Farout Jeep Wrangler announced as Rubicon Diesel final edition -- sad day today for the diesel crowd [UPDATED: with official press release]

[Chupacabra]

2. Who could have envisioned it? Hedy Lamarr, the 1940's actress who invented frequency hopping in WWII that is basis Cell phones, gps, wifi ...

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[Traveller128]

There's a taxi service in Tokyo that has an automated system that handles the battery pack swap now. They've been operating for a while. The batteries are secured under the body and a robotic system pulls batteries and puts a replacement in.

There are solutions to the potential problems.

Granted, having to support multiple types of vehicles introduces complexity but it's not an insurmountable problem. In the long run anyway. We're still years (decades?) Away from it. But battery charging time is going to be a major hurdle for a lot longer unless we magically come up with some kind of magical batteries that can charge in minutes instead of hours.

The cooling system is the issue for the stuff I'm seeing here. Cooling is everything for battery life. There's no way to properly bleed the system currently for a swap on our higher output stuff. Not saying there won't be, but it's going to take some serious work to get it working for our large distances.

I'll bet the taxi service is using all their own batteries, for their own vehicles I bet. No swapping between companies. In that instance, it could be done I think. Electric buses, taxi services with all the same type of equipment, etc. I think city transportation using electric makes a lot of sense.

I think we solve many of the tech issues in the next 10 years. The grid, well, that will be longer.

I'm holding high hopes for e-fuel. That's looking really neat.

 

[SoCalDriver]

There's been talk, but they are going to be a long time figuring out the 1500+ lb battery swap procedure. There are huge hurdles in the way, we've discussed it at school, and the solution for the next several years is going to be the DC-DC charge stations, not swappable packs. For motorcycles, it's a small enough pack that it can be done. Inroads are being made on that front, that may happen in the next several years. They are much smaller KW storage, smaller cell count, simpler systems. Car packs are WAY more complex.

At issue, is the techs that work on the high voltage cars are all factory trained before they're allowed to touch anything with an orange wire going to it. You'd have to train up a whole new group of attendants to swap out a pack. This is not going to be something the OEM's are going to want customers doing themselves. The liability for 75-100 KW of energy filled device at 400+ volts, being handled by a customer is HUGE. The idea of an automated system doing it, with no one checking the installation, is also problematic.

The amount of energy in the pack is simply enormous. Gasoline in a tank is a simple system comparatively. The high voltage systems, if they fail, and they do, tend to dump all their energy into a runaway reaction. Think, nuclear meltdown.

Tesla is up to 134 confirmed battery fires with 38 fatalities, just on a system that can't be touched by the consumer. Putting low trained techs into the system swapping out a pack that is already somewhat prone to letting the energy out in a dramatic way, is asking for even more trouble. Letting the customer switch out packs for an unknown pack (condition, internal cell balance, internal resistance) is putting the risk level above acceptable. The cooling system precludes swapping them.

I work on these packs, and every single cell needs to be monitored individually. A failure of one cell, shuts down the pack, because a short or open can cause severe results otherwise. Putting more batteries into rotation, adds a lot of variables. There is a cooling system in place that cannot be connected and disconnected to swap. There's a couple versions of battery cooling, one involves cooling the base of a cell module, and the other involves plates of metal with coolant circulating in them, and heat conductive bonding agent holding the cell modules in direct contact with the cooled metal base. Heat is the serious enemy of the current batteries. Probably the reason the Tesla stuff keeps lighting. Cooling while the vehicle is shut down inadequate.

The interesting thing about the Tesla fires, is they have far exceeded the actual number of fires in the Ford Pinto from the 70's. Those numbers were inflated by reporters, but the actual deaths from fires in Pintos in 1975 was 11, and 1976 had 12 (NHTSA sourced, fires from fuel tank rupture resulting in death, Pinto) when the reporters were saying there were over 800 deaths (there weren't). By comparison, Tesla has had more fire deaths from batteries than Ford did, and that resulted in a major black eye for Ford, recalls, huge publicity, jokes about driving Fords back then, etc. Not sure why the electric vehicles are getting a pass on this. By comparison, other manufacturers are not having as much of a problem.

We've been told that if heat is detected in a pack suddenly while working on them, roll it outside as quickly as possible, call the fire department, and get away from it. There is no way to stop it, it takes a very specific fire extinguishing chemical to slow the reaction. It doesn't put it out, it simply takes some of the heat out. It can remain hot and smoldering for a couple DAYS afterwards.

Tesla is still one of the safest cars on the road.
Lets see how those stats compare with cars fueled by a flammable substance, gasoline lol
Love our Jeep and our Tesla!

 

[Teqsand]

I'll bet the taxi service is using all their own batteries, for their own vehicles I bet. No swapping between companies.

If I was tesla I would be looking to own the taxi industry like Marathon did at one time .... pull back from the consumer market and let the commercial market do your road testing real world R&D

 

[Teqsand]

 

[Jocko]

From yesterday:
https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=24327&mid=52

Agree it is amusing that news outlets are picking up this forum as a source but not the actual press release. Perhaps Stellantis hasn't circulated it yet?

 

[NickJar]

From yesterday:
https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=24327&mid=52

Agree it is amusing that news outlets are picking up this forum as a source but not the actual press release. Perhaps Stellantis hasn't circulated it yet?

Well with that press release it’s official that the jl wont have a diesel anymore, the jt will

 

[SparkleTooth]

From yesterday:
https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=24327&mid=52

Agree it is amusing that news outlets are picking up this forum as a source but not the actual press release. Perhaps Stellantis hasn't circulated it yet?

Well I'll concede with that. Sad to see them kill this engine off given how it is everything the jeep community has been screaming for, all these years. This will probably be the last wrangler I own if they continue to move towards hybrid/electric. I assume this is the case since it is apparent according to the Stellantis website that they really only care about diversity and being purveyors of the Electric Era......just like good little globalists.

 

[BrentMG]

At Jeep we listen to our customers. Lol, bullshit. Love how they state it is the most capable engine but they're getting rid of it.

 

[SparkleTooth]

At Jeep we listen to our customers. Lol, bullshit. Love how they state it is the most capable engine but they're getting rid of it.

Exactly....so sick of these limp wristed corporate types who spew marketing platitudes. I guess I should at least be happy that the engine will remain in the Gladiator....at least for now.

Maybe one day soon our diesels will become the new "2004-2006 LJ" in terms of desirability.

 

[Jocko]

Well I'll concede with that. Sad to see them kill this engine off given how it is everything the jeep community has been screaming for, all these years. This will probably be the last wrangler I own if they continue to move towards hybrid/electric. I assume this is the case since it is apparent according to the Stellantis website that they really only care about diversity and being purveyors of the Electric Era......just like good little globalists.

I don't think Stellantis is planning to kill ICE completely in the Wrangler and trucks for quite some time. From what I've read, the next gen of those will be based on the "STLA frame" platform which is the one next gen platform that was designed to accommodate both BEV and ICE powertrains. I suppose it could be possible all ICE powertrains in the next gen are hybrid? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Traveller128]

If I was tesla I would be looking to own the taxi industry like Marathon did at one time .... pull back from the consumer market and let the commercial market do your road testing real world R&D

That would not be a bad idea.

 

[Traveller128]

Well I'll concede with that. Sad to see them kill this engine off given how it is everything the jeep community has been screaming for, all these years. This will probably be the last wrangler I own if they continue to move towards hybrid/electric. I assume this is the case since it is apparent according to the Stellantis website that they really only care about diversity and being purveyors of the Electric Era......just like good little globalists.

ALL the manufacturers globally, will be working towards electrification. It's coming. Whether or not it's well thought out, the decision was made.

 

[av8or]

NIO has been doing the battery swap thing for awhile, but how long does it take to build out a national infrastructure.

The time to build out the infrastructure and battery raw materials seem to be the limiting factor for EV adoption. I’m confident that the future is all electric, but how fast the “switch” can take place I have no idea.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Funny got an email from Chevy about putting new diesel engines in their truck line.

The SIlverado HD will be getting the "most powerful diesel ever" for Chevy truck. Near 1000 pounds of torque, think it comes in 2024. Plus added the diesel to their SUVs, 3.0 straight 6 diesel.

I couldn't go back to 3.6/2.0 after the 3.0ed. Would have to move on from jeep if needed to replace, maybe if the I6 was offered in the future. No interest what so ever in 4xe either.

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