ESS Failure... 2nd Occurrence

[Stalzie]

Hi everyone,

I have a 2020 Unlimited Rubicon with the EcoDiesel engine.

The issue: When stopped in traffic, the ESS system did as designed shutting the engine off. When the light turned green and releasing the brake, the engine did not turn on. Hitting the gas multiple times did nothing, basically a dead stick stick in the middle of the road. Once hitting the brake and releasing again, the engine turned on and away we went.

I had posted a similar thread of the first occurrence a few weeks ago. This time my brother was driving and I was in the passenger seat. In traffic my brother started saying wtf wtf it won’t go? I look over and see him hitting the gas pedal over and over. He tried pushing the on/off engine start button and was somewhat quickly fiddling around trying to start as we were in traffic. I tried to get my phone out to record what was happening but by the time I did he had already tapped and released the brake, the engine turned on and we went on our way.

-The vehicle was ON, and in Drive.
- No alarms came on the dash.
-No, myself or my brother drive with two feet so that is not a factor

I originally took the Jeep to the dealer on the first occurrence, then saying there is nothing they could find, everything looked fine and they could not replicate.

Now after the second occurrence, I took it back to the dealer again asking them to check it again. Same thing, no alarms found when scanning, nothing they could find. I asked them to double check any fuses, relays, the brake switch etc to make sure all was tight etc. They claim everything was checked and thereis nothing they can do since they themselves can not replicate it. I get it, hard to figure out intermittent issues.

They told me to just turn the ESS off. While this is what I am in general now doing (if I remember to), I don’t feel this should be the proposed solution. All features on a new vehicle should work flawlessly regardless. My concern is there are no service bulletins or notes regarding any other customer complaints of the problem. So I said to the dealer, well maybe mine is the first one since it is the new diesel etc. I asked if they can reach out to Jeep etc, said to call them.

So.... I called Jeep. They originally said they were going to install a “flight recorder” to record any instances and let me drive around with it until it happened. I got a call back later Saying they could not lend me the unit and I would have to drop the vehicle off at the dealer to test it out for a few days as they need the flight recorder for other vehicle diagnostic etc. They did however offer to our for a rental car during the time period it is in the shop.

My concern is since it is intermittent, it may just not happen again while at the dealer. For myself I am willing to take more of a risk driving, however I frequently have my kids in th car (both times of occurrence with my son in the back seat) and I feel this is an intermittent safety issue that should be addressed. What happens if the dealer can not replicate and then the same occurrence it happens to me again in the near future? If I’m complaining of this, now a repeating failure I have experienced, perhaps Jeep take it back and do some R and D? Or if not interested just replace all parts associated with the ESS system if not willing to dig into it?

I guess I’m looking for any serious comments if anyone else has had this happen or have heard of it, or any other suggestions you may have. I bought the Jeep after wanting this for 10 years (and patiently waiting for the diesel ), and am quite disappointed at the moment with this. I work in manufacturing and understand what goes on with quality issues and repeat failure etc, but in this case I guess I am looking for some further support on this one if there are any suggestions. I guess in my eyes, yes they probably view it as a one off issue and is a minimal concern. Is it going to take for me to have the dead stick in the middle of the road and get smashed by someone for them to look into it further?

Sorry for the long winded message, however I appreciate your time and feedback.

Thanks,

Dan

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[mwilk012]

Tell them to replace things under warranty or replace the Jeep. They'll probably start with the brake switch.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

@Stalzie

Indeed, it is frustrating dealing with what you are dealing with.. Eventually, others will have the same issue and in time there will be a fix ... a way to remedy the issue.

I got my 2018 JL 2dr., right when they first started manufacturing them.. I as other's that chose to buy a new offering... to be an early adopter.... had to deal with lots of issues.. issues to this day...

From loose interior panels, rear windshield wipers dripping when it got hot out, UConnect issues, No Off Road Pages, grill yellowing, excessive fan noise with AC, poor defrost of windshield, and and, well, a list of things.

I took it all in stride and realized that it is unrealistic to believe that a new vehicle offering would have no issues, no quirks, etc.. I knew that FCA would eventually come up with fixes to most of the issues I was encountering.. With some no fix for my model year but in the next model year, lets say,

Enjoy your JL and do know this is only the first, of many issues you will be faced with in regard to that JL. Had you purchased a new year Chevy, etc., you would have the same scenario.

At this point you might want to not let it get to you either safety wise or mentally.

Were I you, I would go out and buy a SmartStopStart unit or a Tazer JL and just disable ESS. ESS gets turned off automatically and ESS qlitches, etc. are history.

https://www.smartstopstart.com/jeep-dodge-chrysler.html

 

[Notorious]

Dan, Jeep engineers don’t read this forum - enthusiasts and owners do. Get in the habit of disabling your ESS.

 

[daveprice7]

I've had a few instances (in 10,000 miles, fewer than five times) where the ESS didn't restart as it should. In my case, I get the screen on the gauge cluster as though the vehicle isn't running (I have a manual transmission, so it says something about depressing the clutch pedal to start the vehicle)... However, I either hit the brake or clutch or something and it starts on its own without pressing the start button... Probably same as you.

Apparently ESS is pretty bad for engine life; maybe it was a dumb idea that FCA had to put in for EPA bullshittery and it wasn't implemented very well. Probably turning it off is the best advice. I might get a Tazer to make it automatic.

 

[mwilk012]

Apparently ESS is pretty bad for engine life;

I have still yet to see any evidence of this.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

I've had a few instances (in 10,000 miles, fewer than five times) where the ESS didn't restart as it should. In my case, I get the screen on the gauge cluster as though the vehicle isn't running (I have a manual transmission, so it says something about depressing the clutch pedal to start the vehicle)... However, I either hit the brake or clutch or something and it starts on its own without pressing the start button... Probably same as you.

Apparently ESS is pretty bad for engine life; maybe it was a dumb idea that FCA had to put in for EPA bullshittery and it wasn't implemented very well. Probably turning it off is the best advice. I might get a Tazer to make it automatic.

IF, all you want to do is just defeat ESS, then don't buy a Tazer JL but do buy a SmartStopStart unit.
Way less $ and way less headaches, less involved, then a Tazer JL.

Regarding the $ you pay for the SmartStopStart..... well, you will recoop about 3/4 of those $ when you eventually sell your JL and sell then sell the SSS on this forum, Craigslist, etc.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

@Stalzie

By the way... I see you are from Upstate NY. (Buffalo) Wait til you experience the front windshield defroster on your JL this Winter.......

The fogged, poorly defrosted, iced over, windshield on the JL..... Will make your ESS issue seem almost a non-issue in comparison...

At least the ESS issue you can easily remedy with a SSS or by pushing the ESS button.

 

[rallydefault]

Woof, that would freak me out. Thankfully you were at a light and not timing to merge onto a highway or something. In my opinion, if you want to drive with the ESS (which it is a feature of the car that you paid for, so you are in every right to want that), even intermittent issues with something that can severely endanger you is absolutely unacceptable. This is not like some pesky little Uconnect message you have to click away from every time you start the car (which happened to me - not a big deal that I just lived with for awhile).

My startup routine includes disabling ESS, and I'm not someone who even wants the feature, but if I were you I would start to play hardball and say this is totally unacceptable and that you will be accepting the rental jeep at no cost to you until they can replicate the issue in your jeep at the dealership, whether that takes a day or a year.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Woof, that would freak me out. Thankfully you were at a light and not timing to merge onto a highway or something. In my opinion, if you want to drive with the ESS (which it is a feature of the car that you paid for, so you are in every right to want that), even intermittent issues with something that can severely endanger you is absolutely unacceptable. This is not like some pesky little Uconnect message you have to click away from every time you start the car (which happened to me - not a big deal that I just lived with for awhile).
@rallydefault

My startup routine includes disabling ESS, and I'm not someone who even wants the feature, but if I were you I would start to play hardball and say this is totally unacceptable and that you will be accepting the rental jeep at no cost to you until they can replicate the issue in your jeep at the dealership, whether that takes a day or a year.

Agreed, that getting after FCA is something to do.... a must do..

But for me, for something like an ESS issue, I'm not leaving my JL at the shop for weeks or whatever waiting for FCA to come up with a fix.

Good chance the JL will suffer damage, etc., sitting at the dealership for days/weeks and of course, having clueless techs repeatedly messing with it blindly, is not a positive thing.

The fix will come in time.. others will have the same issue and FCA will eventually tender a TSB.

OP, should call, Dedicated Jeep Customer Care: Ph. 1-866-362-2146 and make a formal complaint and ask for help on their end. They may have the JL go to another dealer for eval of they may send out an FCA trouble shooter to eval the vehicle..

 

[daveprice7]

I have still yet to see any evidence of this.

Oh, empirical evidence, no.. just kinda general knowledge that starting and stopping a motor/engine/anything causes more stress than keeping it in motion. But then again, an engine idling is not great either. I couldn't tell you which is worse, but I know one of those choices hasn't failed several times unexpectedly in traffic... When I drive into town, it's rare that ESS stops the engine for more than a few moments, so, I'd hardly ever be idling for much time anyway.

All that being said; I wouldn't mind an on-demand ESS, when I know I'm gonna be stopped for a while (approaching a red light that just turned red... Construction stop, etc). I wonder if one of these ESS gizmos could auto-disable ESS at every restart.. that'd be kinda cool.

 

[mwilk012]

Oh, empirical evidence, no.. just kinda general knowledge that starting and stopping a motor/engine/anything causes more stress than keeping it in motion. But then again, an engine idling is not great either. I couldn't tell you which is worse, but I know one of those choices hasn't failed several times unexpectedly in traffic... When I drive into town, it's rare that ESS stops the engine for more than a few moments, so, I'd hardly ever be idling for much time anyway.

All that being said; I wouldn't mind an on-demand ESS, when I know I'm gonna be stopped for a while (approaching a red light that just turned red... Construction stop, etc). I wonder if one of these ESS gizmos could auto-disable ESS at every restart.. that'd be kinda cool.

Idling is generally worse for a vehicle than just about anything else. ESS is a hot start anyway, very low stress.

 

[daveprice7]

IF, all you want to do is just defeat ESS, then don't buy a Tazer JL but do buy a SmartStopStart unit.

Well... I also want my fogs to stay on with my high beams...and... I will likely be getting bigger tires; but might be swapping back to the smaller ones depending on the season.... So, yeah.. more than just ESS.

 

[Fsttanks]

Idling is generally worse for a vehicle than just about anything else. ESS is a hot start anyway, very low stress.

Unfortunately that is not what one of the lead engine designers at FCA says. Rather the ESS is very hard on engines especially the 3.6.

 

[aldo98229]

Unfortunately that is not what one of the lead engine designers at FCA says. Rather the ESS is very hard on engines....

Indeed. That’s precisely why 80% of parts in 3.6 V6 were redesigned and upgraded; to withstand ESS.

I’d be fuming if this happened to me in a brand-new $60,000 JLUR EcoDiesel. And that dealer seems predictably useless.

Hope you gets things resolved, OP.

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