Embarrased to ask this question...

[J0E]

Okay thanks J0e... I guess I do have trouble reading. I routinely have this problem. Plenty of us apparently. No ill wishes... just trying to relate.

In all fairness it was hidden in a bunch other rants.

First took my friend wheeling in my F-250 with open front/rear differentials on a logging road. We went around a tight turn and the truck was bucking, same as OP's question. He was upset and didn't like it, even when I explained it's to be expected.

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[jeepoch]

@J0E,

In your view, why have an open diff at all is how I'm reading your response. With locked axles both wheels rotate at the same rate. When turning, the inside wheel has a smaller radius than the outside wheel so therefore must spin slower in order to not cause any mechanical binding. This is what causes force vectors that create slippage.

That's exactly why open differentials were invented. They allow the two wheels to rotate at different rates going through a turn. Any turn independent of terrain.

Locked axles only work well when going straight and when both wheels want to rotate at the same rate. If they can't due to either cornering or slippery ground contact, they are still nonetheless mechanically connected and something must give. Either a wheel will slip or the gearing in the drivetrain (at the differential, transfer-case, or transmission) will bind and start shaving metal.

Feel free to believe you can muscle you're way through anything with lockers as you attempt to show with a pic. I'll stick with the physics and apply just the minimally required torque to maintain traction with minimal slip. The only difference is that I won't throw as much dirt and certainly will have a much lower probability of breaking anything.

And yes you can find me and my Sport on some of the most difficult mountain passes and peaks in my home state of Colorado. Even helping pull up some Rubicon's along the way.

Jay

 

[word302]

Yet plenty of hardcore wheelers seem to get by just fine with spools or Lincoln lockers.

 

[AVGeek99]

In all fairness it was hidden in a bunch other rants.

First took my friend wheeling in my F-250 with open front/rear differentials on a logging road. We went around a tight turn and the truck was bucking, same as OP's question. He was upset and didn't like it, even when I explained it's to be expected.

I wouldn't say I was upset, I was more worried that something might be wrong. I've had three 4x4s in my life and never really noticed anything like that before. But then again I don't make a habit of driving in circles with my steering wheel at lock.

The first time I noticed the hopping, I was actually driving in a straight line. But at the time I had a malfunctioning wheel speed sensor causing the BLD to engage, so I had a few things going on. Then everything was fine for awhile so I tried to see if I could recreate the problem to determine if I did need a repair. That's when I went driving in circles, it started hopping and the BLD started engaging so I thought I had recreated the problem, although no warning lights this time. That's when I posted this thread and you guys explained what was going on.

For that I thank you all!

 

[Steph1]

No embarrassment for you at all. What blows my mind is how dealers deliver vehicles without basic tutorials.

Back in the day, salesmen would also be brand fanatics and would spend a good hour explaining and making sure new owners understood how things work. But that was the 80s-90s.

If you purchased the Jeep used, then it was upon you to do your homework and understand how things work before using the technical things.

You mentionned rear tire hopping, both front and rear should be hopping and the steering wheel jerking while tight turning with no traction loss.

Now do yourself a favor and don’t put your head in the sand hoping everything is fine. Go get it checked and take advantage of that check-up to get an axle fluid change. That way they get a good visual at the gears and inspect the t-case.

 

[J0E]

@J0E,

In your view, why have an open diff at all is how I'm reading your response.

Wrong. I was pointing out you know virtually nothing about wheeling with lockers.
I'm not condemning rigs without lockers, I'm condemning your attacks on lockers and your misinformation about the wheeling Ruby folks. How many Rubys have you wheeled with?

@J0E,

With locked axles both wheels rotate at the same rate. When turning, the inside wheel has a smaller radius than the outside wheel so therefore must spin slower in order to not cause any mechanical binding. This is what causes force vectors that create slippage.

That's exactly why open differentials were invented. They allow the two wheels to rotate at different rates going through a turn. Any turn independent of terrain.

Thanks captain obvious for pointing out the obvious.

Locked axles only work well when going straight and when both wheels want to rotate at the same rate.

You've obviously never wheeled with lockers. Locked axles work fantastic when they're needed in difficult terrain. You make these ridiculous assertions yet you seem to know nothing about wheeling with lockers.

Locked axles only work well when going straight and when both wheels want to rotate at the same rate.

I pointed out your assertion is wrong previously. Going straight off road it's rare that each wheel would have the same elevation. Think about going straight and the drivers side is at a constant slope, the passengers is going through whoops.

Locked axles only work well when going straight and when both wheels want to rotate at the same rate. If they can't due to either cornering or slippery ground contact, they are still nonetheless mechanically connected and something must give. Either a wheel will slip or the gearing in the drivetrain (at the differential, transfer-case, or transmission) will bind and start shaving metal.

That really shows your misunderstanding of lockers. Even on pavement, the wheels slip, not that I'd ever try it, but many have.

And you seem to again dodge my question, without a differential in the xfer case, Either a wheel will slip or the gearing in the drivetrain (at the differential, transfer-case, or transmission) will bind and start shaving metal.

Granted it's not a severe as lockers, but you'll have have wheel slippage & bucking, that's what started this thread.

I'll stick with the physics and apply just the minimally required torque to maintain traction with minimal slip. The only difference is that I won't throw as much dirt and certainly will have a much lower probability of breaking anything.

You don't seem to understand physics if you think lockers don't provide a huge advantage.

I'll stick with the physics and apply just the minimally required torque to maintain traction with minimal slip. The only difference is that I won't throw as much dirt and certainly will have a much lower probability of breaking anything.

Double LOL. No one has come close to making the hill in my avatar without lockers and massive spinning and throwing dirt.

And yes you can find me and my Sport on some of the most difficult mountain passes and peaks in my home state of Colorado. Even helping pull up some Rubicon's along the way.

Jay

Quad LOL, your pics show 2 WD terrain. At least 6 levels lower than some of the most difficult mountain passes and peaks in my home state of Colorado

Feel free to believe you can muscle you're way through anything with lockers as you attempt to show with a pic.

How absurd. When did I make the claim I can't muscle you're way through anything with lockers. I can't do most of the lines my pals on 43's + lockers run. And those lines are far easier than some of the most difficult mountain passes and peaks in your home state of Colorado

I know that's BS, with 37's + lockers + expert spotting you can't do some of the most difficult mountain passes and peaks in my home state of Colorado

I'd like to see you follow me up this river bed. No one has made it without 35+ & lockers.

 

[jeepoch]

@J0E,

Wow are you ever the Super Jeeperman.

All the rest of us sub standard non top-of-the-line 'can't lockem up whenever we want' plebes, we should just stay home and bow to your omnipotent superiority.

I'll take my open diffs anywhere I care to go. I know where my limits and that of my equipment are. I take the physics of traction and torque control seriously with full realization of where lockers may or may not have an advantage. But above all, I will never condescend those that want to explore this amazing planet without needing to grind, carve, plow or prove they can leap the tallest boulder in a single bound.

Rock on dude, you rule.

I hope you run into me and my Sport somewhere out in the Colorado wilderness. I'll wave while you're doing circles around the rest of us.

Best regards,
Jay

 

[dragoneggs]

Hey J0e... why don't you come down off your high horse and impart your wisdom in an enjoyable way?

 

[CaJLMetalHead]

" Plenty of us routinely hit 50 MPH in our Rubicons in 4 low. "

Well, I routinely hit 90 MPH in 4-LO with front and rear lockers engaged while drifting and performing the tightest figure 8s known to men with my sticky 40 inch tires on asphalt.. I do this every morning !!

Of course.. I am joking.. so please do not throw virtual rocks at me... LOL
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[J0E]

@J0E,

Wow are you ever the Super Jeeperman.

Why the ad hominem attack? Hardly, probably slightly above average serious Ruby wheeler. Rubies are super offroad rigs. My wife has very little experience or talent for wheeling, but in LR M1, full lockers, and me spotting, she can easily crawl through lines you couldn't come close to doing. It's the Ruby and average spotting, not super jeepWoman. The good spotters in my club are much better than me. 2/3rds of the women in my club are better wheelers and spotters than me.

@J0E,

All the rest of us sub standard non top-of-the-line 'can't lockem up whenever we want' plebes, we should just stay home and bow to your omnipotent superiority.

You really should stop reading minds, you're so bad at it. How did you infer that? All I did was defend against your locker bashing and point out your many incorrect statements. Your mindreading about the lockers crowd when you don't wheel with them started this:

@AVGeek99,
For those Rubicon jocks that simply push the little button and lock em up at first blush, they're simply not understanding all the physics involved.

I pointed out how inaccurate that condescending mind reading is.

@J0E,

But above all, I will never condescend those that want to explore this amazing planet without needing to grind, carve, plow or prove they can leap the tallest boulder in a single bound.

Rock on dude, you rule.

But you will spew sarcastic insulting.

 

[jeepoch]

@J0E,

Wow, yet again. You would make a truly amazing movie critic. But even light-hearted sarcasm seems to get you wound up around the axle.

I am not trying to push your buttons, but I'm obviously not able to make the point that you don't need a Rubicon to really do well and have a lot of fun. Rubicon's are certainly way cool but not everyone has the wherewithall to own one. And in no way are you ever going to take the joy out of my Jeeping experience.

Accomplishing terrain without lockers does indeed increase my fun factor. But I do have a good sense of where my limits are. You obviously can't understand this from my perspective.

I'll continue to share my insights at Jeeping with or without lockers while not being snobbish or condescending in doing so. If you continue to be triggered (for whatever reason), oh well.

Best regards, take care.
Jay

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