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Do you think Jeep/Stilantis will also be doing this as well?

UniqueUserName

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Individual consumers aren’t Microsoft’s target demographic. Enterprise is. And as someone who has worked across a few and utilized MS’s sub service, I can tell you it’s excellent Z worth every penny. Updated frequently.
Software being updated is a little different convo than hardware rent-seeking, but thought I’d weigh in.
I didn't introduce MS into the discussion. But my comment was to illustrate that they don't have the monopoly that they once had. Auto manufacturers can lose share by pissing off consumers the same way. Don't delude yourself into thinking MS doesn't care about the consumer market either.
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If an auto manufacturer wants to have a paid subscription that has remote start and/or vehicle features available through a phone then I am okay with that being a subscription. Especially if it eliminates the need for the key fob. I can see a Dad doing this for a wife and/or daughter who live/work/go to school in a bad area and the ability for them to pre start the vehicle en route to it so they can get in and go then I get that. Or to turn on vehicle features via the phone only, then I’m okay with that too. If someone wanted to pay a monthly fee for XM radio or stuff like that then I’m okay with that stuff but making people pay for features in their vehicle and/or key fob that they own is wrong and I do not agree with.
 

music293

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I didn't introduce MS into the discussion. But my comment was to illustrate that they don't have the monopoly that they once had. Auto manufacturers can lose share by pissing off consumers the same way. Don't delude yourself into thinking MS doesn't care about the consumer market either.
Mate, are contrarian by nature? You quite literally said that you switched from MS to Libre in response to someone mentioning that MS had gone to a subscription model.

I’m just suggesting to you that wasn’t a great example because MS’s primary focus is on Enterprise when it comes to their subscription based office products.

No worries.
 

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Spelling Nazi!🤣🤣🤣
Come on, that wasn't a spelling correction. Orson Wells was an actor and director among other things famous for the original War of the Worlds radio broadcast that people believed was real and Citizen Kane. George Orwell wrote 1984. They are two completely different people. :)
 

AVGeek99

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If an auto manufacturer wants to have a paid subscription that has remote start and/or vehicle features available through a phone then I am okay with that being a subscription. Especially if it eliminates the need for the key fob. I can see a Dad doing this for a wife and/or daughter who live/work/go to school in a bad area and the ability for them to pre start the vehicle en route to it so they can get in and go then I get that. Or to turn on vehicle features via the phone only, then I’m okay with that too. If someone wanted to pay a monthly fee for XM radio or stuff like that then I’m okay with that stuff but making people pay for features in their vehicle and/or key fob that they own is wrong and I do not agree with.
Manufactures can't charge you to use features/options built into a car that you paid for up front. That would be like a TV manufacturer charging you a fee to use the remote control that came with the TV.
 

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J.Ralston

J.Ralston

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Manufactures can't charge you to use features/options built into a car that you paid for up front. That would be like a TV manufacturer charging you a fee to use the remote control that came with the TV.
I realize that but that is what some people in here have claimed that both Toyota, GM and maybe even a handful of other auto manufacturers have done with some of their vehicles. No remote start off of the key fob once their free trial ended. Same thing as well with their steering wheel and seat warmers and coolers, in addition to a handful of other features on their radios that were not subscription based. Navigation systems for example.
 

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Toyota did this back in 2015 on a few of their Toyota/Lexus models…nothing new. However, it’s super easy to bypass. Manufacturers think they can have more control by going more digital, but it’s actually the opposite. With tiny computers like Raspberry Pi’s becoming more and more powerful every few months, it super easy (if you know how to code) to circumvent any “locks” or “subscriptions” manufacturers try to implement. I got my mom free remote start on her NX200t back in 2016 when Lexus was charging her $125 a year for it. On top of it all, I added logic to the Pi to check outside temperature and if it was hot outside it would remote start with AC and if it was cold outside it would remote start with heat. Believe me, no matter how desperate manufacturers are getting for money, customer knowledge is power!
Wow, you kids today are very smart about all these new fangled electronic thingys. Me, I'm old, and have a hard time just turning on the dang computer. Watching the news these days I've began to wonder, but you sir have just giving me hope for the future again. :)
 

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Manufactures can't charge you to use features/options built into a car that you paid for up front. That would be like a TV manufacturer charging you a fee to use the remote control that came with the TV.
Shhhhhhh! Don't give the TV people ideas!

Seriously though, I can see them not updating the software on smart TVs so the new Netflix, Hulu, etc do not work on them so you have to end up buying a new TV if you want to use those features. One of the big reasons I don't like "do it all devices".

I can see them charging you a subscription though to use your smartphone to control your tv and add more features to the smartphone vs just basic volume/channel/input selections on a remote.
 

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Come on, that wasn't a spelling correction. Orson Wells was an actor and director among other things famous for the original War of the Worlds radio broadcast that people believed was real and Citizen Kane. George Orwell wrote 1984. They are two completely different people. :)
Not to mention the fact that 1984 was about control of thought and behaviour, not financial expoitation.

Anyway...the point remains...if you want laws or regulations to prevent businesses from doing this kind of thing to you, it means you have to have government on your side. That''s where contract LAW, consumer protection LAW, and fair trade LAW all are made. Without those, we return to laissez faire business, pre 1900.

Courts don't do "fairness" or "justice" or "what's right". They do LAW.

I'm not being political here...I'm not saying which side is right. Just that IF you want someone to prevent corporate abuses, it has to be government. The other option, you go one on one with some multinational multibillion dollar corporation.

TLDR:The only way to control corporate greed is government interference. Take your pick.
 

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Shhhhhhh! Don't give the TV people ideas!

Seriously though, I can see them not updating the software on smart TVs so the new Netflix, Hulu, etc do not work on them so you have to end up buying a new TV if you want to use those features. One of the big reasons I don't like "do it all devices".
Already happens. My older Panasonic "Smart TV" no longer gets updates and most of the apps (any I cared about) no longer work. Panasonic EOL the software on it and its abandoned. A Roku stick took care of it though. Even Rokus get EOLed. My original Roku sldoesnt get new software and apps are staring to not work on it.

That was an easy fix. Vehicle Infotainment systems are a bigger pain. Out 2013 Explorer with the Sync with MyFordTouch hot abandond by Ford. All the features it was supposted to get but never got.
It'll happen to Uconnect 4 also. As long as CarPlay and Andriod Auto don't require a major update, we should be good for a while with it.
 

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UniqueUserName

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Mate, are contrarian by nature? You quite literally said that you switched from MS to Libre in response to someone mentioning that MS had gone to a subscription model.

I’m just suggesting to you that wasn’t a great example because MS’s primary focus is on Enterprise when it comes to their subscription based office products.

No worries.
Yes. And if you think for a moment you will find that I was not the one who introduced MS into the thread, which is exactly what I stated. Microsoft Office wasn't my analogy. I merely responded to someone else's analogy. If you want to say it's a poor analogy, tell the person who made it.

Reading is fundamental. Comprehension takes a little more effort.
 

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Wow, you kids today are very smart about all these new fangled electronic thingys. Me, I'm old, and have a hard time just turning on the dang computer. Watching the news these days I've began to wonder, but you sir have just giving me hope for the future again. :)
There's no shame in learning some new things! With raspberry pis, there are starter kits and all kinds of tutorials so even somebody with no computer knowledge could pick it up if they have the time to spare, and the curiosity. I think the tactile part where you can make lights flash and motors move with a little bit of code, makes it a lot more fun.

There really isn't much mythical about it. Just bytes going around on wires. The signals used are almost always open standards because nobody wants to spend the time/money making their own thing that nobody knows how to write software or design hardware for.

Some companies do make it hard in the name of security/vendor-lock-in, but.. yeah! There's some cool threads on here about messing with things.
 

AVGeek99

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Not to mention the fact that 1984 was about control of thought and behaviour, not financial expoitation.

Anyway...the point remains...if you want laws or regulations to prevent businesses from doing this kind of thing to you, it means you have to have government on your side. That''s where contract LAW, consumer protection LAW, and fair trade LAW all are made. Without those, we return to laissez faire business, pre 1900.

Courts don't do "fairness" or "justice" or "what's right". They do LAW.

I'm not being political here...I'm not saying which side is right. Just that IF you want someone to prevent corporate abuses, it has to be government. The other option, you go one on one with some multinational multibillion dollar corporation.

TLDR:The only way to control corporate greed is government interference. Take your pick.
When it comes to free market vs big government regulation I will definitely lean toward free market every time. Though I do agree some level of regulation is need to curb corporate greed. There is more than enough consumer protection regulation in place to handle this situation. You just need to make enough noise so someone will hear and listen to you.

Courts are also based on legal precedents in past cases. What law or legal precedent is there that states it's ok for a manufacturer to charge you a fee to use something that you have already bought and paid for?
 

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The technology to access Sirius XM is built into my JL. I got several months of it for free when I bought the vehicle and was offered the option to pay for continued use. Decided I could live without it. I have no problem with that and have no problem with trial period for remote ignition from the key fob either. The technology that makes it possible for the auto makers to do this will also open up other potential subscription services such as anti-theft tools, retuning the shift points, adding different kinds of driving modes, etc.

This whole thread is a storm in a teacup as far as I can tell.
 

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Option #1. Government keeps an eye on business, and regulates things...legislated fairness to the consumer, safety, etc etc.

Option #2. Government keeps its hands off and allows free enterprise and individual responsibility.

Want some of each? Who chooses which and how much?
Hmmm…. Immortan Joe or Imperator Furiosa? Who’dya wanna hitch your wagon to?
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