Does nobody love bare bones Jeeps anymore?!

Jebiruph

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Tell us how you roll the back seat windows down? Stretch Armstrong? Gumby? How fun is it trying to unlock the back doors? Inconvenience doesn't equal reliability.
I usually leave the doors unlocked. To roll down the back seat window, I open the door and roll down the window, no key needed.





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Heimkehr

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Inconvenience doesn't equal reliability.
When complexity is reduced or absent, reliability can increase. Absolutely it can.

Inconvenience is subjective. E.g., the absence of power window switches. What one person might perceive as the source of indescribable suffering, another might give no thought to as he opens the rear doors to lower the glass.
 

Zandcwhite

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When complexity is reduced or absent, reliability can increase. Absolutely it can.

Inconvenience is subjective. E.g., the absence of power window switches. What one person might perceive as the source of indescribable suffering, another might give no thought to as he opens the rear doors to lower the glass.
Power windows/locks can fail, but so can manual ones. Neither will effect the reliability of the vehicle. I definitely wouldn't call manual windows as indescribable suffering, but on a 100⁰ day I'm not walking around the jeep rolling down windows only to pull over and roll them back up once the air conditioner gets to blowing cold either. We bought the rubicon for the lockers, sway bar disconnect, larger axles, higher clearance fenders, and 4-1 transfer case, but the power windows/locks, seat heaters, hard top with insulation panels, and alpine stereo sure do make it more enjoyable on both the +1,000 mile road trips to moab and for day to day driving duties.
 

wibornz

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Yup, I will not buy a vehicle with out headed seats and a heated steering wheel. It is so nice to be up in the mountains of Colorado with the windows down and the top open on a 50 degree day, and not have the heater blowing. Click the heated seats on and the heated steering wheel and be comfy all day. There are many times here in Michigan, the weather will be about 25 degrees, I flip the bestop sunrider open, turn on the heated seats, and steering wheel and bump the Jeep heater on and I can enjoy the cold sunshine without being bundled up.

Also on those summer days when I have to top off and the doors off and time slips away and it is after dark and cooled off, the heated seats and steering wheel can be a savior.
 

HardSell

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Inconvenience is subjective.
Proximity entry key + Proximity ignition (fob only access; fob only start) and a dead battery or batteries are a real PIA at 6ºf in a ski slope parking lot or at 105ºf in Lockhart Basin 35 miles from the nearest vehicle. Both have happened to me in mechanically sound vehicles which didn't have such "conveniences". Very minor problem with keyed door locks; keyed ignitions and manual transmissions. The alternative costs for so called "conveniences" which exponentially amplify the chances of system failure due to increased complexity of basic vehicle starting sequence without work-a-rounds are very high indeed. High costs in physical discomfort, thirst, energy, stress, frustration, humility, dollars spent on towing, lodging, and alternative transportation. Turns a much anticipated, hard earned vacation into a nightmare and possibly, delayed serious health problems related to stress such as heart attacks and stroke. Just saying.....
 

Zandcwhite

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Proximity entry key + Proximity ignition (fob only access; fob only start) and a dead battery or batteries are a real PIA at 6ºf in a ski slope parking lot or at 105ºf in Lockhart Basin 35 miles from the nearest vehicle. Both have happened to me in mechanically sound vehicles which didn't have such "conveniences". Very minor problem with keyed door locks; keyed ignitions and manual transmissions. The alternative costs for so called "conveniences" which exponentially amplify the chances of system failure due to increased complexity of basic vehicle starting sequence without work-a-rounds are very high indeed. High costs in physical discomfort, thirst, energy, stress, frustration, humility, dollars spent on towing, lodging, and alternative transportation. Turns a much anticipated, hard earned vacation into a nightmare and possibly, delayed serious health problems related to stress such as heart attacks and stroke. Just saying.....
The fob has a door key inside and the push to start button will work even if the fob has no battery if you hold the fob up to the button (beauty of rfid is only the receiver needs power to function). Starter failure, relay failure, blown fused, sensor failures, etc are issues that are no more or less likely whether keyed or push button. The modern bare bones Jeep is in no way more or less reliable than the loaded one.
 

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1 Corinthians 13:11 - " When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
 

Rogues Gambit

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I'd rock one, just need a stick, LED headlights and Aux switches

After just going to a bonfire with friends, my trucks too yuge and everyone's saying the Bronco's too Techy and shit to bother with
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Killdozer

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Factory ordered diesel with No options and used as my daily. Doors are left unlocked when on and will be off spring through fall. Enjoying no extra safety features or lane departure warnings like the wife's car. I can drive it wherever and it just goes.

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HardSell

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the push to start button will work even if the fob has no battery if you hold the fob up to the button
Ideally it will work; it failed for me in a GM rental. Several cases are mentioned in this forum regarding unexpected electrical start/run failures. All makes are vulnerable regarding electronic "convenience" features, but most are not driven in remote, challenging terrain and weather. Having done this for 50 years and experiencing many trail failures which I've been able to limp myself out of, why on earth would I invite yet another trail failure variable through optional electronic means which don't exist in simpler designs? Perhaps Stellantis will someday offer a Rubicon traction/suspension only package for all trims as does Ford with its Sasquatch package. Being able to select the simplest trim level to eliminate unnecessary (for some of us) convenience tech will give us the choice whether to purchase and deal with failure variables such tech introduces.
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.... among others. To deny that complex, cryptic, high-tech start/run schemes increase chances for unrepairable trail failure is like denying that anything unfortunate at all will ever happen on a Jeep trail. I choose to give myself and my passengers the greatest probability to return from an outing with the least amount of stress and greatest amount of joy from the experience. Convenience is wonderful until it fails.
 

Zandcwhite

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Ideally it will work; it failed for me in a GM rental. Several cases are mentioned in this forum regarding unexpected electrical start/run failures. All makes are vulnerable regarding electronic "convenience" features, but most are not driven in remote, challenging terrain and weather. Having done this for 50 years and experiencing many trail failures which I've been able to limp myself out of, why on earth would I invite yet another trail failure variable through optional electronic means which don't exist in simpler designs? Perhaps Stellantis will someday offer a Rubicon traction/suspension only package for all trims as does Ford with its Sasquatch package. Being able to select the simplest trim level to eliminate unnecessary (for some of us) convenience tech will give us the choice whether to purchase and deal with failure variables such tech introduces.
Lucky.jpg
LuckyAgain.jpg


.... among others. To deny that complex, cryptic, high-tech start/run schemes increase chances for unrepairable trail failure is like denying that anything unfortunate at all will ever happen on a Jeep trail. I choose to give myself and my passengers the greatest probability to return from an outing with the least amount of stress and greatest amount of joy from the experience. Convenience is wonderful until it fails.
Your first example is literally a dead battery, I don't think keyed start or push button work with a dead battery? The 2nd example there's no answer as to the cause. Our engines are computer controlled across all trim levels. I believe all automatics now have ess. If you envision the push button as the weak link, that's your opinion, but I don't see it as any less reliable than the key tumbler. I've had a key tumbler fail on my old wagoneer, so anything can break. If you aren't comfortable wheeling something dependent on electronics to function, the JL isn't for you.
 

JeepU4IA

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Base Sport Unlimited with no regrets here. The only option I got was limited slip for the D44 in the back. I've spent some money on mods but nothing that would have come standard on a Sahara or Rubicon.

I have yet to lock any of the doors but I do lock the tailgate to secure the Tuffy Deck Enclosure. I can't remember ever using the A/C. My soft top is completely removed from about March through November.
 

HardSell

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I've had a key tumbler fail on my old wagoneer, so anything can break. If you aren't comfortable wheeling something dependent on electronics to function, the JL isn't for you.
So have I and was able to trail repair it enough to get home. The point was the first fellow was parked in his driveway with a dead battery. I enjoyed a battery dying in the Black Hills one night, was able to roll start being parked headed down hill. Yes, a richly optioned JL is not for me, but the variables and developments are interesting. No one likes admitting weaknesses in computer or electronic systems...ask Boeing.
 
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porcusRex

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didnt read all 10 pages. bottom line, the current jeep is electrically too complicated. some modern things like fuel injection are better than what they replaced, carbs. but in general, with all the electrical wiring, buses, computers, sensors and so forth you have increased the probability for failure. so id mix some modern stuff like fuel injection and look at mechanical solutions for other things, like transmission and so forth.

if you think about it, the extreme these days in integrated electric and computerized systems are most likely in aircraft. i was watching some video of what went on each day after a helicopter returned from a oil platform. very complicated systems but they have built in test systems and the mechanics take great care of testing, replacing and verifying subsystems before the next days flight. thats how you make sure you arent gonna break down.

as car systems get more complicated that level of maintenance and care cannot be economically supported. and the construction of mass produced cars does not approach the level of attention to detail you find in an aircraft. yet the sophistication of some of these automotive systems, like tesla and the new landrover defender have more in common with modern aircraft than 4wd vehicles of 30 or 40 years ago.

if i won the lottery, i'd buy a jeep, then id take it completely apart and pay a group of technicians to go back through and reduce complexity where possible and to beef up and harden what remained.

i used to have a cj5 in the 70s. a v8. simple. i wheeled it alone and since i didnt do anything extreme with it, i did not worry about being stranded somewhere. but with a modern jeep or landrover today? it gives me pause. the idea of it suddenly doing christmas lighting on the dash and then completely stopping, leaving me 20 or 30 miles back in some old logging road in the mountains is something that gives me pause.
 

HardSell

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. the idea of it suddenly doing christmas lighting on the dash and then completely stopping, leaving me 20 or 30 miles back in some old logging road in the mountains is something that gives me pause.
Indeed! Stranding is the injury. Forcing one to purchase the tech complexities on trims which have the desirable mechanical options is the insult. My intuition suggests Jeep will inevitably yield as more competitors seek to chase the fewer dollars destined for distribution in the future.

Yet another post regarding tech related strandings. Posted Nov 30. 2021 JLU Already Towed to Dealer at 114 miles on the odo. Owned less than 2 hours... WTHher

and another still...Jeep is Gone

"The modern bare bones Jeep is in no way more or less reliable than the loaded one."

Case for supporting the advantages of "convenience tech" belonging in remote terrain gets weaker and weaker and weaker as time goes on.....


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