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Do you think Jeep/Stilantis will also be doing this as well?

JLUW75

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Yeah, rip out anything that has a cellular link. I would think there's just one transceiver that all things come thru. The antenna is a good place to start.
yeah, good luck with that. Some states are implementing new rules for vehicle emission checks. Once you mess with the car in any way, the system will throw a code and when DMV plugs your car in, it will cause you to fail emission. I call it emission but it will move way beyond that. People will need to let their dealers know and walk away. Once people start keeping their old cars and fixing them for a second life, this shit will stop.
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JLUW75

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So your saying it's not true? Curious as to what you have to refute what Toyota stated.
IT IS true! I saw this through multiple new outlets online. They can't all be lying and if indeed Toyota has NOT done this, there would be strong statements from the company.
 

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All this stuff about the ICE getting shutdown will itself get shutdown, probably soon. The people least able to pay for new cars are the ones being hit the hardest by $5/gal gas right now. The lefties want it to go to $10/gal, and it may happen within the next few years.

But, as soon as Al Sharpton says it's the "R word", this big push is over. You can't leave low/no income people without the ability to afford gas to get to work or the store for food and expect it will result in them buying a new vehicle. The eco-nazis are gonna get their axes handed to them over this.
Your theory makes sense but If Sharpton canā€™t be bought why hasnā€™t he opened his big mouth yet? Also, recently when the very highest government official was questioned about high gas prices he responded with ā€œ buy an electric carā€
 

TJJL19

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Well I think Orson Wells had it right, in the book 1984 or maybe the Christians have it right, in Book of Revelation , nobody buys or sell without anti man knowing.
 
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Lupellus

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Was very discouraged today to realize the Uconnect system has the ability to call emergency services on its own if you get in a wreck and are incapacitated, but if your 1-yr trial has run out and you don't pay for a subscription, it will not use this feature. Furthermore, you have to at least be subscribed to the second tier "Convenience Package" for $21/month; this feature isn't even active for the bottom tier "Remote Package" at $13/month. I just ordered a '22 Wrangler a month ago and if I had known that before placing my order, I would not have. Not just because I don't want to have to subscribe for that, but from an ethical standpoint. Even cell phones without SIM cards are required to work for emergency services. It just makes Stellantis seem a bit evil, like "pay up or bleed out".
 

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This brings to mind the hacking the CANbus thread. I was reading that, thinking yeah, Arduinos and stuff, that's up my alley, but why would I want to hack the Jeep?

Well, because of shit like this. If you start disabling features and demanding a subscription, I'm going to put my hacker hat on, and try to figure out a bypass. There probably is one.

If it all goes sideways, just play stupid. "I don't know what happened. Damned kids next door with their air pads or something must have done this."

You gotta watch out for those kids and their air pads and air pods and things. <shakes fist> Now get off my lawn!
 

roaniecowpony

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Was very discouraged today to realize the Uconnect system has the ability to call emergency services on its own if you get in a wreck and are incapacitated, but if your 1-yr trial has run out and you don't pay for a subscription, it will not use this feature. Furthermore, you have to at least be subscribed to the second tier "Convenience Package" for $21/month; this feature isn't even active for the bottom tier "Remote Package" at $13/month. I just ordered a '22 Wrangler a month ago and if I had known that before placing my order, I would not have. Not just because I don't want to have to subscribe for that, but from an ethical standpoint. Even cell phones without SIM cards are required to work for emergency services. It just makes Stellantis seem a bit evil, like "pay up or bleed out".
My first thought is I don't want that service. But I will tell you my experience with Onstar.

My 2014 truck had a new buyer Onstar service for a few months. I never paid for it to continue. However, years later, I can push the red cross button and an operator will answer with "Onstar emergency services, what's your emergency?" From a business standpoint, I don't think Onstar wants to get bad press, and maybe they want to be able to claim to have saved people for their ads.
 
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J.Ralston

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I had not seen that before. I can understand some people liking and wanting those features and do see a somewhat benefit as well in certain emergency situations when out off grid but I wish there was a way to have both. All of that data collecting equipment as a plug in option no different than a winch or off road lights so I would be able to only have it in use when I want it too and not continuously collecting data, my driving habits and places that I visit when itā€™s not in use.

With the 4XE Rubicon and the Magneto Rubicon should they ever build it past concept I would like to eventually add at least one of those to my collection of Jeep Wranglers because I could use a totally silent vehicle for some situations and research that I do sometimes when I go out off roading and camping totally off the grid.
 
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J.Ralston

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This is half the problem with society. Someone sees a YouTube video and accepts it as the truth.
I donā€™t just accept everything as truth. And with this channel, he is someone who I am familiar with and has never seemed to be making things up. But more importantly, he sites sources that anyone can also look up too, including sources from the auto manufacturers as well. So as much as I wish this video made was unfactual, sadly it is not!
 

AVGeek99

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With Toyota , you can start the car from anywhere , lock it, unlock it etc all from the app from any location on your phone around the world, that is other than doing it from the FOB itself.This would be beneficial to those who might not have the range (apartments, underground garages etc etc) This subscription as i understood it is for the APP itself thru Toyotas Connected Services.The keyfob itself will still work.
I have a 2021 4runner Offroad Premium and has all these services EXCEPT the remote start which it did not come with .I was contemplating doing an aftermarket remote start install myself before this whole story came out.
Personally, after the 3 year trial period i wont be renewing any of the services except the SOS call.The dynamic built in navigation would still work but wont be with all the live updates etc and the other services are meaningless.
This makes perfect sense. Your description of how the app works is a service. In order for that service to work, Toyota has to maintain IT infrastructure to make it work. And as you say, the remote start from the FOB will still work as long as you are in range, even if you decline the app service. This makes perfect sense.
 

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J.Ralston

J.Ralston

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Jeep already does something similar with UConnect as a subscription-based program. They do it with the built-in navigations units & updating the maps. I just received an email stating there are updated maps available for our navigation at the low, low price of only $149. They can push over-the-air updates to the vehicle, but they canā€™t update the maps unless you pay $149? There are also several other features in your audio headunit that are locked & you must pay the dealership to unlock them.

I added a rear camera to our ā€˜16 JKU and had to have the dealer unlock that feature (that was already there) in order to enable the camera. I noticed several other features in the Nav unit & the dealer said $150 ea to unlock those features.

The new remote start systems turn on the a/c & cooled seats or heat & heated seats/steering wheel if above/below a certain temp. They could easily disable those features and make them subscription based.
I got that same email. But I thought it was a lot more money. Something like $450.00. And that was discounted from $600.00 or $700.00. No thanks. I know every place that I plan on going. And my Dad was a long distance truck driver. I was taught and shown from birth how to get back on track if there was a detour for any reason. Ironically, before my Dad passed away last year he was a living Mapquest! Anytime any of my family or friends went somewhere they would call my Dad. He could give them step by step instructions to just about anywhere, by memory, along with numerous routes for scenic, best time savings, points of interest and so on. Even in 1999 when my band was on tour. There was a detour in Salt Lake City and our bus driver was unsure how to get to where we needed to go. I told him to call my Dad. At first he laughed and didnā€™t take what I said serious. That is until he called my Dad! My Dad then gave him step by step instructions of numerous way by memory of how to get us back on track, places to stop, best places to easily drive a tour bus in, diesel fuel stops etc.. When I saw my bus driver at the pay phone getting notebook paper out from his bag and taking lots of notes I started laughing because I instantly knew who he was talking to and had finally taken my advice and called my Dad. After the phone call he told me he had called the bus leasing company to get directions but they were not any help because they were unsure of where exactly we were in Salt Lake City. He then called my Dad, gave my Dad some landmarks and last known locations since it was getting dark and my Dad helped him out in far more detail than he had ever been given before. I laughed and told him my Dad was literally a human map on the United States and a majority of Canada and people normally didnā€™t believe me until they would get lost and call my Dad. And from then on, he was always their go to guy for any trip!

I know that story was a little detour from the topic as well but losing my Dad sucked and sharing memories of him is all that I have now! He was an amazing man who I loved very much, still do, and think about and miss every single day!
 
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J.Ralston

J.Ralston

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Doesnt surprise me, Toyota and their dealer body are the worst scumbags and their customers love getting bent over.

Toyota figures their loyal customers will pay it, so why not pimp them for another 100 a year for the remote start on their key fob which they already paid for LOL
That was the deciding factor in me getting my JLUR. I had been a Toyota Tacoma guy since 1997 and had gotten an amazing deal on both of my Tacomas for invoice on the first one and then under invoice on the second one even though it was a 2007 TRD Off Road. This time around I was going to go with a TRD Off Road Pro or a JLUR. No dealership would come off MSRP on the Tacoma, unless it was an Off Road, but not an Off Road Pro. And even then the amount would not be at invoice. My local Jeep dealership wanted my business, wanted to come on as a sponsor of my YouTube channel and even offered to do invoice deals to anyone who I referred except for the 392 after it came out but if referred by me they will sell for them for under MSRP. But with my JLUR, the MSRP on it came out to be I think $58,235.00 with an invoice of $56,929.00 but they sold it to me for $53,205.00. They wanted my business more and I decided that it was time to become a Jeep person. And now, I totally love my Jeep!
 

AVGeek99

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Jeep already does something similar with UConnect as a subscription-based program. They do it with the built-in navigations units & updating the maps. I just received an email stating there are updated maps available for our navigation at the low, low price of only $149. They can push over-the-air updates to the vehicle, but they canā€™t update the maps unless you pay $149? There are also several other features in your audio headunit that are locked & you must pay the dealership to unlock them.

I added a rear camera to our ā€˜16 JKU and had to have the dealer unlock that feature (that was already there) in order to enable the camera. I noticed several other features in the Nav unit & the dealer said $150 ea to unlock those features.

The new remote start systems turn on the a/c & cooled seats or heat & heated seats/steering wheel if above/below a certain temp. They could easily disable those features and make them subscription based.
Charging for navigation map updates make sense. Jeep/Stellantis don't own the Navigation system, they license it for a cost. If you want your maps updated you'll have to pay the piper. I agree that $149 is pretty steep, especially when you can just use Google/Apple maps with Android Auto/Apple Car Play.

Regarding your '16JKU and having to pay the dealer to unlock them. There are aftermarket computers that unlock all that stuff. With my JK I had FlashCal. With my JL I have a TazerJL Mini. No need to pay the dealer all those exorbitant fees.
 

AVGeek99

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On a similar vein, I have a 22 JLUR on order and have been trying to find a way that I can remotely unlock the doors through my phone so I don't have to drag that giant assed fob around with me when I go fishing or hunting. The only options I'm finding appear to involve purchasing some kind of subscription (SiriusXM Guardian or Jeep Connect). Am I missing something or is Jeep pushing subscriptions for basic capabilities that really shouldn't need them?

I can remote unlock or start my 2018 Ford truck from my phone without a subscription, whether I have cell service or not.
Phone app based functionality requires back end IT infrastructure to work. That costs money.

SiriusXM Guardian is the service that Jeep offers to do app based remote unlock/start. It was free for the first year on my 2021 JLUR. I've not used it once. With proximity unlock you never need to pull out the FOB, you just need it on your body or carrying it in a purse/backpack. It is overly large, but it still fits nicely in my pocket.
 

omnitonic

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And as you say, the remote start from the FOB will still work as long as you are in range, even if you decline the app service. This makes perfect sense.
I wouldn't have a problem with it if that were true, but according to that Toyota article:

Update 12/11/2021 @ 2:20 pm ET: The story has been updated to clarify that the key fob's proximity-based radio frequency remote start function will not work without a paid subscription to Toyota's Remote Connect suite of connected services. The Drive regrets any confusion the original copy may have caused.
Emphasis mine. Toyota requires a subscription just to get the line of sight function to work. If I owned a Toyota, I would...

Well, I would dump it and get a Jeep Wrangler, which I would do anyway, but I would be sure to give Toyota a piece of my mind on the way out. The nerve of those bastards!

If Stellantis pulls the same shit... Well.... I don't know, really. So far, it isn't really a concern, because I have a manual transmission anyway. But I would shift my manual transmission angrily, I guarantee you that! šŸ˜œ
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