Disappointing Dealer Experience (JLR)

[Quasimodo]

Today my wife and I went to a local Jeep dealership and checked out the new 2 door JL Rubicon (white / hard top) and took a test drive. If you haven't driven one yet, it drives like a dream. However, I was very disappointed with the notional numbers that were given to me for a purchase price. These were notional, because I wanted it in granite crystal and a soft top - which they promised they could locate one for me and have it in 5 days or so.

The MSRP was 46165, and I was alotted 1,000 in savings + a 500 rebate. Adjusted sales price was 44665. I told the salesman that I was looking for the 5% invoice that others were receiving on this forum. He did not seem to know or care about this, and insisted that I may not qualify for all of the deals other dealerships have and that this was a very good deal.

Further, he ran a "soft credit" report on me to determine some ballpark monthly payment numbers, which he also insisted would go down since I have excellent credit. This came out to about 758/mo in payments. Not that I care about the monthly payment, but it was way more than what I was expecting.

They also valued my trade in at 4,000 (albeit without looking at the car in person) based on the mileage and vin number. According to KBB, it is worth 7000 as a trade-in.

My questions are, is this what I should expect from a dealer and their notional pricing? Can I still get the 5% below invoice pricing at another dealer for a vehicle on their lot? Needless to say, we walked out of that dealer very quickly without purchasing....

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[alltimesaresoon]

It might be the hump on your back

 

[DivingPyrate]

Never ever do a one dealer deal.
I have my current dealer set to make the first offer on my purchase, but I will take their best offer and shop it around

 

[VolCntry73]

There are dealers scattered throughout the country that are offering 5% below invoice on orders. Some are offering it on vehicles they have on the lot, but many are not. I checked with three local dealers in my area and NONE of them had any interest in selling near invoice, much less below it. In the end, YOU determine where you spend your money.

Also, treat your trade in as a separate deal. Many dealers use NADA, which is below KBB. And you can always sell the car yourself.

I suggest checking out this thread that is offering the best pricing. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/recommended-dealers-list.1227/page-50#post-278510

 

[Saejin]

Just read the many posts here in he forum about pricing. You may be able to get 4-5% off of invoice, but if it’s something on the lot then I’m not sure. Just keep shopping around.

What you experienced is the typical offer a dealer would give to someone just dropping in to test drive. Take your car to carmax...having them give you an offer on paper will increase your leverage to negotiate a better price. If not, sell it to carmax.

Then find out the invoice of the Jeep you’re looking for, subtract 5%, then use that as your target price.

Going in cold like that will always end up with the dealer trying to get the most money out of you.

Good luck.

 

[BlackRook]

Straight bad deal on this. That price is unreasonable, though depending on your region you may find difficulty getting a better price (Florida and esp California seem to get soaked by the dealer). There are good dealers, though if you need to buy off the lot it significantly shrinks the pool.

If you're negotiating for one off the lot, then you should start by using this forum to determine invoice price, then taking 1% off and using that as the ceiling. That's affiliate pricing, which you can get if you sign up for tread lightly. Instantly a MUCH better price, and a good ceiling for what your jeep should cost. Then use 6% off invoice as your opening negotiation price, which is the 5% + 1% for affiliate. Negotiate from there, but walk right out the door if they suggest even $1 over that 1% under invoice. [You should probably sign up for tread lightly anyhow --good cause and it saves you money]

As to the trade... KBB is a terrible bellwether for trade value. Dealers have their own internal guides that determine prices (you can buy one, too, but the price to you is typically in the high hundreds of dollars). You'll never get the KBB trade in value. Do what you can to get as much as you can and let it go, or sell privately. But chances are you'll never get anything near that $7k from a dealer. Also note that most dealers will happily give you more for your trade, but offer that much less negotiating space for price on your new car; the sale is a zero sum game for a normal dealership.

 

[jmcdtucson]

That's the same kind of deal I was offered initially. Everyone walking in off the street will get that. Plus enough worthless dealer "add-ons" to take the price right back to MSRP.
Keep looking/working/haggling.
They take a lot off the top on trade-ins. It's hardly worth it to trade in unless you're looking for the convenience. You will pay for that convenience but for some people it's easier than selling the car themselves or they can't afford a down payment and use the trade.
For me the $3k difference was worth keeping my trade-in.

 

[millerjl]

OP where are you located. There is a referred dealer thread on the forum that may help you.

 

[Quasimodo]

OP where are you located. There is a referred dealer thread on the forum that may help you.

I am in NC, so it looks like I'll have to drive up to Raleigh to get the 5% below invoice deal.

 

[Krondor]

The drive would be worth it.

My dealer wouldn't have anything to do with the pricing until I showed my shopping results and willingness to drive to Nevada to get my Jeep.

They were very helpful after that. It's a business. Their job is to get as much out of you as possible.

It's your job to only pay as much as you are comfortable with. GL

 

[phatjoe]

I've got nothing new to add, but to echo that it's a bad deal.

Here, in Texas, the pricing is all over the place. There are 2-3 dealers around here that will do 5-6% under invoice for what they have on their lot. All others will not go that low. It just takes time and effort to find the right dealership.

Here's an interesting story (sorry it's long). I'm in the market for a new wrangler. The salesperson (she's great) I've purchased 4 cars from was busy, so the general sales manager helped me out. I was fed all the typical sales shit from him,,,,
"since you bought so much from us, I'm going to give you an awesome price! How about $100 under invoice"
"yeah, if I go 6% under invoice I'm losing money on that deal"
"There's really not a lot of mark-up on these wranglers"
"There are so few Rubicons out there, you won't find one"

"The internet price on that Sport S is the LOWEST we will go". I called the salesperson I normally work with and she took an additional $500 off the price for that Sport S.

 

[PWMDMD]

1. I have not walked into a dealer to this talk price in an 8 years. I’ve purchased from many different brands and dealerships and I simply do all negotiation via email. I tell them what I want, get initial offers and when someone replies with a better price I literally forward that
email to the other dealerships until I get to the lowest price. Do your homework and know about deals/incentives and what others are paying and be upfront about it.

2. I NEVER mention a trade until we’ve negotiated price on the new car. Then you need to come prepared with Blackbook, Bluebook, etc. They will try all sorts of games and tell you they don’t use this one or that one but it gives you a place to start. I treat new car and trade-in as two different transactions.

3. After making them work against other dealerships and coming to a price and then getting low balled on the trade I simply say this is what I need the trade to be to make it work.

4. I always go into a negotiation with outside financing already approved. This way they can’t play financing games. Sometimes I take their financing - can’t beat something like Honda’s 0.9% for 60 months - but if my bank approves me for a better deal then they can’t leverage their financing against you by talking about monthly payment, etc.

5. I understand dealerships need to make money too. My goal is a good deal on both the new car and trade but I’m not trying to pillage.

6. I spend on average about 20 mins in a dealership signing papers and that’s already too much time for me.

My observation is most dealerships have “internet salesman” that make better initial offers than sales people on the floor. There are also dealerships who prefer online contact because basically it allows salesman to work on volume sales where a salesman can be negotiating 5 deals at the same time online vs one deal in-person.

More than anything this approach will let you know who is willing to play ball and prevent you from wasting time by going to a dealership that clearly isn’t going to.

 

[Hagie]

The only reason I don't have a JL yet is because I'm working on a stout down payment. I figure if I can walk in and slap some where near $10k on the table that makes a lot more things go in my favor. That also immediately lowers monthly payment in a "normal" allotment of time for the loan. i mean I can get to ~$300 a month, but that time frame would look more like a 30 year mortgage instead...

TruCar is good, but only use it when you are ready. I made an account and did a search and with in 10 minutes my phone was blowing up with dealers asking when i could come in for a test drive. I let them know up front that I will hold on to their info but I am 9-12 months away from purchase.

I am hoping to have the email experience where I walk in, sign and leave. I have only bought a handful of cars, but what should be an at most 2 hour experience some how becomes 5-6 hours for no reason other than stonewalling and stalling/game playing. If I have to go in and get played with, I am actually looking forward to just walking out.

 

[old8tora]

1. I have not walked into a dealer to this talk price in an 8 years. I’ve purchased from many different brands and dealerships and I simply do all negotiation via email. I tell them what I want, get initial offers and when someone replies with a better price I literally forward that
email to the other dealerships until I get to the lowest price. Do your homework and know about deals/incentives and what others are paying and be upfront about it.

2. I NEVER mention a trade until we’ve negotiated price on the new car. Then you need to come prepared with Blackbook, Bluebook, etc. They will try all sorts of games and tell you they don’t use this one or that one but it gives you a place to start. I treat new car and trade-in as two different transactions.

3. After making them work against other dealerships and coming to a price and then getting low balled on the trade I simply say this is what I need the trade to be to make it work.

4. I always go into a negotiation with outside financing already approved. This way they can’t play financing games. Sometimes I take their financing - can’t beat something like Honda’s 0.9% for 60 months - but if my bank approves me for a better deal then they can’t leverage their financing against you by talking about monthly payment, etc.

5. I understand dealerships need to make money too. My goal is a good deal on both the new car and trade but I’m not trying to pillage.

6. I spend on average about 20 mins in a dealership signing papers and that’s already too much time for me.

My observation is most dealerships have “internet salesman” that make better initial offers than sales people on the floor. There are also dealerships who prefer online contact because basically it allows salesman to work on volume sales where a salesman can be negotiating 5 deals at the same time online vs one deal in-person.

More than anything this approach will let you know who is willing to play ball and prevent you from wasting time by going to a dealership that clearly isn’t going to.

Very Well Said . Don't worry , they "make money too" . General Managers are paid $1K per day . ( out of our pockets .)

 

[old8tora]

The only reason I don't have a JL yet is because I'm working on a stout down payment. I figure if I can walk in and slap some where near $10k on the table that makes a lot more things go in my favor. That also immediately lowers monthly payment in a "normal" allotment of time for the loan. i mean I can get to ~$300 a month, but that time frame would look more like a 30 year mortgage instead...

TruCar is good, but only use it when you are ready. I made an account and did a search and with in 10 minutes my phone was blowing up with dealers asking when i could come in for a test drive. I let them know up front that I will hold on to their info but I am 9-12 months away from purchase.

I am hoping to have the email experience where I walk in, sign and leave. I have only bought a handful of cars, but what should be an at most 2 hour experience some how becomes 5-6 hours for no reason other than stonewalling and stalling/game playing. If I have to go in and get played with, I am actually looking forward to just walking out.

I sort of understand your post , Except for your inclination to obligate yourself with debt on an expensive JL vehicle which is prone to defects .

If you are going to burden yourself with a big debt , you are looking at a stressful future of serious payments .

Better to get a less expensive Jeep ( JK ? ) with less debt .

Even better to keep your Scions and avoid any future debt .

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