ESS "Not Ready Battery Charging" question.

Rahneld

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I’ve noticed this as well if I don’t dive the jeep for several days. I drove it only a few times last week and it took pretty much all weekend of driving for ESS to be enabled. Was probably 2-3 hours of total driving. I’m wondering too If the colder weather may be exacerbating it. It’s been like this since day one. So I tend to think it’s normal...
It's funny Doug your choice of the word "normal." For a rig that was claimed to be the most tested worldwide, including in temperatures so cold that it must make your locale right now relatively look like walking on the sun, you'd think that their two battery ESS design would have involved a big enough battery/alternator and suitable threshold for ESS to engage that wouldn't have some little sneeze like seeing your breath in the air cause it to not work...I think. Testing includes deliberately not using the rig on occasion to simulate storage conditions all too common for JL drivers spending less time behind the wheel.

As you may know, many ESS systems use one battery. I don't fault FCA for using two. In fact it was probably a good decision given on the extra energy drawing accessories rig owners might have going doing an ESS event (extra lights, etc.)

I just don't think trickle charging or riding 50 miles/day if you don't need to should be what's needed to keep the ESS system going.

Many people hate ESS and that's fine, but at the end of the day it should be the owner's choice whether to engage the system, not the rig's limitations.

But it is normal in that lots of people report the OP's problem. : - )
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dccurtis

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Haha well I am no expert on ESS systems. I just know it’s been like this since day 1 so I don’t think it’s malfunctioning. Whether or not it’s a good design or not is an entirely different question.

I’m not a fan of ESS in general so it really doesn’t bother me much when it doesn’t shut off. But I definitely shared the same sense of anxiety that maybe something was wrong the first few times it happened.

All this said... if others have different experience with it I definitely would be interested to hear so I know to get the jeep into service!
 

Jebiruph

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As bad as not being able to cold start your jeep with a bad aux battery is, it's still not as bad as getting stranded in traffic because of a bad battery. So the aux battery is tested during a cold start and if it fails, you don't start.
 
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BrntWS6

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I choose to not make "normal" and "service" mutually exclusive options like you've positioned them in your last sentence sir, (or ma'am.) : - )

I'm assuming you refer to the 3.6L, to which these comments apply.

Here's why. There could always be something going on electrically and it may be best to get the rig in for service while it's still under warranty.

But that said, what you describe is also very common behavior of rigs not driven enough miles for the alternator to charge the ESS battery enough.

Your usage mimics mine and I too shortly into ownership experienced the same issues until I put my rig on a trickle charger when at rest. The dealer may replace your ESS battery and after a period of time, you may find yourself in this same situation.

Do I think this should not be necessary: yes. But I do it. I installed a good trickle charger under the hood, and at another forum member's smart suggestion I purchased one of these to facilitate hooking the rig up to shore power when parked. I have it (the product of the link below) come out the front of the engine bay where it dangles when not in use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ANV81S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

At all times but ESS events and engine cranks (cold or post ESS ones), the alternator, a trickle charger, a battery pack jump start (which are notoriously not powerful enough*) or jumper cables from another rig charges both batteries, as the batteries are connected in parallel at all times but ESS events and for an instant at crank time.

One of the reasons such battery packs are inadequate is tied to why jump starting the 3.6L cannot happen immediately: you have to wait for a few minutes even with a jump start. The charging devices, connected to the main battery, charge both batteries and the ESS battery (having NOTHING to do with ESS here) must have enough power all on its own or the engine will not crank: a threshold by the way that is much less than ESS being able to engage. Invariable the battery pack looses omph to crank the engine, while its busy during the owner's manual described "waiting period," charging the ESS battery, which itself is taxed given the battery pack is also charging the main battery simultaneously.

If you are at all interested in how to get around this limitation I wrote a long post on the theory behind this but it's off topic. Ask if you want the link.

There's also a workaround, if you want to know say so and I'll send you the link, that permanently connects both batteries in parallel such that if either battery has sufficient power (not just the ESS) the 3.6L can still crank. I call it the "Jebiruph solution" given the name of the forum member who devised it.

The only downside to this is ESS can engage when it might normally not, and remain on possibly longer than it should, taxing the very main battery that is suppose to be protected/isolated during ESS events to have power for the crank. With this workout the main battery works during ESS events as well, contra to how the system was designed.

If that sounds confusing--given that I told you the ESS battery needs power for the crank to occur--here's the skinny. Both batteries crank the starter, (in fact a fully charged ESS battery can run the rig without the main battery but not vice versa) but that energization of the starter won't occur, even if you've replaced your main battery with a "nuclear power plant," if the ESS battery has inadequate power--barring the aforementioned Jebiruph hack.

In other words have a dead ESS battery and the rig won't even attempt the crank.

This IMHO is a true flaw in cold cranks--which I believe should come if either or both batteries have power. I believe it works this way because FCA stole the algorithm from how ESS works and shouldn't have.

And the reason they shouldn't have is that unlike cold cranks, the rig won't engage ESS if the ESS battery is too low (your reported problem) nor will an ESS event continue if the ESS battery loses too much power during the event keeping electric stuff running while you wait at a traffic light. The protective and checking algorithms DON'T happen at cold cranks.
Thanks, sounds like from your and other posts that the system is operating as designed. It does charge, just takes a long time.

Do you use an on board battery charger or just a standard trickle charger? I was looking at the genius charger and it look like a nice simple option to keep the batteries charged.

If you have time can you snap a pic of where you have your cord coming out.
 

DatsunX3

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Mine showed this message for 1/2 a day. Didn't seem correct to me. I disconnected the battery for 5 minutes, after re connecting the battery everything was fine. Stop/Start was working again and no message. Haven't had a problem since.
 

Rahneld

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Thanks, sounds like from your and other posts that the system is operating as designed. It does charge, just takes a long time.

Do you use an on board battery charger or just a standard trickle charger? I was looking at the genius charger and it look like a nice simple option to keep the batteries charged.

If you have time can you snap a pic of where you have your cord coming out.
Will do. I'll come back here later today with pictures. : - )
 

loiacki

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So i am trying to determine if I should take the jeep into the dealer to have the battery's checked. This could be normal as its my first car with start/stop.

My issue is the ESS is in charging mode a lot. Now the jeep is not my DD and the heated seats etc im sure take a toll on the battery. I drove around last week for about 2 hours straight and it would not fully charge. Put it on a trickle charger for 6hrs and it was fine for a few days. Then went back to "battery charging". With a bit of driving (30min) it would charge and activate. This lasted for a couple more days.

Now today i have driven for an hour and it's still in charge mode. I have a sahara but with no tow package so I believe i have the 220amp alternator.

I am just curious as to what you all have experienced with this system and if it sounds normal or not before i bring it in.

Thanks!
I started getting "start/stop not ready - battery protection mode" and "start/stop unavailable service start/stop system". I also had to jump start once. I was around 14 months old and 20K miles and needed both batteries replaced under warranty. Another friend just did the same around 19-20K. There is a definite trend.
 

Rahneld

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As bad as not being able to cold start your jeep with a bad aux battery is, it's still not as bad as getting stranded in traffic because of a bad battery. So the aux battery is tested during a cold start and if it fails, you don't start.
Absolutely true Jer...but we owners have at our disposal during ESS events the fact that the 3.6L won't enter an ESS event if the ESS battery lacks sufficient power, and the fact that the rig will monitor the ESS battery's power during an ESS event, prematurely--before the brake pedal is released--ending that ESS event if the ESS battery drops too low in power.

Of course that's not a guarantee that getting stranded mid-traffic can't happen.

And of course what I say above is when the rig has its factory connections, not your otherwise invaluable hack I refer to above, whose only weakness as a permanent install--IMHO-- may be the entering and maintaining of ESS events beyond what factory wire connections would allow, and possibly robbing the main battery of cranking power during an overextended ESS event.

..that is if you don't turn off ESS; which so many you don't like it do. : - )

For those who don't know as much as Jerry, his hack keeps the batteries connected in parallel at all times, and to the best of my knowledge prevents the rig's isolation of the ESS battery to solely power rig appliances during ESS events, as designed, or for an instant pre-crank (cold or ESS) to access the ESS battery's power alone and not even attempt a crank if it lacks sufficient power (at a threshold of tolerance much lower than that needed to enter an ESS event as evidenced by the fact that many rigs cold crank just fine but won't enter into ESS as the OP first described due to lack of sufficient ESS power for ESS to occur.)
 

TXRobD

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My 2018 was displaying a message AUX switches not available, battery is charging. That was happening for a couple of weeks and then one day the Jeep wouldn't start. I had to get a jump start and took it in to the dealer. They replaced both batteries under warranty.
 

JeepCares

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So i am trying to determine if I should take the jeep into the dealer to have the battery's checked. This could be normal as its my first car with start/stop.

My issue is the ESS is in charging mode a lot. Now the jeep is not my DD and the heated seats etc im sure take a toll on the battery. I drove around last week for about 2 hours straight and it would not fully charge. Put it on a trickle charger for 6hrs and it was fine for a few days. Then went back to "battery charging". With a bit of driving (30min) it would charge and activate. This lasted for a couple more days.

Now today i have driven for an hour and it's still in charge mode. I have a sahara but with no tow package so I believe i have the 220amp alternator.

I am just curious as to what you all have experienced with this system and if it sounds normal or not before i bring it in.

Thanks!
Haha well I am no expert on ESS systems. I just know it’s been like this since day 1 so I don’t think it’s malfunctioning. Whether or not it’s a good design or not is an entirely different question.

I’m not a fan of ESS in general so it really doesn’t bother me much when it doesn’t shut off. But I definitely shared the same sense of anxiety that maybe something was wrong the first few times it happened.

All this said... if others have different experience with it I definitely would be interested to hear so I know to get the jeep into service!
Hi BrntWS6 and dccurtis,
Should you decide to visit your dealer to have this looked into, feel free to keep us updated! If additional assistance is needed throughout your dealer visit, please send our team a PM.
Alex
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JeepCares

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I've not seen that message in the last 12 months. I'm getting the 'Service the ESS System' message fairly regularly now, so I'll have to take it in for that, but haven't seen the 'Battery Charging' message.
Hi David,
As mentioned to your fellow forum members, please send our team a private message if you need any assistance throughout your dealer visit.
Alex
JeepCares
 

Rahneld

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Thanks, sounds like from your and other posts that the system is operating as designed. It does charge, just takes a long time.

Do you use an on board battery charger or just a standard trickle charger? I was looking at the genius charger and it look like a nice simple option to keep the batteries charged.

If you have time can you snap a pic of where you have your cord coming out.
First, even though not asked, a link to Jerry's @Jebiruph's hack.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-aux-battery-bypass.17293/

It will come up here.

Next, a picture of my trickle charger:


IMG_3216.JPG



I have it sitting on top of the PDC (power distribution center) cover with mounting tape. Notice the on and off switch to the right. Not specific to this thread it is Jerry's hack of above connected to and on and off switch.

(The thick red and black cable shown is not relevant. https://www.polepalsolarlightingsystem.com/catalog/cat-100013/Power-ConnectorsTransfers#.XcnDLXdFy1s It flows to the front of the rig to facilitate jumping others or being jumped. Its "Anderson" plug is in the middle left of the last picture, or an example of which also appears in the bottom of the second picture It connects to a cable with the matching plug at one end and alligator clips on the other I keep in the back of my rig.)

If you were to open the cover to the PDC upon which my trickle charge sits, within the exposed box, on the side closest to driver's side, in a line from front to back of the vehicle you will see the high order fuses of the PDC, numbered sequentially from front of rig to back.

Jerry's hack keeps the two batteries connected in parallel at all times (recall from my prior posts that the 3.6L's batteries are isolated pre-crank for an instant and during ESS events). Since I feel this hack may have some downsides to it for people running ESS (but completely offset by the benefits if you're not allowing ESS to engage) I put the hack on an on/off switch to get the best of both worlds. "On" if the rig won't crank because the ESS battery dies, and otherwise "off" to make sure ESS events only happen and last while the ESS battery is strong (also described above.)

To point, with the batteries always connected in parallel with the hack, tests of the ESS battery in isolation by the rig may not truly be in isolation, instead supplemented by the main battery that's connected in parallel to it permanently as a result of this hack.

Again--this is not to put down the hack; just to point out its benefits and possible issues.

~~~~~~~~~~

I've run the trickle charger's AC plug to a place just forward of the main battery and behind the air filter. It plugs into an AC extension cord which drops to a point by the most forward body cross member below.

IMG_3217.JPG


Finally, this extension cords male end connects to the short Amazon cord referenced above in this thread and comes up just behind the bumper and around on the passenger's side. This picture is taken with me on my back just forward of the passenger's front tire. It's this end that has a male 3 prong AC plug to attach to your shore cable.

IMG_3203.JPG
 

Jebiruph

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... fact that the 3.6L won't enter an ESS event if the ESS battery lacks sufficient power

... entering and maintaining of ESS events beyond what factory wire connections would allow, and possibly robbing the main battery of cranking power during an overextended ESS event

... at a threshold of tolerance much lower than that needed to enter an ESS event as evidenced by the fact that many rigs cold crank just fine but won't enter into ESS as the OP first described due to lack of sufficient ESS power for ESS to occur.
I don't think ESS "Not Ready Battery Charging" refers to the aux battery charging. I don't think the system knows anything about the aux battery except for the initial cold start test and when the batteries are separated during an auto stop. I think "Not Ready Battery Charging" is based on the IBS's reporting of the main battery's condition and it's ability to restart after an auto stop.

Not disabling auto stop when running on just the main battery (with the aux bypassed) will put extra stress on the main battery, but the main battery is still monitored and the engine will be restarted before the main battery runs down too far.
 

Rahneld

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I don't think ESS "Not Ready Battery Charging" refers to the aux battery charging. I don't think the system knows anything about the aux battery except for the initial cold start test and when the batteries are separated during an auto stop. I think "Not Ready Battery Charging" is based on the IBS's reporting of the main battery's condition and it's ability to restart after an auto stop.

Not disabling auto stop when running on just the main battery (with the aux bypassed) will put extra stress on the main battery, but the main battery is still monitored and the engine will be restarted before the main battery runs down too far.

Good to know. You mentioned two times that the 3.6L knows of the ESS batteries status. Do you think that testing prior to an ESS event is a third?

I say this because people report that longer trips, where initially that "Not Ready Battery Charging" message appears and ESS doesn't engage, that the message does go away and ESS does kick in. So I have to presume there are additional checks of the ESS battery, even if not just, or necessarily immediately prior to a possible ESS event.

(I know its not easy Jerry to run a multimeter at a stop light to find out some of these things, as you did a stationary rig for the hack!)

I hear you that this message may not be related to charging, even though coincidence may find the alternator of a cranked rig charging both batteries while coincidentally this message appears--making it "true by "coincidence," if that makes any sense, somewhat similar to the fact that if you turn the wheel too much at a stop light, or put the automatic rig into manual, so too ESS won't engage, and yet the alternator is still charging away.
 
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