Electric mode temporarily unavailable.

Mike-A

Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
4
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2005 wrangler unlimited
Just finished another test run with lots more data collected. Any other similar results from this group?

TLDR: Results - My 4xe only goes 14.5 miles on the battery at 60 mph in Electric Mode. After a certain amount of time or miles operating the ICE in Hybrid Mode, I am able to turn Electric Mode back on and able to do this multiple times if I wait long enough for what I am assuming is the battery system to cool down. Caution - Regenerative braking (not just Max Regen) may not always be operational.

8/10/21 – 2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon Electric Mode Test

Attempted a test drive in Electric Mode only to see how close this vehicle can get to the dash display prediction of 21 battery miles.

Results from two tests conclude this vehicle is only able to go 14.5 miles on battery despite the 21 mile prediction.

Contributing factors: 35” Tires, AC ON, 94F/87F ambient, two previous failures of the battery coolant pump (prior to new tires).

Test #1 – 94F ambient, light breeze, flat road, 60 mph using cruise control, Max Regen ON, Electric Mode selected

0-1.3 miles – Vehicle operated normally on battery.
1.3 miles – ICE kicked on for approximately 10 seconds then shut off. Remained in Electric Mode.
Traveled 13.3 miles on battery.
At 14.6 miles – “Electric Mode Unavailable”, ICE turns on and defaults to Hybrid Mode.
Drove 10.3 miles back home on ICE in Hybrid Mode


Test #2 – 81F ambient, no wind, flat road, 60 mph set using cruise control, Max Regen ON, Electric Mode selected.

0-6.3 miles – Vehicle operated normally on battery at 60 mph. Average Battery Load 43kW

At 6.4 miles – “Electric Mode Unavailable”, ICE turns on and defaults to Hybrid Mode.
Engine Load 8kW, Battery Load 30kW.
After 1 minute – Engine 22kW / Battery 10kW
After 2 minutes – Engine 21kW / Battery 8kW
After 3 minutes / 8.4 miles combined (6.4 battery / 2.0 ICE) operating in Hybrid Mode, Electric Mode becomes available again and is selected.
Traveled 5.6 miles on battery only. Battery Load 42kW

At 14 miles combined (12 battery / 2 ICE) End of road, must now turn around.
Experienced a Total Loss of all regenerative braking. Only the vehicle brakes are slowing the vehicle down and bringing it to a stop. Charge % needle remains at 0. Accelerated conservatively after turning around and immediately “Electric Mode Unavailable”, ICE turns on and defaults to Hybrid Mode.
Traveled 2.4 miles / 2 minutes 30 seconds on ICE in Hybrid Mode
Engine 21kW / Battery 12kW

At 16.4 miles combined (12 battery / 4.4 ICE) – Electric Mode becomes available again and is selected
16% life / 4 miles range of battery remaining per the display
Traveled 2 miles on battery only. Battery Load 43kW

At 18.4 miles combined (14 battery / 4.4 ICE) – “Electric Mode Unavailable”, ICE turns on, and defaults to Hybrid Mode.
Traveled 4 miles / 4 minutes on ICE in Hybrid Mode. Engine 23kW / Battery 11kW

At 22.4 miles combined (14 battery / 8.4 ICE) – Electric Mode becomes available again.
Traveled .4 mile / 30 seconds on battery only

At 22.8 miles combined (14.4 battery / 8.4 ICE) – “Electric Mode Unavailable”, ICE turns on and defaults to Hybrid Mode.
Traveled 1.4 miles / 1 minute 10 seconds on ICE in Hybrid Mode. Loads not recorded.
1% life / 1 mile range of battery remaining per the display

At 24.2 miles combined (14.4 battery / 9.8 ICE) – Electric Mode becomes available again and is selected.
Traveled .1 miles on battery only

At 24.4 miles combined (14.5 battery / 9.8 ICE) – “Electric Mode Unavailable”, ICE turns on and defaults to Hybrid Mode
After 1.5 miles on ICE in Hybrid Mode, <1% life / 0 miles of battery range remaining per the display.

Electric Mode Unavailable Battery Level Too Low and vehicle is driven 7.4 miles back home on ICE in Hybrid Mode.
Nice job with the testing. Something definitely seems wrong and I don’t think 35” tires are to blame.
Advertisement

 

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
@Mike-A
Thanks. I have my awesome wife to thank for collecting the notes. She is also the same woman that suggested I wait until 2022 to get the 4xe. 😞

Test drive #3 - I am very confident (but have no conclusive proof) that the issue with "Electric Mode Unavailable" is temperature related.
For todays test I was super excited to be able to operate the vehicle on the flat highway at 75 mph in Electric Mode using cruise control. We have never been able to achieve that speed in Electric Mode since back in April when we first purchased it before all the issues. 60-65mph has typically been the highest we have been able to slowly creep it up to before the ICE kicks in.
Unfortunately this excitement only lasted about 3 minutes / 5.5 miles before getting the ding and "Electric Mode Unavailable" and ICE kicked in and defaulted to Hybrid. I just gave up at that point. ☹

The difference between yesterday and today is significant regarding ambient temperature. Yesterday it was 94F and 81F when I did the testing. Today a storm front rolled through and the ambient temp was only 71F. I don't know, but this is my working theory. I am awaiting a call back from the service manager to see if we can scan this on a road test. It is already needing the engine looked at for something rattling at 1,400 rpm and the passenger side rear seat no longer folds down. 🤦‍♂️
 

Mike-A

Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
4
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2005 wrangler unlimited
I think that theory fits with my experience as well. I very slow crawling over difficult terrain in electric when mine failed. I didn’t hear any fan noise and wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was heat related. Too bad there isn’t a battery temp screen to monitor.
 

yngrshr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
46
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2004 GTO
I am still unsure how temperature would actually impact the drive mode. I haven't had any issue in high 90s temps with running in electric.
 

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
@yngrshr

Thanks for the info. Glad it is working as intended on your vehicle. Do you know what kind of kW demand you are placing on your vehicle in Electric Mode at 60+mph?

My hypothesis was that the vehicle probably has sensors in the battery coolant system that monitor fluid temperature, just like a gas engine has an engine coolant temperature sensor. My understanding is the HV battery system has its own radiators, antifreeze reservoir, circulation pumps, and even uses the cooling capabilities of the air conditioning system and compressor to maintain a stable battery temperature whether driving or plugged in.

If operating the vehicle in Electric Mode and the heat generated from the electrical load gets too hot, then it would make sense that the vehicle should stop using the Electric Mode for a while. I think that is why we end up with the "Electric Mode Temporarily Unavailable" message and the ICE kicks in and defaults back to Hybrid Mode. Taking the electrical load off of the battery system with the ICE would then give it time to cool down. Once it had cooled down sufficiently, it gives us access to the Electric Mode again.

High ambient temperatures hinder the capabilities of coolant systems to exchange the unwanted heat especially when under heavy loads.

I may be completely wrong in all of this, but I have to believe there must be temperature monitoring on a 400V DC battery system along with automated actions by the vehicle to address when the systems are outside a specified range. I also think there is something significantly still wrong with my vehicle. Hopefully it can get scanned here pretty soon.
 

Echo4papa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
355
Reaction score
450
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Occupation
Success Engineer
Makes sense, and there's definitely temperature monitoring because the batteries have their own cooling/heating.
 

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
Service center is new to the 4xe but is in agreement the vehicle should be able to achieve the stated 21 miles of electric only mileage. Test drive on Friday and we only able to go 9 miles at 50-55mph in Electric Mode before getting the "Electric Mode Temporarily Unavailable".
They are asking the techs questions about expected vehicle performance to see where to go next.
Wondering if there is a blockage in the battery coolant system on this vehicle from the previous coolant pumps that have failed?

So can anyone here go from 100% to <1% in Electric Mode in one continuous trip without the ICE running, or does it seem unreasonable to think that that this vehicle should be able to go 21 miles in Electric Mode continuously without using the gas engine at 55mph on flat roads in 74F weather with a 3mph wind at your back?
 
OP
OP

installer88

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
50
Reaction score
67
Location
acworth, ga
Vehicle(s)
2017 wrangler unlimited, ordered 2021 rubicon 4xe
Thank you for all the testing/data 4XE rubicon. You have made me rethink this. I have come to grips that my jeep doesn’t like electric mode and have just been driving in hybrid mode instead. That being said. I noticed that after I got the error the engine only added 13kw and the electric motor still used 47kw. I am certain it’s heat related, just was thinking it was electric motor heat not battery. Now you have me rethinking my original theory. I will probably bring it up again with the dealer when the latching max regen update becomes available.
 

Echo4papa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
355
Reaction score
450
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Occupation
Success Engineer
Service center is new to the 4xe but is in agreement the vehicle should be able to achieve the stated 21 miles of electric only mileage. Test drive on Friday and we only able to go 9 miles at 50-55mph in Electric Mode before getting the "Electric Mode Temporarily Unavailable".
They are asking the techs questions about expected vehicle performance to see where to go next.
Wondering if there is a blockage in the battery coolant system on this vehicle from the previous coolant pumps that have failed?

So can anyone here go from 100% to <1% in Electric Mode in one continuous trip without the ICE running, or does it seem unreasonable to think that that this vehicle should be able to go 21 miles in Electric Mode continuously without using the gas engine at 55mph on flat roads in 74F weather with a 3mph wind at your back?
I've frequently run the battery down from 100% or <1% without the ICE coming on. I've only had the forced hybrid mode happen once (possibly twice and I just wasn't aware the first time). Typically I will see around 26-27 miles on electric only with a full charge.
 

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
@installer88
Very interested to know what your dealer has to say again. Please update again when you get a chance.

@Echo4papa
Excellent. Thanks for the confirmation. This is how we originally remember our 4xe operating, but it has been in and out of the service center so much we were doubting ourselves. Much appreciated!
Our local grocery store is 5.5 miles away. 1 mile to the highway @55mph, 4 miles @70mph and then .5 mile @45mph and we can not make it there in Electric Mode. :headbang:
 

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
Turns out there are a few temp sensors on the 4xe for the battery system.😁 Some odd numbers for sure, but we'll see which ones move. Looking forward to doing some more test drives.

Screenshot_20210816-002551_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-002605_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-002618_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-002640_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-001935_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-001949_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-002000_OBD JScan.jpg

Screenshot_20210816-002021_OBD JScan.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

installer88

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
50
Reaction score
67
Location
acworth, ga
Vehicle(s)
2017 wrangler unlimited, ordered 2021 rubicon 4xe
Turns out there are a few temp sensors on the 4xe for the battery system.😁 Some odd numbers for sure, but we'll see which ones move. Looking forward to doing some more test drives.
I will update you whenever I bring it in. I didn’t know JScan could view hybrid data. Either I skipped over that module or they had an update that added it. Gonna do some logging this week to see how the temps go on mine.
 

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
I just did a search for "f)" on the BPCM and HCP to give me anything that can display temperature. Looks like we can get the rpm's of the coolant pumps also, although I'm not sure yet which is which.
New to JScan, but I'm very impressed for a $34.00 investment. $24 to register a VIN and $10.00 for an ELM327.
 
Last edited:

4xe Rubicon

Active Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2021 Jeep Wrangler 4xe Rubicon
So, it looks like when Electric Motor "B" reaches 330 degrees F is when my vehicle gives me the message "Electric Mode Temporarily Unavailable". When it cools off to below 290 F or so it allows me to use Electric Mode again.
Now the question is, is Electric Motor "B" P1F or P2, and what are their normal operating temperatures?

Motor A vs B.jpg

Motor B Spike.jpg

Motor B Temp Sensor.jpg
 

jahysea

Active Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
45
Location
Napa
Vehicle(s)
00 TJ (sold), 08 JK Rubicon, 21 4xe Rubicon
Just came across this and read the whole thread. Interesting research. I have a 4xe on 37's and have recalibrated it with a Tazer JL. I live in Northern CA and regularly drive in high temperatures. I have never had this issue. I mostly drive around town but if I do drive highway I get 18 or so miles on electric only at ~60 mph before the normal transition to hybrid mode. I think:
  • The data you compiled makes a compelling case for this being heat related
  • Those having this issue clearly have a problem, this is not a feature forced on all those with larger tires.
  • Possibly your jeeps are not circulating battery coolant effectively?
 
Advertisement

Hothead Headliners
 
Advertisement
Top