FCA just cancelled my warranty because of "aftermarket stuff"

zscooby

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Are we talking about an extended warranty or the factory? Jeep legally can't "Cancel" your factory warranty (in the Untied States) for aftermarket parts, but they can refuse to fix anything that was caused by them (and when push comes to shove, you would have to prove the problem was not caused by the aftermarket).

Did you have the jeep re-programmed for the 37's?
other way around they have to prove that the mod caused the failure



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roaniecowpony

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other way around they have to prove that the mod caused the failure
What you say is true, only if challenged in a legal forum. The dealership/mfr hold all the cards for accepting or denying warranty work. Once they make a decision and dig their heels in, If you want to excercise your legal rights (Moss-Ferguson, other consumer law), it really is on you to take action. You have to ant'e up to play your hand with your time and money.

There's at least a few avenues that I know of to challenge them: Consumer rights orgs like BBB, or local or state AG, or your own attorney. There's probably more. Some states have a Bureau of Automotive Repair. The thing is, nothing is going to happen, even if they are in the wrong, if you don't do something.

As for class actions someone mentioned, I wouldn't be party to initiating one nor participate. I'd get my own suit, if it came to that. The class action was invented by lawyers to benefit lawyers. It's their version of a pyrimid scheme, IMO. Participants (the class) end up with the $19.99 check and the attorney for the class ends up with the $1,990,000 check. Forget about everone else, get your own recovery. Let the state pursue that class action stuff.
 

PullmeSideways1341

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spot on notrious.

thats what is comes down to. and stormin acknowledge both side of the situation. what storming is adding in is that the dealer automatically voided the warrenty when they saw the jl all modded up.

its just an easy way for the dealer to avoid working on any jeeps that are outside the "normal" service like requiring to remove all the aftermarket skid plates vs one factory skid plate just to access the t case. just saying.

my past jeep a 07 gc have gone thru a $h!t fit at the dealer because of aftermarket tires and wheels which are factory size to the stock ones.
so there is a hitch to that - all a service shop sells is time. Every minute spent on working on something needs to accounted for. Subsequently, the shop can view this as a hornets nest where their experience Dealing with FCA informs them they will not be reimbursed from the manufacture if this is caused by modifications.
So is the OP willing to pay the shop rate (+$150 hr) likely more than 2hrs - could be much more. To clearly identify the problem?
If it is manufacturer defect he will be out nothing, if it’s on him - he’d be looking a big bill and the problem would only be diagnosed, not resolved.

Shops operate to get paid for time and when they know that time will be covered they tend to be happy to do the work.
 

aldo98229

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so there is a hitch to that - all a service shop sells is time. Every minute spent on working on something needs to accounted for. Subsequently, the shop can view this as a hornets nest where their experience Dealing with FCA informs them they will not be reimbursed from the manufacture if this is caused by modifications.
So is the OP willing to pay the shop rate (+$150 hr) likely more than 2hrs - could be much more. To clearly identify the problem?
If it is manufacturer defect he will be out nothing, if it’s on him - he’d be looking a big bill and the problem would only be diagnosed, not resolved.

Shops operate to get paid for time and when they know that time will be covered they tend to be happy to do the work.
This is true.

However, the end result is a bunch of dealers that arbitrarily refuse warranty work. Meanwhile, much of the appeal of buying a Wrangler is precisely its ease of customization and modification. Further, FCA loves to perpetuate the impression that Wranglers are highly customizable.

As it sits, FCA is speaking from both ends of its mouth. It needs to establish clear rules for dealers to handle warranty work on Jeeps that are likely to be modified, remunerate dealers accordingly, and honor the brand promise Jeep —and Mopar— makes to its customers.

FCA itself is constantly encouraging Jeep modifications
1590671560488.jpeg
 
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oceanblue2019

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John: Every dealer I've done business with has adopted the philosophy you just outlined. I think it's fair and understandable from both points of view. There are too many "cob jobs" that violate this common sense approach and the result is blaming the dealer and/or FCA. If justified, I'm with you, if not...suck it up and take accountability.
C
I have pointed out one way to help ensure these issues don't happen.

But if my Jeep broke down while out of state I would expect the local FCA dealership to give me a decent service experience and similar to my "home dealership"

So this is not acceptable in my views. A dealer should have a service manager who has his head out of his ass to be able to take a look and reliably determine if the mods are related, or not. If related to communicate clearly why and how to prove him wrong.

The bullshit of lazy dealerships simply saying "mods responsible" without even looking is not acceptable. By you accepting this dealership ignorance you are allowing it to continue. The dealerships that pull this shit need negative reviews posted wherever possible, and to be avoided and all pressure we can to put them out of business or new ownership triggered.
 

TXRubicon

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These are always clearly marked as concepts. All brands show off enthusiast versions of their products. None of these are vehicles you can buy. Bottom line is if you put parts on your vehicle that it didn't leave the factory with, don't expect the manufacturer to warranty it.

Everyone can scream Magnusson-Moss all they want, but that does NOT apply in cases like this. Magnusson-Moss is to protect you from using parts like Fram as an oil filter brand, rather than being forced to use Mopar so long as it meets the manufacturer's standards. It was never meant to allow people to put 37's on their Jeep and expect Jeep to warranty parts that may have been affected by the modification.

A friend of mine wrote this several years ago, but it still applies as much now as it did then.

But the main thing here is very simple: the manufacturer warranties the car as they produced it. Change the car, and the manufacturer is no longer responsible for the configuration of whatever you changed — you are. The Magnuson-Moss Act was not, and is not, intended to cover aftermarket parts that deviate from factory specification. Its intent then and now is to cover things like oil, filters, bulbs — common maintenance items — and preventing the OEM from requiring their captive brand of maintenance part in order to maintain warranty coverage (see §2302(c) for this section of the Act). You can use a Fram or Purolator or Mobil oil filter that’s equivalent to the OEM filter, for example. M-M does not, and has never intended that the OEM can’t void your powertrain warranty if you put a blower on it and pop the motor, or flash an aftermarket cal into the ECM that doesn’t have the OEM cal’s detonation protection strategy, leading to holes torched in piston tops.

Take a look at US Code Title 15, Chapter 50, § 2304(c). That tells you how an OEM can deny a warranty claim or outright void the related warranty, in the event of modification or abuse of the product, damage caused by the consumer, or failure of the consumer to properly maintain the product.
https://www.speedsportlife.com/2011...y-voiding-tsb-really-isnt-that-big-of-a-deal/ if you want to read the entire article.

FCA itself is constantly encouraging Jeep modifications
1590671560488.jpeg
 

PyrPatriot

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These are always clearly marked as concepts. All brands show off enthusiast versions of their products. None of these are vehicles you can buy. Bottom line is if you put parts on your vehicle that it didn't leave the factory with, don't expect the manufacturer to warranty it.

Everyone can scream Magnusson-Moss all they want, but that does NOT apply in cases like this. Magnusson-Moss is to protect you from using parts like Fram as an oil filter brand, rather than being forced to use Mopar so long as it meets the manufacturer's standards. It was never meant to allow people to put 37's on their Jeep and expect Jeep to warranty parts that may have been affected by the modification.

A friend of mine wrote this several years ago, but it still applies as much now as it did then.



https://www.speedsportlife.com/2011...y-voiding-tsb-really-isnt-that-big-of-a-deal/ if you want to read the entire article.
The FTC has lots of good stuff on the M-M Act, for both how it affects consumers and merchants
The full law is here.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title15-chapter50&edition=prelim

Now, having an attorney review all of this and give their opinion might cost a bit, but it at least gives you some basis on making decisions and what risks you want to take.

Nixing the Fix: Warranties, Mag-Moss, and restrictions on repairs
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blo...-fix-warranties-mag-moss-restrictions-repairs

Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-law

PART 700—INTERPRETATIONS OF MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY ACT
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrie...e86a15fd34cf9&ty=HTML&h=L&r=PART&n=pt16.1.700

Rule Governing Informal Dispute Settlement Procedures
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/federal_register_notices/2015/05/150522mag-mossfrn.pdf
 

aldo98229

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These are always clearly marked as concepts. All brands show off enthusiast versions of their products. None of these are vehicles you can buy. Bottom line is if you put parts on your vehicle that it didn't leave the factory with, don't expect the manufacturer to warranty it.

Everyone can scream Magnusson-Moss all they want, but that does NOT apply in cases like this. Magnusson-Moss is to protect you from using parts like Fram as an oil filter brand, rather than being forced to use Mopar so long as it meets the manufacturer's standards. It was never meant to allow people to put 37's on their Jeep and expect Jeep to warranty parts that may have been affected by the modification.

A friend of mine wrote this several years ago, but it still applies as much now as it did then.



https://www.speedsportlife.com/2011...y-voiding-tsb-really-isnt-that-big-of-a-deal/ if you want to read the entire article.
The goal of these "concepts" is to help visualize the opportunity and the ease to customize and modify Jeeps. Period. Labeling them "concept" is simply a legal distinction to allow FCA to cover its *ss.

Besides, often times parts and components shown on these "concepts" end up being offered as factory options and Mopar accessories, further blurring any distinctions.

FCA is free to speak from both sides of its mouth. That is their choice. But anyone looking to buy a Wrangler dreaming of modifying it better be aware that, chances are dealers are not going to want to work on it, no matter if they spent a boatload of money on factory-approved Mopar parts, and had them professionally installed.
 
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Ehmsea

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OP - After its warmed up, curious if you are able to shift into 4wd while stopped in N. That would negate a speed difference at the transfer case and/or Wheel speed sensors. Also curious if you reset your computer with tires at 33" and gears at 4.10 if you see the same issue? If this is the same ratio (4.88 on 37's and 4.10 on 33's), Could you just leave it there?

As a side note, any mod that would have caused this failure would result in him NEVER getting the 4wd engaged. Nothing he did (tires, gears, etc) would change how the computer accepted the 4wd request when cold vs. when hot...sensor vs. mechanical.

Yikes, we all know we are at risk for having warranty work denied when we step into aftermarket mods. But bloody hell, we venture in based on a good faith effort by the dealership to "show" how the aftermarket mods voided the warranty work in this specific case. GOOD FAITH effort...

As others have pointed out, I fully expect to have my Uconnect fixed under warranty regardless of my lift, 37s, etc...
also, wiper motors, rear defroster, steering damper recall...

Good luck!
 

roaniecowpony

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From my warranty:
3.6 Other Exclusions
Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing
damage or conditions caused by any of the following:
• Fire or accident;
• Abuse or negligence;
• Misuse — for example, driving over curbs or over-
loading;
• Tampering with the emission systems, or with a part
that could affect the emission systems;
• Use of used parts, even if they were originally
supplied by FCA US (however, authorized FCA US /
MOPAR remanufactured parts are covered);
• Windshield or rear window damage from external
objects;
• Any changes made to your vehicle that don’t comply
with FCA US; or
• Using any fluid that doesn’t meet the minimum
recommendations in your Owner’s Manual.

So, my guess is the second from last clause is being applied this situation by the dealer.
 
OP
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CONCLUSION: I hate to ruin a good ole’ fashion OP bashing but I fixed my Jeep and there are a few on here that care about that.

First of all, this forum made the fix possible. That’s super important for everyone to grasp. No less than 7 mechanics looked at this Jeep over 24 days and they couldn’t fix it. Or even have a clue. But a forum member who i have never met sent me a PM and set me on course for a fix. Thank you for that.

I won’t rehash the issue, plenty of people have done that on here already.

So here’s the heart of the issue. My Jeep was throwing codes saying that my speed sensors were reporting inconsistent speeds from the Tcase and the ABS sensors.... which was erroneous. But it was persistent. This prevented the 4wd from engaging. The PCM and TCM were flashed and they kept popping up.

The fix. I disconnected both batteries for an hour. Then I re-installed the Tazer cleared codes again and the put in gear and tire size. Restarted about 5 times and it’s good to go. 24 days in the shop for a hard reset.

i drove 300 miles today and no problems. Tomorrow I’m going wheeling in the mountains with @GeorgiaGray with my cobbed together Jeep with no warranty on tractor tires put together by a fake master mechanic. All the haters can suck a fat Richard.
 

DWheelerR

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CONCLUSION: I hate to ruin a good ole’ fashion OP bashing but I fixed my Jeep and there are a few on here that care about that.

First of all, this forum made the fix possible. That’s super important for everyone to grasp. No less than 7 mechanics looked at this Jeep over 24 days and they couldn’t fix it. Or even have a clue. But a forum member who i have never met sent me a PM and set me on course for a fix. Thank you for that.

I won’t rehash the issue, plenty of people have done that on here already.

So here’s the heart of the issue. My Jeep was throwing codes saying that my speed sensors were reporting inconsistent speeds from the Tcase and the ABS sensors.... which was erroneous. But it was persistent. This prevented the 4wd from engaging. The PCM and TCM were flashed and they kept popping up.

The fix. I disconnected both batteries for an hour. Then I re-installed the Tazer cleared codes again and the put in gear and tire size. Restarted about 5 times and it’s good to go. 24 days in the shop for a hard reset.

i drove 300 miles today and no problems. Tomorrow I’m going wheeling in the mountains with @GeorgiaGray with my cobbed together Jeep with no warranty on tractor tires put together by a fake master mechanic. All the haters can suck a fat Richard.
Congrats! I'm glad you got it sorted out!
 

hoag4147

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CONCLUSION: I hate to ruin a good ole’ fashion OP bashing but I fixed my Jeep and there are a few on here that care about that.

First of all, this forum made the fix possible. That’s super important for everyone to grasp. No less than 7 mechanics looked at this Jeep over 24 days and they couldn’t fix it. Or even have a clue. But a forum member who i have never met sent me a PM and set me on course for a fix. Thank you for that.

I won’t rehash the issue, plenty of people have done that on here already.

So here’s the heart of the issue. My Jeep was throwing codes saying that my speed sensors were reporting inconsistent speeds from the Tcase and the ABS sensors.... which was erroneous. But it was persistent. This prevented the 4wd from engaging. The PCM and TCM were flashed and they kept popping up.

The fix. I disconnected both batteries for an hour. Then I re-installed the Tazer cleared codes again and the put in gear and tire size. Restarted about 5 times and it’s good to go. 24 days in the shop for a hard reset.

i drove 300 miles today and no problems. Tomorrow I’m going wheeling in the mountains with @GeorgiaGray with my cobbed together Jeep with no warranty on tractor tires put together by a fake master mechanic. All the haters can suck a fat Richard.
Great to hear it’s fixed. The disconnect of batteries and hard restart is magical sometimes. As you read from many of us - we were convinced it was electronics as were you and Mods played no role... Have a great time in that cobbed together rig this weekend :LOL:
 

Karnak

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CONCLUSION: I hate to ruin a good ole’ fashion OP bashing but I fixed my Jeep and there are a few on here that care about that.

First of all, this forum made the fix possible. That’s super important for everyone to grasp. No less than 7 mechanics looked at this Jeep over 24 days and they couldn’t fix it. Or even have a clue. But a forum member who i have never met sent me a PM and set me on course for a fix. Thank you for that.

I won’t rehash the issue, plenty of people have done that on here already.

So here’s the heart of the issue. My Jeep was throwing codes saying that my speed sensors were reporting inconsistent speeds from the Tcase and the ABS sensors.... which was erroneous. But it was persistent. This prevented the 4wd from engaging. The PCM and TCM were flashed and they kept popping up.

The fix. I disconnected both batteries for an hour. Then I re-installed the Tazer cleared codes again and the put in gear and tire size. Restarted about 5 times and it’s good to go. 24 days in the shop for a hard reset.

i drove 300 miles today and no problems. Tomorrow I’m going wheeling in the mountains with @GeorgiaGray with my cobbed together Jeep with no warranty on tractor tires put together by a fake master mechanic. All the haters can suck a fat Richard.
Glad your back on the road and tks for coming back here to explain what was the problem and the fix etc, not everyone would have done it considering the lenghty tread and some pretty free bashing going on...;)...and it is a testament to who you are...:)

I'll add my bit that in my experience the problem with Jeep guys I found is we're all passionate guys about our rides etc and sometimes we have all been there each one of us were we weren't always correct in the discussions in our posts, but one thing that is great also with jeep guys is when I see exactly what you did here. Nonetheless, you came back and provided very valuable feedback to everyone and now your problem may have helped solve multiple other people's future problems with the same thing.

THIS is what its all about, we discuss, we curse, we blame, we try to figure out and we fix and in the end, with some ruffled up skin hair loss, we shake hands and are glad that you're back and running because in the end thats all that matters, that you're riding/driving your jeep!
 
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