regularity.
All are excused by the customer base.
PREACH!!
 

TekSupt

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So did your dealer do this "custom" job, mating the upgraded sound system to the smaller screen? On the Wrangler at least that sounds like the source of your issue.
 

nerubi

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Excusing FCA by pointing out that all manufacturers have issues is just as much part of the problem as FCA creating the problem.

When customers excuse bad quality, they get bad quality.

Holding FCA accountable for their incompetence is the only way to get these issues fixed.

Believe it or not, putting paint on a vehicle that doesn't bubble is a well known and understood manufacturing technique. Designing vehicles with solid axles that don't swerve all over the place, that is settled science as well. Supporting putting the same parts on a vehicle after the delivery that you can put on in the factory, that is well understood as well.
All three things that FCA seems to fail at doing, with regularity.
All are excused by the customer base.
You sure don't do your research. Aluminum a problem all cars, solid axles problems on those with it. These have been issues (except aluminum) for decades so why did you buy one?
See that Jeep finished ahead of Infiniti, BMW, Honda, Lexus in initial quality? But you'll blow that off as other Jeeps.
 

willcasp

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You sure don't do your research. Aluminum a problem all cars, solid axles problems on those with it. These have been issues (except aluminum) for decades so why did you buy one?
See that Jeep finished ahead of Infiniti, BMW, Honda, Lexus in initial quality? But you'll blow that off as other Jeeps.
I did my research. I had Jeeps the past, and knew what to expect. I also had my suspension system upgraded, properly. My Jeep drives better than I expected a Jeep to drive. I am happy with my Jeep. I am not happy with the interactions I have had with the dealer, nor with FCA. It has been unacceptable.

Jeep has nothing to be proud of in the JD Power numbers. Should we expect to be happy with "We may suck, but we suck less than the others"? 155 problems per 100 vehicles is a pretty sad number. If anything, it shows me how bad the car industry has gotten in the quality department. As long as fan boys keep excusing it, I don't expect it to improve.

Justifying Jeep as ok because "everyone else sucks too" is a large contributor the issue, and I really wish you would stop doing it.

Working with aluminum is not new. It is a known material science problem. I have yet to see aluminum linked to the issue of solid axles causing steering issues. If you have some insight here, I am sure we would all welcome it.

Seeing that most Jeeps do not have issues with steering, that leads me to believe it is not a design issue, and more of a consistency with manufacturing issue... which is a quality problem, and not a materials problem.
 

Notorious

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no competition to the wrangler
This is a point that many people like to state but I respectfully disagree.

Wouldn’t you agree that people with money to spend get to pick and choose how and where to spend their money?

If I have $50k in cash laying around, first please congratulate me (sadly I don’t) and second, if I should chose to spend that $50k on a good or goods other than the Wrangler, those goods or good just became a competitor to the Wrangler. Why? Because I could have spent that money on the Jeep but spent it on something else instead.

If money is a scarce resource and there are goods which the scarce resource can be spent on, technically those goods are all in competition with each other for that scarce resource even though they may be from different industries or not.

Now is there another vehicle as capable as the Wrangler for the price point? That’s clearly debatable. And this is all before the Bronco has been released.

Anyhow, I didn’t mean to single you out, you just brought up a common viewpoint that many people share and I wanted to chime in.

It’s completely okay to disagree with me, I’ll still Jeep wave if I see you. :like:
 

Aceman

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This is a point that many people like to state but I respectfully disagree.

Wouldn’t you agree that people with money to spend get to pick and choose how and where to spend their money?

If I have $50k in cash laying around, first please congratulate me (sadly I don’t) and second, if I should chose to spend that $50k on a good or goods other than the Wrangler, those goods or good just became a competitor to the Wrangler. Why? Because I could have spent that money on the Jeep but spent it on something else instead.

If money is a scarce resource and there are goods which the scarce resource can be spent on, technically those goods are all in competition with each other for that scarce resource even though they may be from different industries or not.

Now is there another vehicle as capable as the Wrangler for the price point? That’s clearly debatable. And this is all before the Bronco has been released.

Anyhow, I didn’t mean to single you out, you just brought up a common viewpoint that many people share and I wanted to chime in.

It’s completely okay to disagree with me, I’ll still Jeep wave if I see you. :like:
I do agree with you from a consumer choice perspective. Most purchasing decisions in life offer the consumer the choice to purchase competing brands. I was over simplifying it a bit. Currently there are no other truck convertibles on the market that can also Offroad competently.
 

JEEPIDON

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A lot of the complaints I see are pretty legit:
  • steering issues, varies. Mine steers better than my JK did?
  • bad paint around the hinges (mine has this issue)
  • a really really awful design for the ESS battery power system. I thought the "it's a jeep thing" diehards that detest power windows HAAAATED ESS so I'm surprised if you think it's unreasonable to hate that
    • luckily this can be mitigated (but it costs a lot of money to get a different battery system)
  • the door prop things that eventually detach and make creaking noises
  • the plastic latches to fold down the back seat that are made out of cheap plastic and break really easily

In 2020 a lot of those fall under "if you screwed this up you suck as an engineer"

I wonder what FCA pays their engineering department.......
My brother has been an engineer with chrysler (and all other names) for over 35 years. He currently is in the RAM interior design division which speaks for itself! I can tell you that he is very handsomely paid and enjoys his work.

The thread isn't about design opinions and theory...it's about quality assurance.

There are numerous postings regarding paint around the hinges that is bubbled. I for one have looked at literally 100's of JL and not spotted one! I own two early 2018's and not a bubble. If you want a real good explanation about this however, Nerubi has posted much on this.

I dislike ESS like most folks but that is not a QC issue. The Europeans are to blame for this stupidity. There are a number of ways to deactivate it.

I don't know what a "door prop thing is".

Plastic latches to fold the seats down break?? I've used them many times and no issue. I asked my neighbor (who happens to be the service director at my dealer) and told me he's never heard of the issue either.

A lot of this forum is just venting, we all understand that. There is many repeaters here that just love to type paragraphs of anecdotal bullshit so they can read it back to themselves.

So hating features, disliking features, and/or wishes of installed hemi engines is understandable but not QC issues.
 

Pourboire

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My brother has been an engineer with chrysler (and all other names) for over 35 years. He currently is in the RAM interior design division which speaks for itself! I can tell you that he is very handsomely paid and enjoys his work.

The thread isn't about design opinions and theory...it's about quality assurance.

There are numerous postings regarding paint around the hinges that is bubbled. I for one have looked at literally 100's of JL and not spotted one! I own two early 2018's and not a bubble. If you want a real good explanation about this however, Nerubi has posted much on this.

I dislike ESS like most folks but that is not a QC issue. The Europeans are to blame for this stupidity. There are a number of ways to deactivate it.

I don't know what a "door prop thing is".

Plastic latches to fold the seats down break?? I've used them many times and no issue. I asked my neighbor (who happens to be the service director at my dealer) and told me he's never heard of the issue either.

A lot of this forum is just venting, we all understand that. There is many repeaters here that just love to type paragraphs of anecdotal bullshit so they can read it back to themselves.

So hating features, disliking features, and/or wishes of installed hemi engines is understandable but not QC issues.
Well put, much food for contemplation.
 

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