Eco Diesel and Tunes

JLURD

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Sure, EPA is federal, but who do they pretty much bend over and hand a jar of vaseline to? CARB. Aka California.

The GDE tunes were well known to increase mileage on the ecodiesel, increase longevity, and in most cases passed emissions too. Plus they took things like the throttle lag out as well as addressed some of the goofy shifting FCA put in place on the 8 speed.

I would really. Like REALLY like to see a genuine, unbiased, all encompassing evaluation of the diesel emissions eco system and see if all the rules diesel have on them is worth it. I mean would the fuel economy gain from unrestricted diesels outweigh the global emissions we emit just to restrict our new diesels and make them eat more fuel?

Think about it, just off the top of my head

  • We created an entire economy: buildings, shipping, manufacturing, mining etc all to create, ship, install, maintain, and recycle additional items for diesel emissions. IE an entire economy that didn't exist as recently as 1998.
  • We have to mine, manufacture, ship, install, and recycle DPF filters. Does all the emissions associated with making a single DPF filter outweigh the soot emissions of the one truck it will be installed on. What about when failures with clogged DPFs are considered, now the emissions just to put a DPF on one truck are 2,3,4 times as high depending on how often it happens.
  • We manufacture and ship DEF all over the world to pour into a truck and cause a chemical reaction in the exhaust to have slightly better emissions. What about the shipping, manufacturing, labs for testing, buildings, warehousing etc? Does the slightly lower emissions outweigh all that?
  • All the extra cabling, wiring, tubing, sensors, etc that have to go onto a new diesel just to make the emissions system "work"
  • We put EGR systems on diesels that soot up the engines and cause additional failures. Same thing, does the emissions associated with recycling a failed engine plus the process of manufacturing them outweigh the minor emissions gains from feeding dirty air back into the engine?
I get there is an economy of scale behind these things, but no matter how I look at it, I can't agree that all the crap we go through just to lower some emissions at the tailpipe are an actual net gain for emissions globally. Especially when after all this crap is installed, the vehicle in question now looses an significant amount of efficiency and often has to have parts replaced.

Now let me be clear in stating that I in no way shape or form agree with rolling coal. Honestly those people are probably 40% of the reason we keep getting additional restrictions.

When tuned correctly and maintained, a diesel puts out a pretty minimal amount of smoke unless towing lots of weight.

If the EPA said hey we are banning tunes, but also removing the requirements for all the extra crap, I would be all for it. But it will never happen. The world has a vendetta against diesel. Its unfortunate but true.

Heck at one point, direct injection gas engines were actually more polluting than "dirty diesels" and yet it took years to finally put restrictions on those. Those restrictions are still cake compared to current diesel rules.

Here is one such study on direct injection gas engines back in 2013, when Def was introduced for diesel engines in the USA. Mind you diesel had DPF filter for around 10 years before this even.

https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/particle-emissions-petrol-cars
You’ll never get a complete and honest scientific/political assessment of emissions mitigation costs vs benefits because the people pushing the regulations either don’t comprehend science or willfully abuse it in service of themselves...they’ll tell you it’s to save the world and either believe their own lies or have ulterior motives.





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MCJA

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@bruno747 , fantastic response. You're spot on.

Everything you said reminds me of people who think they are "zero emissions" because they drive an all-electric car. No, you just have a really long exhaust pipe. Somebody somewhere is burning something to power your car. And even if you have all renewable energy (solar, wind, geothermal, etc.), you still have all of the emissions of the factories that produce those systems.

Unless we call go back to living in caves, we're going to create emissions. I think we should all do our part to reduce that as much as possible. But we also all need to have a holistic view... not just the view of the tailpipe at an emissions testing station.

Sorry to the OP. This thread has gone off the rails.

I'm all for tunes and mods for the EcoDiesel that can increase power and/or efficiency, without reducing either.
 
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Tank the Jeep

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I was in an environmental meeting today. One of the speakers was from EPA. He mentioned the National Ambient Air Quality Standards are set with the thinking that new cars have working emission equipment. He specifically mentioned diesels. And that EPA will be going after shops that bypass emission equipment. He didn’t say anything about tunes, but if it changes emissions they might include that. That is twice now that I have heard of EPA starting an initiative on the vehicle aftermarket.

What bothers me is the thought that big tires changes economy and therefore emissions per mile too.
 

JLURD

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I was in an environmental meeting today. One of the speakers was from EPA. He mentioned the National Ambient Air Quality Standards are set with the thinking that new cars have working emission equipment. He specifically mentioned diesels. And that EPA will be going after shops that bypass emission equipment. He didn’t say anything about tunes, but if it changes emissions they might include that. That is twice now that I have heard of EPA starting an initiative on the vehicle aftermarket.

What bothers me is the thought that big tires changes economy and therefore emissions per mile too.
Aren’t you glad the EPA has been tooling up on our dime?
https://www.investors.com/politics/...es-epa-need-guns-ammo-to-protect-environment/
 

MCJA

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What bothers me is the thought that big tires changes economy and therefore emissions per mile too.
At least for now, emissions are measured as a ratio (usually in parts per million), not a total volume, not as an amount per mile. So as long as you're running the stock tune or something "cleaner", you're ok. Hopefully it stays that way.
 

2020 Diesel JL

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You’ll never get a complete and honest scientific/political assessment of emissions mitigation costs vs benefits because the people pushing the regulations either don’t comprehend science or willfully abuse it in service of themselves...they’ll tell you it’s to save the world and either believe their own lies or have ulterior motives.
Have you been to India or China. A friend of mine just returned from India with some pictures of the water and smog. If you want to save the world start there. It is unbelievable.
 

JLURD

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Have you been to India or China. A friend of mine just returned from India with some pictures of the water and smog. If you want to save the world start there. It is unbelievable.
China can’t even be bothered to adhere to the Montreal protocol re CFCs, so your time would be better spent teaching astrophysics to gerbils than convincing China to clean up its act.
 

Bamaprof

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Sure, EPA is federal, but who do they pretty much bend over and hand a jar of vaseline to? CARB. Aka California.

The GDE tunes were well known to increase mileage on the ecodiesel, increase longevity, and in most cases passed emissions too. Plus they took things like the throttle lag out as well as addressed some of the goofy shifting FCA put in place on the 8 speed.

I would really. Like REALLY like to see a genuine, unbiased, all encompassing evaluation of the diesel emissions eco system and see if all the rules diesel have on them is worth it. I mean would the fuel economy gain from unrestricted diesels outweigh the global emissions we emit just to restrict our new diesels and make them eat more fuel?

Think about it, just off the top of my head

  • We created an entire economy: buildings, shipping, manufacturing, mining etc all to create, ship, install, maintain, and recycle additional items for diesel emissions. IE an entire economy that didn't exist as recently as 1998.
  • We have to mine, manufacture, ship, install, and recycle DPF filters. Does all the emissions associated with making a single DPF filter outweigh the soot emissions of the one truck it will be installed on. What about when failures with clogged DPFs are considered, now the emissions just to put a DPF on one truck are 2,3,4 times as high depending on how often it happens.
  • We manufacture and ship DEF all over the world to pour into a truck and cause a chemical reaction in the exhaust to have slightly better emissions. What about the shipping, manufacturing, labs for testing, buildings, warehousing etc? Does the slightly lower emissions outweigh all that?
  • All the extra cabling, wiring, tubing, sensors, etc that have to go onto a new diesel just to make the emissions system "work"
  • We put EGR systems on diesels that soot up the engines and cause additional failures. Same thing, does the emissions associated with recycling a failed engine plus the process of manufacturing them outweigh the minor emissions gains from feeding dirty air back into the engine?
I get there is an economy of scale behind these things, but no matter how I look at it, I can't agree that all the crap we go through just to lower some emissions at the tailpipe are an actual net gain for emissions globally. Especially when after all this crap is installed, the vehicle in question now looses an significant amount of efficiency and often has to have parts replaced.

Now let me be clear in stating that I in no way shape or form agree with rolling coal. Honestly those people are probably 40% of the reason we keep getting additional restrictions.

When tuned correctly and maintained, a diesel puts out a pretty minimal amount of smoke unless towing lots of weight.

If the EPA said hey we are banning tunes, but also removing the requirements for all the extra crap, I would be all for it. But it will never happen. The world has a vendetta against diesel. Its unfortunate but true.

Heck at one point, direct injection gas engines were actually more polluting than "dirty diesels" and yet it took years to finally put restrictions on those. Those restrictions are still cake compared to current diesel rules.

Here is one such study on direct injection gas engines back in 2013, when Def was introduced for diesel engines in the USA. Mind you diesel had DPF filter for around 10 years before this even.

https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/particle-emissions-petrol-cars
Excellent observations! I would add the lower fuel economy causes much more fuel to be burned hurting wallets, atmosphere and fuel supplies.
 

bryan8379

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Anyone near Dirty Diesel Customs in B.C. ? They said they think they could do a full delete and tune but would need a few days to create and tweak the file. They are working with CCS tuning. They might give you a good deal if you're the first to work with them.
 

Bamaprof

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Anyone near Dirty Diesel Customs in B.C. ? They said they think they could do a full delete and tune but would need a few days to create and tweak the file. They are working with CCS tuning. They might give you a good deal if you're the first to work with them.
I’m in Alabama but would almost be willing to make the drive!!
 

bryan8379

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I’m in Alabama but would almost be willing to make the drive!!
I was thinking the same thing
Honestly if it was a for sure thing I'd make the drive but I'd hate to drive up there and hangout for a few days and then it not work out.
 

WXman

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GDE is working on a Gen 3 tune and they said "18 months" to have it ready. As you know, everything GDE does is top notch, heavily tested, and nearly flawless before it's offered for sale, so it'll be worth waiting on.

It sounds like they can do everything we want (better MPG, less soot, better throttle response, less risk of fire, more longevity, etc.) while still keeping emissions equipment intact so that it's legal.

Or, you can order from Canada and get rid of all the emissions crap that does nothing but hurt automakers, owners, and oil reserves.
 

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