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Differential oil change

CarbonSteel

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What does Dana say about the M210 up front? 75w90?

I'm on a 15k change schedule for my rear gear lube just because of the reduced capacity.
Both state 75W-140. Below are both specifications sheets. I am currently running 85W-140 in both for the first 7,500 miles or so. I am moving to a cooler climate so I am OK with 75W-90 in the front. If I were staying in Texas, I would be running 75W-110 in the front since it is the viscosity that 75W-90 used to be before the J306 tables were updated.

No way would I run 75W-90 in the rear no matter where I lived. BTW - 15K is likely a good OCI given they run 225°F at 70ish and only go hotter from there under a load.
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DanW

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Both state 75W-140. Below are both specifications sheets. I am currently running 85W-140 in both for the first 7,500 miles or so. I am moving to a cooler climate so I am OK with 75W-90 in the front. If I were staying in Texas, I would be running 75W-110 in the front since it is the viscosity that 75W-90 used to be before the J306 tables were updated.

No way would I run 75W-90 in the rear no matter where I lived. BTW - 15K is likely a good OCI given they run 225°F at 70ish and only go hotter from there under a load.
If that's what Dana specs, then I'll move to 75w140 in the front, too.

What are they talking about with the M210 referring to upper and lower fill holes? I know their aftermarket diff cover has 2 holes like that, but stock only has one.
 

Mike8194

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I’m guessing it will be hot, but I don’t run 75. With 4.10 gears and 37’s I stay at 65 or less. Even at 65 I only get 13.5 mpg. 75 would be worse. My best fuel economy comes at 60-65 so I stay with that. It’s a Jeep. I e had plenty of fast cars. Don’t care about speed or being the first anymore.
I have the M220 LSD/Tow Package. I went with 75W-140 in the rear after reading through these forums and checking the manufacture website. While Jeep does recommend 75W85, the manufacture of the diff (Spicer) recommends 75W-140.

https://spicerparts.com/parts/axle/automotive/advantek-axle-technology
https://spicerparts.com/parts/axle/...-ring-and-pinion-gearing-for-jeep-wrangler-jl
https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-REAR-UD44A-D44A-42019.pdf

This is a JK install guide, but skip to 10:00



I have def noticed a minor drop in fuel economy, but I didn’t buy a Jeep for a fuel economy. I tend to agree with others here, that Jeep recommends thinner weight oils to increase fuel economy. Car manufactures don’t seem to care about long term reliability, just that they make it through the warranty period. I am good with superior protection at the expense of fuel economy, especially given all the horror stories of the Dana 44 rear cannibalizing itself.

if you havn’t already, check out this 100+ page thread...
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/knock-in-rear-with-dana-44.16921/
 
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Pepe My Little Mule

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If that's what Dana specs, then I'll move to 75w140 in the front, too.

What are they talking about with the M210 referring to upper and lower fill holes? I know their aftermarket diff cover has 2 holes like that, but stock only has one.
Factory has an upper fill hole and a lower drain hole. At least mine does.
 

DanW

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Factory has an upper fill hole and a lower drain hole. At least mine does.
Maybe that's a change. Mine only has one on the cover. I hope they put enough in there when it was new, LOL!
 

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CarbonSteel

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If that's what Dana specs, then I'll move to 75w140 in the front, too.

What are they talking about with the M210 referring to upper and lower fill holes? I know their aftermarket diff cover has 2 holes like that, but stock only has one.
You have to add the "FCA equation" into it. I am thinking (as you are) they (DS) are talking about their covers which have two holes in them. FCA reduced the oil capacity in these axles as well as specifying 75W-90 as the oil in both except when towing.

I have 36K miles on my Rubicon and have been running front and rear temperature gauges for the past 10K miles. The rear will consistently hit 220°F at 65MPH and above 225°F at 75MPH. Running 75W-90 is not a good idea at those oil temperatures for long periods of time.

Based upon my experiences with multiple axles, multiple gear oils, a myriad of UOAs for the same, and the behavior of these axles as compared to all others, 75W-140 is the lowest viscosity I would run in the rear--even under the lightest working conditions. Since the front axle sees sporadic use and is never under the load the rear one is, one can use 75W-90 without much concern, but one can never go wrong increasing the viscosity--it simply means more protection.
 

CarbonSteel

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Factory has an upper fill hole and a lower drain hole. At least mine does.
Are you saying there are two fill holes in the cover or one fill hole in the cover and one drain hole in the pumpkin itself?
 

Pepe My Little Mule

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Are you saying there are two fill holes in the cover or one fill hole in the cover and one drain hole in the pumpkin itself?
Factory equipped that diff has one fill hole on the cover. If you want a second hole you would have to buy the Dana Spicer aftermarket replacement cover. Perhaps that cover is what makes that kit that info sheet was written for "Ultimate" ???
 

CarbonSteel

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Factory equipped that diff has one fill hole on the cover. If you want a second hole you would have to buy the Dana Spicer aftermarket replacement cover. Perhaps that cover is what makes that kit that info sheet was written for "Ultimate" ???
I was just asking for clarification as it seemed like you were saying the OEM cover had two holes in it. The Dana spec sheet is undoubtedly referring to their aftermarket cover:

dana-30-front-cover-gray.jpg
 

DanW

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I was just asking for clarification as it seemed like you were saying the OEM cover had two holes in it. The Dana spec sheet is undoubtedly referring to their aftermarket cover:

Jeep Wrangler JL Differential oil change dana-30-front-cover-gray
So they give you three options. 1. Fill to the bottom of the upper hole. (Initial fill) Fill to the bottom of the lower hole. (Maintenance fill), and if you are not sure, just fill it to the taint.

Sorry, I couldn't resist! :CWL::LOL:;)
 

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What does Dana say about the M210 up front? 75w90?

I'm on a 15k change schedule for my rear gear lube just because of the reduced capacity.
I changed both diffs at 4,500 on mine, and the front looked new but the rear was sludgy and nasty. I now change my rear diff fluid with every oil change just to be safe (5K intervals). Cheap insurance I am hoping, but we'll see. The rear wasn't as bad at 9,500 but still dirtier than I'd like to see.
 

DanW

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I changed both diffs at 4,500 on mine, and the front looked new but the rear was sludgy and nasty. I now change my rear diff fluid with every oil change just to be safe (5K intervals). Cheap insurance I am hoping, but we'll see. The rear wasn't as bad at 9,500 but still dirtier than I'd like to see.
It's easy to change and won't hurt a thing. But that's a bit of overkill, for me.

My intervals are 15k and I think that's well on the safe end. Yes, there was a good deal of iron on the magnetic drain plug, but the rings, pinions, and bearings looked great at 48k miles when they were swapped out for re-gearing. I think you could go by the book and the axles will outlast much of the rest of the Jeep.

My JK has gone 50k intervals and has done lots of towing. Ring and pinion teeth look perfect after 158k miles. There's been plenty of iron taken from that magnet over the years, too. And its been run one 50k interval on cheap synthetic Walmart Supertech gear oil. It looked as good as the Mobil 1 I ran the first interval. I changed the factory fill around 10k, if I remember correctly.

A buddy of mine that went to Moab with us last spring changed his JK rear diff fluid for the first time at 167k miles. OUCH! The oil looked terrible, but the gears looked fine. I would never recommend that but it did ease some worries.

I know those are JK D44's and are not perfect comparisons due to their slightly greater fluid capacity, but they are still basically similar designs. The Advantek's aren't radical shifts in technology, but rather evolved versions of the D44.
 

CarbonSteel

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The Advantek's aren't radical shifts in technology, but rather evolved versions of the D44.
It's easy to change and won't hurt a thing. But that's a bit of overkill, for me.

My intervals are 15k and I think that's well on the safe end. Yes, there was a good deal of iron on the magnetic drain plug, but the rings, pinions, and bearings looked great at 48k miles when they were swapped out for re-gearing. I think you could go by the book and the axles will outlast much of the rest of the Jeep.

My JK has gone 50k intervals and has done lots of towing. Ring and pinion teeth look perfect after 158k miles. There's been plenty of iron taken from that magnet over the years, too. And its been run one 50k interval on cheap synthetic Walmart Supertech gear oil. It looked as good as the Mobil 1 I ran the first interval. I changed the factory fill around 10k, if I remember correctly.

A buddy of mine that went to Moab with us last spring changed his JK rear diff fluid for the first time at 167k miles. OUCH! The oil looked terrible, but the gears looked fine. I would never recommend that but it did ease some worries.

I know those are JK D44's and are not perfect comparisons due to their slightly greater fluid capacity, but they are still basically similar designs. The Advantek's aren't radical shifts in technology, but rather evolved versions of the D44.
My gut feel based upon what I have read is the Advanteks have two changes from Dana and two from FCA that influence/dictate oil types and OCI and are different than previous generations:

Dana Spicer:

1. Metallurgy of the gears. Dana has reduced the overall ring gear dimensions from previous generations while maintaining the same torque capacities. This typically means the metal is either harder or has more heat treatment which can (and appears to) generate more iron which in turn contaminates the oil faster.

2. Gear teeth angles. The Advantek gears have different angles versus previous generations (no doubt to reduce NVH), but it seems a consequence is increased heat which the metallurgy contributes to as well.

FCA:

1. Reduction of oil capacity. Advantek axles in FCA Jeep JL's are reduced by at least 1QT likely in the quest for more MPG. This reduction also reduces the OCI and certainly does not help longevity.

2. Reduction of oil viscosity. Advantek axles in FCA Jeep JL's are specified to use xW-90 oil. xW-140 was only specified to be used when towing, but that seems to have been removed in current models.

Just my $0.02
 

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This thread is always fun to read. Do you all change the diff fluid on your other cars like they are in this thread? I mean I change mine often, but I use my Jeep in extreme conditions often.

Heck many passenger cars never get a diff fluid change in their entire like. My bud owns a trucking company. They change the diff fluid at the 150,000 mile mark on the big trucks.
 

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This thread is always fun to read. Do you all change the diff fluid on your other cars like they are in this thread? I mean I change mine often, but I use my Jeep in extreme conditions often.

Heck many passenger cars never get a diff fluid change in their entire like. My bud owns a trucking company. They change the diff fluid at the 150,000 mile mark on the big trucks.
Lol, no. The Jeep gets extra love. Lots of it. Partly due to going into extreme conditions, but partly because it is as much hobby as transportation.

My Ford Transit van, for example, got its transmission fluid changed at about 140k miles (manual says 150k). I think I did the diff fluid then. Ring and pinion teeth looked fine, but the gear oil looked spent. It also gets oil changes by the OLM, which is 10k miles. But it does still get premium oils and fluids. My wife and kids' cars get better than recommended maintenance, though, because they carry precious cargo.
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