Dumping factory fill. What oil is everyone running?

Jelllo

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Mopar filter that I bought from selling dealer for about $8 CAD and Pennzoil Platinum 0W20. One benefit is if there are any warranty issues with the engine, the dealer has a record of when I bought the oil filter and supposedly changed the oil. Also I compared the Mopar filter to the Fram and the Fram looked just as good as the Mopar, but was more expensive. In fact every other filter was more expensive compared to the dealer price.



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VNT

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I picked up 3 jugs of GT (5 qt) on clearance at Autozone for $10, got the $10 rebate, and used $30 in rewards. So SOPUS paid me $30 bucks to take their oil! Lol!

One of the jugs of GT is 0w20, the other two are 5w20. I'll run the 0w20 in my daughter's Renegade and the 5w in my JK. She piles on miles much faster than I do, and I've still got a couple jugs of Mobil 1 AP for the JL. I've also got a few boxes of Chevron Havoline Pro DS 0w20, which I think will be a very good oil, too, so I've got a nice stash built up of 0w20. I may run the Pro DS at some point in the JL. Maybe.
I did likewise, got 4 jugs of 5w-30, for 10$ each, did the rebate so cost was zippo, guess I have a few buck on my account for the rewards.
one year I got 48 qts of PP as I recall for 2$ each and then sumitted the rebate for all 48 qts, so that was another zippo score.

I think I got some of the Fram Ultras off amazon for 4$ each.

another guy on Bitog gave me heads up, redline was running 5 gallon pail specials about 5 years ago, got a pail of 75w-90 and 75w-140 for 75$ each delivered to my door, that was a satifying score since the good gear oil with the additive are expensive!
 

DanW

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Oil is a religion. There are brand adherents that are best describes as cult members. Truth is, the expensive stuff really isn’t any better than the average priced stuff, and the average price stuff goes on sale to be cheaper than the cheap stuff. Change early, change often, and you’re gonna be happy.

I’ll likely continue to use any SOPUS product in 0W-20. I’ve replaced the factory fill with Shell Rotella Gas Truck, and will use the same on the next change, but may switch to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum now that’s is available in reasonably priced 5 gallon jugs.

Mopar, Purolator One, or Wix filters are all good.
Not exactly technically true, but for 99% of people and engines, most likely true. PAO base stocks are what once were called true synthetics. Most full synthetic oils today are mostly group III base stocks, which are basically hyper-refined ground oil. Pennzoil's Platinum line is a group III that is refined from natural gas. They are great oils and will in most cases offer excellent performance. However, PAO based oils typically perform better at extreme temperatures. So, technically, some are better than others. Will our engines know the difference? Probably not, unless you go beyond the limits of a group III or GTL oil, which most of us won't.

I do know a guy who worked in mines in northern Canada where temps regularly get down to or even below -40 f. He ran a JK with a 3.8. He said that he and co-workers with vehicles knew they needed to run PAO based oils, such as Mobil 1 EP, Amsoil, or Redline, or their vehicles struggled to start. He ran Mobil 1 EP 5w20. He said he tried Castrol and it was jello and his engine sounded and felt horrible when started, whereas with the M1, it started much better and without nearly as much noise. He said the M1 flowed much better at those temps than the Castrol, which was a group III. So there are conditions where it makes a difference.

I run M1 or Pennzoil Ultra, not because of religious fanaticism or because I'm driving in conditions that would cause other oils to struggle. I do it because if they have even a 1% better in the conditions in which I drive, it gives me more confidence. I also run them because the top oils from Exxon Mobil and SOPUS have served me very well for 35 years. Of those two, I've mostly run Mobil 1. As stated before, there is some Havoline Pro DS in my stash and I also have about 6 quarts of Castrol Magnatec, so I clearly don't think other oils are going to cause any harm, but are in fact very good in their own right.

Disclaimer....Not all Mobil 1 oils are mostly PAO base stock. "Regular" Mobil 1 is mostly group III, but may have at least a small percentage of PAO. It varies from oil to oil and weight to weight. Mobil 1 EP or AP 0w20 are mostly PAO base stock, as told to me by an Exxon Mobil rep. Amsoil has PAO base stock made by guess who? Exxon Mobil. Redline is said to have PAO base stock. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was once believed to have PAO base stock, but is now GTL (Gas to liquid) group III. Interestingly, some Mobil 1 oils have GTL base stocks made by guess who? SOPUS (Shell/Pennzoil). Although, Exxon Mobil does have some capacity to produce GTL, just not as much or as cheaply as SOPUS, which has invested heavily in its production.

One clue of PAO presence is the pour point and the flash point. Mobil 1 AP 0w20 has among the lowest pour points and highest flash points on the market. So does Amsoil's 0w20. You can be pretty sure they are PAO because GTL or group III's can't quite hit those extreme numbers, especially for flash point. (For reference, M1 AP 0w20 pour point is -59.8 f, and its flash point is 467.6 f. EP is very close. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, which again I think is outstanding oil, has a pour point of -54.4 and a flash point of 406.4, respectively.) Even many heavier weight oils won't get close to the flash point of the "thin" M1 AP 0w20. That tells you it has higher PAO content. Is it a big difference? No, especially the pour point. Is it a difference? Yes.

One other difference is that PAO's resist oxidation better, which means they can run longer. That's why M1EP is rated at 15k miles and AP at 20k. Amsoil's Signature is 25k, I think. I would not run that far on any of them, but especially not on a group III base. When oils oxidize, they'll break down and then thicken. They'll increase insolubles in the oil, which leads to wear and loading up the oil filter. That would not be good.
 

CarbonSteel

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I run M1 or Pennzoil Ultra, not because of religious fanaticism or because I'm driving in conditions that would cause other oils to struggle.
Are you referring to other synthetics or conventional oils? Granted FCA has specified 0W-20 as the recommended oil, which typically means a synthetic oil, but I would daresay short of running 24x7 across the Mojave desert, I know of no SN rated oil that would not hold up to anything a 3.6L can throw at it. Additionally, I doubt any of us are running a synthetic oil for its full usable life, we dump them far too early, which means lesser oils would suffice. I am not saying this to argue, but I do question what we as Jeep owners would be doing that a SN rated oil would not hold up against.

With that said, I am running Castrol Edge and I dump it at 5K miles with the full knowledge that it can go far longer than that.
 

DanW

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Are you referring to other synthetics or conventional oils? Granted FCA has specified 0W-20 as the recommended oil, which typically means a synthetic oil, but I would daresay short of running 24x7 across the Mojave desert, I know of no SN rated oil that would not hold up to anything a 3.6L can throw at it. Additionally, I doubt any of us are running a synthetic oil for its full usable life, we dump them far too early, which means lesser oils would suffice. I am not saying this to argue, but I do question what we as Jeep owners would be doing that a SN rated oil would not hold up against.

With that said, I am running Castrol Edge and I dump it at 5K miles with the full knowledge that it can go far longer than that.
I agree 100%. I've mostly run synthetic. I ran Pennzoil yellow bottle in my first couple of cars before moving to Mobil 1 and they did fine. You are also right about the 3.6 being easy on oil. I also think you are right about service life. I think in the 3.6, Mobil 1 AP could run the full 20k miles and still be serviceable, if not actually still looking decent. It is designed for turbo DI engines for 20k, so the 3.6 shoudl be a relative cake walk.

The main reason I change my oil usually at 5k (6k in my JK, 10k in my Transit) is because I really like running the 3.6/manual hard through the entire powerband and through the gears and I just feel better knowing the oil is in excellent shape. It is just too easy and cheap to change in the JL, so it makes me feel better to change it. I'm sticking with the current M1 AP fill until the oil life monitor says 0%, though. I'm sure it will eat at me a bit, but it'll be fine, I'm sure, Lol!

I did run Pennzoil Ultra 0w20 for an OCI and the UOA came out great. My Ford F150 seemed to really like Castrol Magnatec. In my head, anyway, it felt smoother.

The only 0w20 I've seen that was not full synthetic was Pennzoil Gold.
 

Jelllo

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I also think you are right about service life. I think in the 3.6, Mobil 1 AP could run the full 20k miles and still be serviceable, if not actually still looking decent. It is designed for turbo DI engines for 20k, so the 3.6 shoudl be a relative cake walk.
I wouldn't run any oil on extended service level without frequent oil sampling. I've seen first hand what can happen. We had a customer running Amsoil and he had major issues with valve train wear. For the price of oil, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
 

DanW

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I wouldn't run any oil on extended service level without frequent oil sampling. I've seen first hand what can happen. We had a customer running Amsoil and he had major issues with valve train wear. For the price of oil, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Exactly...that's why I said you could, but not that I would. It is a VERY stout oil. However, I'd be a nervous wreck doing that. That said, on BITOG, there are several who ran M1 AP to 20k miles and did UOA's and the oil was still serviceable. When I say serviceable, I mean able to do its job under normal driving. I wouldn't want to run the engine hard with it, though.

I'm going to run the current fill of M1AP to 7500 to 8000 or wherever the oil life monitor lands. I am confident it will still be in great shape at that point. If I run something other than AP, I'll go with a 5k interval. I will get a UOA to see how it is. I think I ran 7000 or so on AP before and it was in fine shape and would have undoubtedly been able to go much longer. But not in my baby. ;)

One of my priorities is a clean engine, too, and I think between 5k and 10k with M1AP would easily ensure that.

Btw, at some point my JK's 3.8 will get the valve covers off (by the dealer, under lifetime warranty) to replace the gaskets. It seems to be a long way from that, but when it happens, I'll have them take photos. It currently has 138k on it. I've run mostly Mobil 1 oils with a few runs of Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra, a run of Valvoline ME, and I think one or two of Quaker State synthetic. I'd say 85% Mobil 1. I've got Rotella Gas Truck 5w20 or 5w30 on deck (Got it free, on clearance, after rebate). It will be interesting to see how clean the engine is. I expect it to look very good. It has had 6k intervals, as that is the warranty limit for that engine.
 

DanW

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Go to BITOG and see actual filters cut open by people not trying to make money by getting YouTube views.

You also did not answer my question.
 

blnewt

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@DanW
Always had good UOAs on Pennz Plat (not Ultra) w/ my Infiniti G w/ 6k OCIs (at 105k miles thus far), at that OCI is there really much difference in protection between regular Plat vs. Ultra? FWIW I don't hit redline in in the JL, but run spirited drives but not for extended time. I've done long high speed driving in the G w/ still excellent UOAs.

I'll plan on just running as I am unless you happen to think the Ultra is worth it long term. Also have about 75k worth of Mobil 1 filters on hand so I'm not changing that part of the equation :)

Also, while you're here, I have a 03 Toyota 4Runner V6 that I just bought, these are prone to head gasket issues and noticed a bit of oil in the rear main seal area behind the pan. I just changed the oil w/ Wall Mart SuperTech 5w/30 Full Synthetic High Mileage oil and have a bunch of basic red Purolator filters from my old T-100 so I'm using them (even though they are a bargain filter). I plan on quick OCIs of 4k miles since the filters aren't great and that oil is very affordable. I don't have a problem going to different filters but since I have about 5 of them stashed I figure I'll use em up quick. I plan on sending a Blackstone in after 4k on the current oil. Also there's no smoke at startup and no oil seep on the top end of the motor (that I can notice). Is that Supertech HM decent in regard to seal "assistance"? I have an extra jug of Valvoline Maxlife HM that I can use after this first change, is that a bad idea to go back to dino for one change then revert back to Supertech? I've heard that Maxlife is about the best for seal help on older motors.

Appreciate your input and you should have your own DansTheOilGuy subforum on this site, would be popular I'd think :)
B
 
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DanW

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@DanW
Always had good UOAs on Pennz Plat (not Ultra) w/ my Infiniti G w/ 6k OCIs (at 105k miles thus far), at that OCI is there really much difference in protection between regular Plat vs. Ultra? FWIW I don't hit redline in in the JL, but run spirited drives but not for extended time. I've done long high speed driving in the G w/ still excellent UOAs.

I'll plan on just running as I am unless you happen to think the Ultra is worth it long term. Also have about 75k worth of Mobil 1 filters on hand so I'm not changing that part of the equation :)

Also, while you're here, I have a 03 Toyota 4Runner V6 that I just bought, these are prone to head gasket issues and noticed a bit of oil in the rear main seal area behind the pan. I just changed the oil w/ Wall Mart SuperTech 5w/30 Full Synthetic High Mileage oil and have a bunch of basic red Purolator filters from my old T-100 so I'm using them (even though they are a bargain filter). I plan on quick OCIs of 4k miles since the filters aren't great and that oil is very affordable. I don't have a problem going to different filters but since I have about 5 of them stashed I figure I'll use em up quick. I plan on sending a Blackstone in after 4k on the current oil. Also there's no smoke at startup and no oil seep on the top end of the motor (that I can notice). Is that Supertech HM decent in regard to seal "assistance"? I have an extra jug of Valvoline Maxlife HM that I can use after this first change, is that a bad idea to go back to dino for one change then revert back to Supertech? I've heard that Maxlife is about the best for seal help on older motors.

Appreciate your input and you should have your own DansTheOilGuy subforum on this site, would be popular I'd think :)
B
Nope, at 6k OCI there is probably so little difference between Platinum and Ultra that you'd have to own a lab to discover it. If I were choosing between the two, though, I'd run Ultra based on my driving style and Pennzoil's claims of its advantages, which again, may not be realized in these engines.

I like your plan on the 4 Runner but I have no clue as to the seal conditioners in HM oils. I assume they are there and they are certainly worth a try. If it doesn't help, try a run of Valvoline Maxlife. They created the HM niche. I've heard people swear by it, too. I think the main thing for me with the Toyota engines is avoiding sludge, so whatever oil it is, I'd run a full synthetic with a rep for cleaning and a high flash point. The full synthetic plan worked for my older 4 Runners that had the sludge-o-matic 3.4. My two 3.4's never showed any signs of sludging. (I ran Mobil 1 5w30 in them.) I never dealt with any seepage at the rear, though, so again, I think you are spot-on in trying the HM oils.

Btw...I think your Toyota engine is model years beyond the sludge issues and that shouldn't really be a factor. Mine were 96 and I think 2000 3.4 engines. The 96's were in the group that had the biggest problems with that.

I've said this before, but I think preference is the biggest factor in the high end oils. Any premium full syn should do wondefully well in a 3.6 Pentastar. It is a hobby or interest for me, so I always try and go for what I believe is the PAO base stock and extra 1% in the stats, so I like Mobil 1. As for UOA's, I'm pretty sure Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra have given the most consistent good UOA's I've seen over the years across the widest variety of engines, in terms of wear metals. (Not sure they indicate how fast an engine is actually wearing, but that's a whole different discussion. Low numbers would have to be a good thing, though, I think.)
 

blnewt

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@DanW Thanks for the thorough reply, it'll be interesting to see the Blackstone on the Toyota, and I believe you're correct that the 03 4liter V6 was after the sludge-infested model range. I guess they replaced the sludge problem w/ head gasket issues (03 thru early 06 from what I've read). I've changed a DOHC head gasket before and I really, really don't want to do that again, but this 4Runner is so spotless that I would if it comes to it (sure as F am not paying a shop over $2k for it, lol).

So my plan on that is running that Maxlife (since I already have it) once I change this latest oil and see what the Blackstone says.

Nice to know that Pennz Plat in the JL V6 should provide more of the same that I've come to expect.
Cheers!
B

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but since you were here :)
 

scrape

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Not exactly technically true, but for 99% of people and engines, most likely true. PAO base stocks are what once were called true synthetics. Most full synthetic oils today are mostly group III base stocks, which are basically hyper-refined ground oil. Pennzoil's Platinum line is a group III that is refined from natural gas. They are great oils and will in most cases offer excellent performance. However, PAO based oils typically perform better at extreme temperatures. So, technically, some are better than others. Will our engines know the difference? Probably not, unless you go beyond the limits of a group III or GTL oil, which most of us won't.

I do know a guy who worked in mines in northern Canada where temps regularly get down to or even below -40 f. He ran a JK with a 3.8. He said that he and co-workers with vehicles knew they needed to run PAO based oils, such as Mobil 1 EP, Amsoil, or Redline, or their vehicles struggled to start. He ran Mobil 1 EP 5w20. He said he tried Castrol and it was jello and his engine sounded and felt horrible when started, whereas with the M1, it started much better and without nearly as much noise. He said the M1 flowed much better at those temps than the Castrol, which was a group III. So there are conditions where it makes a difference.

I run M1 or Pennzoil Ultra, not because of religious fanaticism or because I'm driving in conditions that would cause other oils to struggle. I do it because if they have even a 1% better in the conditions in which I drive, it gives me more confidence. I also run them because the top oils from Exxon Mobil and SOPUS have served me very well for 35 years. Of those two, I've mostly run Mobil 1. As stated before, there is some Havoline Pro DS in my stash and I also have about 6 quarts of Castrol Magnatec, so I clearly don't think other oils are going to cause any harm, but are in fact very good in their own right.

Disclaimer....Not all Mobil 1 oils are mostly PAO base stock. "Regular" Mobil 1 is mostly group III, but may have at least a small percentage of PAO. It varies from oil to oil and weight to weight. Mobil 1 EP or AP 0w20 are mostly PAO base stock, as told to me by an Exxon Mobil rep. Amsoil has PAO base stock made by guess who? Exxon Mobil. Redline is said to have PAO base stock. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was once believed to have PAO base stock, but is now GTL (Gas to liquid) group III. Interestingly, some Mobil 1 oils have GTL base stocks made by guess who? SOPUS (Shell/Pennzoil). Although, Exxon Mobil does have some capacity to produce GTL, just not as much or as cheaply as SOPUS, which has invested heavily in its production.

One clue of PAO presence is the pour point and the flash point. Mobil 1 AP 0w20 has among the lowest pour points and highest flash points on the market. So does Amsoil's 0w20. You can be pretty sure they are PAO because GTL or group III's can't quite hit those extreme numbers, especially for flash point. (For reference, M1 AP 0w20 pour point is -59.8 f, and its flash point is 467.6 f. EP is very close. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, which again I think is outstanding oil, has a pour point of -54.4 and a flash point of 406.4, respectively.) Even many heavier weight oils won't get close to the flash point of the "thin" M1 AP 0w20. That tells you it has higher PAO content. Is it a big difference? No, especially the pour point. Is it a difference? Yes.

One other difference is that PAO's resist oxidation better, which means they can run longer. That's why M1EP is rated at 15k miles and AP at 20k. Amsoil's Signature is 25k, I think. I would not run that far on any of them, but especially not on a group III base. When oils oxidize, they'll break down and then thicken. They'll increase insolubles in the oil, which leads to wear and loading up the oil filter. That would not be good.
Someone brings up the motor oil cult/religion, and you post 6 paragraphs about base stock... hopefully you can see the irony.

Oil performance is dictated largely by the additive package, and how those additives work in conjunction with the base stock blend. Go put pure PAO in your engine at -40F and I will run additized dino oil. Since I'm nice, I'll even give you a ride home after your engine blows up.
 

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Someone brings up the motor oil cult/religion, and you post 6 paragraphs about base stock... hopefully you can see the irony.

Oil performance is dictated largely by the additive package, and how those additives work in conjunction with the base stock blend. Go put pure PAO in your engine at -40F and I will run additized dino oil. Since I'm nice, I'll even give you a ride home after your engine blows up.
Great job reading my post and understanding none of it.

Show me where I mentioned pure PAO with no add pack? Also, show.me a non-PAO base stock 0w20 that has a lower pour point than M1AP, Amsoil, or Redline? You won't. It doesn't exist.
 
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