EV vs ICE

[Bohica]

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[Traveller128]

He's not wrong on many points. EV is NOT green in the sense that all the pundits want you to think. It also matters a lot how the power is generated to power them. They are way behind the curve for carbon footprint when they are produced. The only way to get them to be lower emission, is if the power is coming from a renewable source that doesn't create more carbon to make, and has a long life itself. Pretty much nuclear at this point.

The batteries are designed for 8-10 years to half capacity. So far, they seem to be holding up to the designed life, we're a max of 6 years in on the ones I work on. When the power pack needs to be replaced, the expense is high for a hybrid, and over half the car price of a BEV. Plus, a great deal of the carbon footprint again. The ICE should go 200,000+ miles. The BEV will not make it there without a battery replacement, which is like a complete powertrain replacement for cost. At this point, our hybrid batteries were around $16-18K last I checked, and the BEV is over $30K. The Hybrids are similar to the 4Xe at around 20 miles of range, long range hybrids are supposed to be 31-49 according to the recently released specs (new stuff I work on) and the BEV is around 200.

When taken as a whole, electric cars have a long way to go to be "clean". They also cannot be produced for anything close to the price of an ICE vehicle. They have to offer tax incentives and subsidize the tech, because it's expensive. They have to use taxpayer funds from everyone to build a delivery system. The whole industry is hugely subsidized.

I'm not a fan boy one way or the other, I'd love to see the electric cars be a great option. But the math for "green" isn't about emissions, it's about someone making bank off of integrating new tech and all the money it makes for building, installing and integrating the charging infrastructure. A lot of the "cost" for electric cars is not visible to most people, they just see nothing coming out of an exhaust and assume they're helping the environment.

 

[Monster1926]

Over 10 posts or under 10 posts until politics get brought up and it gets shut down. Place your bets.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

Over 10 posts or under 10 posts until politics get brought up and it gets shut down. Place your bets.

Under. Not counting yours or mine though lol.
Bonus points if there is a "Let's Go Brandon" uttered before shut down.

 

[TX_Ovrlnd]

Under. Not counting yours or mine though lol.
Bonus points if there is a "Let's Go Brandon" uttered before shut down.

I don't know what my brother has to do with EV stuff, he's in agriculture If the infrastructure to support such tech ever happened and it was guaranteed to not have the amount of blackouts and brownouts currently experiencing, it would be a great advancement. We just are not there and it's no particular group's fault, it's everyone. Battery technology and how materials are sourced needs to come further along to even start that ball rolling.

 

[Jmos4]

Hi all,

In the battery field, anyhow saw this posted on one of the Challenger forums and this would make EV much more attractive just wonder what the cost would be and best of all no recharging

https://www.physics-astronomy.com/2022/04/scientists-turn-nuclear-waste-into.html?m=1

Regards,
Jim

 

[Fatalis12B]

How Oil is obtained...

How Lithium for the batteries of "Green Cars" is obtained...

Who is saving the planet?...lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/business/lithium-mining-race.html

 

[Traveller128]

Hi all,

In the battery field, anyhow saw this posted on one of the Challenger forums and this would make EV much more attractive just wonder what the cost would be and best of all no recharging

https://www.physics-astronomy.com/2022/04/scientists-turn-nuclear-waste-into.html?m=1

Regards,
Jim

If that could be made to work in an EV, that would make perfect sense.

My problem with the current model, is the production of the batteries, as well as the power generation methods needed, only makes financial sense to the people producing and selling the tech. It's not "smart" enough yet, and the power generation isn't there yet to make the switch. The lack of grid storage is a major issue.

Electric vehicles are nice to drive, and they are smooth. Electric motors are much better at producing torque at low RPM, so would make outstanding rock crawlers, to high speed commuters. The efficiency is decent as far as watts used, vs. power produced for moving a vehicle.

I've always though electric cars made perfect sense, going back to the 70's. Even lead/acid battery powered cars worked pretty well with old tech for commuters. No way to take them very far away from a place to charge them though, unless you were willing to park somewhere overnight using a 110 outlet to charge for the next day and 70-80 miles. People used them for city cars just fine. Every now and then one of them shows up on "bring a trailer" or ebay, or a collector car site.

 

[blueweb]

https://www.google.com/doodles/earth-day-2022

 

[Reinen]

Bringing this to Jeep, I'm very much looking forward to what doors EV opens up suspension wise. We all love our live axle tradition but it can be done better. EV allows suspensions that are impossible with ICE, such as a Mars Rover type suspension with individual motors for each wheel. That opens up the door to suspensions that can lift itself off-road with crazy true vertical wheel travel and then settle down into an on-road configuration.

The big hurdle I see for Jeep is range and off-grid refueling. Jeep is a wilderness vehicle. No wilderness EV refueling method can compare with the size, speed and convenience of a 5gal Jerry Can (aside from a mini nuclear reactor). You can easily replace the ICE engine with a small efficient generator but that brings political and regulatory issues as technically, it would be a hybrid instead of an EV. Environmentalists would get all bent over it no matter how efficient that purpose-built generator would be.

All in all, an EV Jeep has a very interesting future.

 

[Shibadog]

Electric is still a long way from prime time.for most users, short range, basically “dirtier (or at least as dirty over the vehicles lifetime), expensive. If the tech wasn't being pushed by certain parties methinks the market would self limit fairly quickly and the fuel cells/hydrogen would replace traditional ICE over time. Those who are in love with electrics tend to ignore(1) the battery production/disposal issue and (2) the fact that electricity has to come from “somewhere” as it’s not naturally in usable forms. Since the ones on top want no new nuclear plants, coal fired plantsor even gas fired plants, where is the juice to come from? A certain state on the lower left coast has problems meeting demand Today-how cool is it going to be with a few million electric cars added to the equation? I’m holding out for my Mister Fusion

 

[AnnDee4444]

Over 10 posts or under 10 posts until politics get brought up and it gets shut down. Place your bets.

Over.

 

[INCRHULK]

How Oil is obtained...

How Lithium for the batteries of "Green Cars" is obtained...

Who is saving the planet?...lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/business/lithium-mining-race.html

Also how coal that likely powers your house (if in the us), crude out of tar sands, nickel, iron, and other minerals and elements are mined for just about anything you own. Never mind the refining of those metals.

Carbon reduction is about lifecycle management, which many industries ignore.

 

[HBDiesel]

I really hope a automobile manufacturer gives us a small diesel generator that powers a electric drivetrain. (Just like a locomotive) that would be most efficient for travel.

 

[Shibadog]

I still dunno why we are going electric/battery vs electric fuel cell. Hydrogen is the most common substance on earth and we’ve used fuel cells for decades in high tech applications, so the tech exists.

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