Does anybody have any regrets for NOT getting a Diesel?

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Bosch makes the majority of these systems for OEM and ULSD has caused many issues with them, especially for the HPFP. When (not if) a repair is required, deep pockets will be needed. When you add the initial and operating costs together along with the potential for an out of warranty repair, and the use case the vast majority have, diesels do not make sense.

In the pre-2007 days and when diesel was cheaper than gasoline, the ROI of a diesel (versus gasoline) was fairly short and for those keeping vehicles for several hundreds of thousands of miles, a diesel was (or should have been) the default choice.

I have not calculated the ROI on a current diesel--when does it break even versus a gasoline engine? Does it ever?
The Bosch inline pump on the mechanical 6BT cummins really was the cats meow!

I forget the specific numbers, but a fellow member did the calculations based on the national average price per gallon. It was in one of the first off these diesel threads. The roi on just the fuel alone was over 200k miles. With the 4 additional quarts of oil and the urine, easily 250k+.

In my humble opinion, it's an expensive gimmick in today's world. Most who are hell bent on getting one, are stuck in the yesteryear mentality. Back when guys were stuffing 6BT's in anything that had the height requirement. And if not enough space, the old Grumman bread trucks were being chased down for their 4BT's.
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deserteagle56

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Does most farm equipment have full emissions (DPF, SCR, DEF)? Mark my words, the emissions systems on the diesel will be its downfall--did you know that FCA does not offer extended warranties on the diesel emissions? That is very telling. In any mode other than the open road, soot generation is at its highest which causes more regenerations. The base diesel engine is not the problem, it is the emissions. Google "Ecodiesel problems" and you will see.
Yes, it does! Not sure of exactly when, somewhere around 2012 I think, any tractor over 25 HP has to have all the emissions stuff. My 2015 Kubota M7060 has it and I worried about it. But it's turned out to be a non-problem. A light goes on in the dash when the regeneration process starts (automatically); 10 - 15 minutes later the light goes out to tell me the process is complete. No difference in the way the tractor sounds or operates while the regen is going on - if it weren't for the light in the dash I wouldn't know.

I also have an old John Deere diesel tractor. The difference in the two - when I start the John Deere in the barn I have to move it outside immediately otherwise the smoke and fumes are overwhelming. The Kubota can stay inside a while - no visible smoke and for sure no obnoxious fumes.
 
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jeme

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No one knows the full implications of Running this engine over time. Ive seen DEF systems go haywire on oil burners and its thousands in cats pipes computer flashes etc... Diesel just isn't worth it for me personally. A well maintained 3.6 will go 100-200k no problem. As for the dI 2.0 and oil brner who knows. But hey... if you are not going to keep it that long then who cares right? At that point its all about how the driving experience is for you. And in that case none of the motors are rocketships. Id regret not getting a hemi before i regret getting a Diesel. Id much rather have a jeep with a hemi than any other of the engines. And with the amount the diesel costs, you could get a used 2018 or Sport and drop a hemi for
The same price if you had that much cash on hand.
Great information and thoughts everyone, really appreciate the comments! You are making me feel better, lol!
 

Revolution_322

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Great information and thoughts everyone, really appreciate the comments! You are making me feel better, lol!
I give the 2.0 a lot of shit, but my sis has one in her cherokee and it moves. Still dont think id ever buy one tho...
 

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Yes, it does! Not sure of exactly when, somewhere around 2012 I think, any tractor over 25 HP has to have all the emissions stuff. My 2015 Kubota M7060 has it and I worried about it. But it's turned out to be a non-problem. A light goes on in the dash when the regeneration process starts (automatically); 10 - 15 minutes later the light goes out to tell me the process is complete. No difference in the way the tractor sounds or operates while the regen is going on - if it weren't for the light in the dash I wouldn't know.

I also have an old John Deere diesel tractor. The difference in the two - when I start the John Deere in the barn I have to move it outside immediately otherwise the smoke and fumes are overwhelming. The Kubota can stay inside a while - no visible smoke and for sure no obnoxious fumes.
Oh, I am TOTALLY for the emissions systems. I could not tell my 2015 Powerstroke was a diesel, but the emissions systems (and in some cases the fuel system) is definitely the weak link. Time will tell about the FCA diesel, but thus far the internet shows it is not a winner.
 

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Does most farm equipment have full emissions (DPF, SCR, DEF)? Mark my words, the emissions systems on the diesel will be its downfall--did you know that FCA does not offer extended warranties on the diesel emissions? That is very telling. In any mode other than the open road, soot generation is at its highest which causes more regenerations. The base diesel engine is not the problem, it is the emissions. Google "Ecodiesel problems" and you will see.
this is false... you can buy an extended warranty on the ecodiesel that covers emissions
 

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this is false... you can buy an extended warranty on the ecodiesel that covers emissions
From FCA? Unless it changed in the last month it is totally true. If you are talking about a 3rd party warranty, I have no insight into that.
 

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From FCA? Unless it changed in the last month it is totally true. If you are talking about a 3rd party warranty, I have no insight into that.
You can buy a bumper to bumper MVP contract from FCA that covers diesel emissions- just like any other Wrangler.

Also the Federal Government mandates a 2/24k emissions warranty, the 3/36k bumper to bumper stacks on top of that... Some states have additional emissions protections (in California its 7/70k)... I think the longest Mopar backed warranty you can buy on an Ecodiesel Wrangler, currently, is a 8/125k bumper to bumper- which does cover emissions. This warranty contract has been around since the first day the Ecodiesel was sold to a customer.
 

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You can buy a bumper to bumper MVP contract from FCA that covers diesel emissions- just like any other Wrangler.

Also the Federal Government mandates a 2/24k emissions warranty, the 3/36k bumper to bumper stacks on top of that... Some states have additional emissions protections (in California its 7/70k)... I think the longest Mopar backed warranty you can buy on an Ecodiesel Wrangler, currently, is a 8/125k bumper to bumper- which does cover emissions. This warranty contract has been around since the first day the Ecodiesel was sold to a customer.
Apologies--i left the words "unlimited mileage" out of my post. I have a 7 year unlimited mileage warranty on my 3.6L Rubicon, FCA does not offer that on the diesel and the emissions systems. Why?
 

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I always love when people burn more fuel driving to find a cheaper price than they save at the cheaper price. Tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. BTW... a diesel isn't about saving pennies. Never has been for a diesel owner. Only is for people who run gas.
i agree that there are people will travel for cheaper price for fuel. it all depends on how far to go to make it worth while. at the time when i had my grand cherokee, i would go over to nj (12 miles) to fill up to save 30 - 40 cents per gallon. so 24 mile round trip for a full fill up is worth it because you are only burning 1.5 gal. of gas out of a 20 gal. tank. while i'm out there, i'll stop by the one deli and grab a couple of sandwiches. so its not a total waste of time. now with the jl i'll just head down 5 miles to the one station for 2.13 / gal vs 2.49+ that is right around the corner from the house.

as for the diesel owners, they are doing the same thing by driving by a couple of stations to save $$$. at least thats whats goes on by me.
 

cosine

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I'm curious about why no one, in any of these threads, ever mentions the negative impact to the longevity of the fuel injection equipment due to the removal of the fuels sulfur content? Ever look into the cost of rebuilding, let alone replacing, said equipment?
valid point. most diesel owners would know that. the new comers might not know that and assume that the diesels does not reqiure as mush maintenance. let a lone the cost. i've known guys paying $10g+ to overhaul the diesel motors to run another 100k+miles.

Perhaps the key reason is because these EcoDiesels haven’t proved to last long enough for that to be a concern...
true, the newer diesel are having issues in the long runs. vs the old diesels.
 
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jeme

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Good point, wonder what the 3.6 or 2.0 would cost to rebuild?
 

cosine

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Good point, wonder what the 3.6 or 2.0 would cost to rebuild?
the pentastar motors are pretty good reliability and long term. with the reg maintenance they will run well without any issues. other members have had good result with the pentastar motors with upward of 100k miles. i had a 3.7 pentastar motor in my 07 grand cherokee. at 91k miles with no major issues before it shit a brick. not sure what happened. however, i got a jl sport with a 3.6 and expect it to do well due to the reliability of the motor. the blown 3.7 i had had to be something way out of the ordinary to cause a failure. other than that it would of continued to serve me well over 100k miles. like i mentioned, i did not hesitate to get another pentastar motor, which is a hellva lot better then the out going 3.7. i'm sure others will chime in.

as for the cost, idk. what i do know to replace the 3.7 with a brand new factory 3.7 would be around $7g, that before labor and anything else that could come up. i choose to sell it due to several factors. the cherokee didnt have any major break downs or repairs. most of the wear and tear parts was getting up there in miles and were due to future replacements. the 5 speed auto was shifting smooth. but didnt want to replace the motor and have the tran crap out. that would be like another $5g. i was having some little issues that would add up in repairs. also the rust was getting the best of the underside. i love the grand cherokee and it served me very well. i decided, instead of spending nearly half to 2/3 in repairs, i sold it for $1500 and got a 2019 jl base sport.
 

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I recently retired from the trucking industry (30 years at FedEx) and I’ve seen a lot of changes to diesel engines during my career. The diesel used to be a quite simple and fairly bulletproof engine.......and then came along tightening emissions. I’m not touching the subject of right or wrong on tightening emissions I just want to let everyone know what happened to our trucks. 2007-2013 was the worst. The zero visible smoke requirements started and the first particulate filter style exhaust systems came out. They used diesel fuel injected Directly into the exhaust “filter” to burn out the soot. Those were a nightmare! Many trucks and motor homes have burned to ground because of these systems. The move to DEF Around 2013 to superheat the “filter” was a huge improvement, but still extremely problematic due to shop time because of mostly sensor failures or plugged Particulate filters or DEF pumps and the list goes on. Things are still improving, but there’s still more growing pains in the future for diesels. Diesel engines produce smoke/soot. Trying to capture and deal with that soot before it exits the tailpipe Is where most of these problems occur. Gas engine manufacturers have been refining there emissions systems since the 80s, and diesel since 07. They are still way behind. It’s just a fact.
 
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jeme

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I recently retired from the trucking industry (30 years at FedEx) and I’ve seen a lot of changes to diesel engines during my career. The diesel used to be a quite simple and fairly bulletproof engine.......and then came along tightening emissions. I’m not touching the subject of right or wrong on tightening emissions I just want to let everyone know what happened to our trucks. 2007-2013 was the worst. The zero visible smoke requirements started and the first particulate filter style exhaust systems came out. They used diesel fuel injected Directly into the exhaust “filter” to burn out the soot. Those were a nightmare! Many trucks and motor homes have burned to ground because of these systems. The move to DEF Around 2013 to superheat the “filter” was a huge improvement, but still extremely problematic due to shop time because of mostly sensor failures or plugged Particulate filters or DEF pumps and the list goes on. Things are still improving, but there’s still more growing pains in the future for diesels. Diesel engines produce smoke/soot. Trying to capture and deal with that soot before it exits the tailpipe Is where most of these problems occur. Gas engine manufacturers have been refining there emissions systems since the 80s, and diesel since 07. They are still way behind. It’s just a fact.
Great insight, thank you and congrats on your retirement! Formally lived in Memphis so I know FedEx well.
 
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