Sponsored

Diesel Lift Kit?

WVB

Well-Known Member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
46
Reaction score
34
Location
Arvada, CO
Vehicle(s)
2020 Willys Unlimited 3.0L Diesel HellaYella
I'm pretty sure I've seen different part numbers posted for diesel vs gas coils.
It would have to be for an exact same package with only the engine being different for a watermelon to watermelon comparison.
There are so many packages that I would imagine that there may be a couple of dozen different springs used.
Sponsored

 

Themistocles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
408
Reaction score
702
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
'03 Ram 2500 Cummins / 20 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
So after quite a bit if research I am not finding a lot of definitive information.

Nearly every site agrees the 3.0 is about 400lbs heavier than a comparable 3.6. The common differences are different engine, different transmission (ZF 8HP75 vs 850RE [8HP50], different exhaust (w/DEF system). Also all non-Rubicon diesel models get the heavier duty M210 / M220 axles (to me this means the weight difference between the Rubicon 3.6 and the Rubicon 3.0 should be less than the weight difference between the Sport 3.6 and the Sport 3.0...but how much I can't yet figure out.)

Let's assume the 168 lbs difference for the engine is accurate...I can't find verification of that one way or the other. The ZF8HP70 has a wet weight of 207 lbs...the 75 is a bit sturdier, lets call it a wet weight of 210 lbs. From what I can tell (very limited info...and relying on random forum comments for this) that is 20 - 30 lbs heavier than the 850RE.

The DEF tank is 5.1 gallons (6 lbs / gallon) = about 30 lbs + equipment in the rear ... let's say 50lbs heavier in the rear.

Just my basic math here puts about 200 - 250 of the added weight on the front...with maybe 50 - 75 in the rear. That leaves 100lbs or so unaccounted for.

I am going to go back to MC and see if they will respond to some detailed questions.
 

Jludiesel334

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Threads
11
Messages
71
Reaction score
77
Location
Alabama
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLU ecoDIESEL ( on order 11-27)
Does anyone know if you can buy the Mopar 2” kit without the shocks? Or have part numbers for those components.
 

WVB

Well-Known Member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
46
Reaction score
34
Location
Arvada, CO
Vehicle(s)
2020 Willys Unlimited 3.0L Diesel HellaYella
So after quite a bit if research I am not finding a lot of definitive information.

Nearly every site agrees the 3.0 is about 400lbs heavier than a comparable 3.6. The common differences are different engine, different transmission (ZF 8HP75 vs 850RE [8HP50], different exhaust (w/DEF system). Also all non-Rubicon diesel models get the heavier duty M210 / M220 axles (to me this means the weight difference between the Rubicon 3.6 and the Rubicon 3.0 should be less than the weight difference between the Sport 3.6 and the Sport 3.0...but how much I can't yet figure out.)

Let's assume the 168 lbs difference for the engine is accurate...I can't find verification of that one way or the other. The ZF8HP70 has a wet weight of 207 lbs...the 75 is a bit sturdier, lets call it a wet weight of 210 lbs. From what I can tell (very limited info...and relying on random forum comments for this) that is 20 - 30 lbs heavier than the 850RE.

The DEF tank is 5.1 gallons (6 lbs / gallon) = about 30 lbs + equipment in the rear ... let's say 50lbs heavier in the rear.

Just my basic math here puts about 200 - 250 of the added weight on the front...with maybe 50 - 75 in the rear. That leaves 100lbs or so unaccounted for.

I am going to go back to MC and see if they will respond to some detailed questions.
DEF weighs slightly more than water. 8.4lbs/gl.
The diesel has two catalysts and a DPF plus larger exhaust tubing. That’s some of the missing weight.
 

Themistocles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
408
Reaction score
702
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
'03 Ram 2500 Cummins / 20 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
So just had a good conversation with the MC folks. They said they did start out planning for a diesel specific suspension with the assumption that nearly all the 400lbs of weight would be up front.

However, once they got a diesel in the shop and weighed it what they found was fairly balanced distribution of the extra weight.

Furthermore, they designed their springs around a 3.6 Rubicon, with some armor. The reault is the stock diesel is pretty close to what the springs were designed for.

According to the MC folks, a JLU Sport with no armor will likely see 3 to 3.25, maybe even a bit more, from the 2.5 GC. A Rubi diesel will see much closer to the true 2.5..

If this is all accurate, and i have no reason to believe it would not be, MC has a gret customer service reputation. Then to me it means the current GC is viable, but i will have to carefully watch weight as i add armor and parts.

They did say they had done mutliple installs on diesels in thier shop and verified all the measurements. So, that is my next big JLURD purchase.
 

Sponsored

rickinAZ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rick
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Threads
234
Messages
3,471
Reaction score
4,988
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon EcoDiesel (11th Jeep)
Occupation
Retired CFO. Mayo Clinic volunteer.
So just had a good conversation with the MC folks. They said they did start out planning for a diesel specific suspension with the assumption that nearly all the 400lbs of weight would be up front.

However, once they got a diesel in the shop and weighed it what they found was fairly balanced distribution of the extra weight.

Furthermore, they designed their springs around a 3.6 Rubicon, with some armor. The reault is the stock diesel is pretty close to what the springs were designed for.

According to the MC folks, a JLU Sport with no armor will likely see 3 to 3.25, maybe even a bit more, from the 2.5 GC. A Rubi diesel will see much closer to the true 2.5..

If this is all accurate, and i have no reason to believe it would not be, MC has a gret customer service reputation. Then to me it means the current GC is viable, but i will have to carefully watch weight as i add armor and parts.

They did say they had done mutliple installs on diesels in thier shop and verified all the measurements. So, that is my next big JLURD purchase.
Sounds like they are trying to justify having customers buy an existing lift that hasn't been specifically adapted for the Diesel. If it was that easy, why are other developers allowing themselves to be late to market by designing a more specific kit?
 

Themistocles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
408
Reaction score
702
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
'03 Ram 2500 Cummins / 20 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
Rick, you could be exactly right... that was my initial perspective as well. Sounds like the have weighed every wheel, pulled front and rear ends (unsprung weight) and weighed them and from what they said the results were a fairly even distrobution of weight and within the tolerance of the springs.

I guess the choicea are wait...see how it works out for others, buy an evo or some other diesel specific, or give it a go and see how it works.

Still havent completely made up my mind.
 

crazyjas

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
59
Reaction score
63
Location
Knoxville
Vehicle(s)
2021 JL 392
I for one am disappointed in this Rhetoric from a Great company that touts “game changing technology & best possible performance” for a top shelf system that will be most likely the starting point for many amazing/expensive/dream diesel builds composed of heavy aftermarket components that all add up where 200 lbs front + 200 lbs rear could mean the difference between stable or non- confidence inspiring. I have a 2021 JLURD on order that will be outfitted all the trimmings and then some with high end lift, quality bumpers front and rear, roof rack, revised steering components, larger tires & wheels w/tire carrier, winch, tools, go bags, large heavy recovery gear bag, lights, compressor, cb etc etc and don’t won’t to be maxing springs out before I put wife and child in car while maintain control in an emergency situation much less precarious off road off camber situations regularly. Thoughts?
 

rickinAZ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rick
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Threads
234
Messages
3,471
Reaction score
4,988
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon EcoDiesel (11th Jeep)
Occupation
Retired CFO. Mayo Clinic volunteer.
If JC Whitney sold lift kits, they would offer a one-size-fits-all lift kit like this. But, then again, they'd only charge $499 for it. What does Metalcloak charge?

Does JC Whitney even exist anymore? They were kind of the Harbor Freight for mail order accessories in the 60s/70s. [apologies to Harbor Freight :)]
 

WVB

Well-Known Member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
46
Reaction score
34
Location
Arvada, CO
Vehicle(s)
2020 Willys Unlimited 3.0L Diesel HellaYella
Some of you have absolutely no conception of tolerances in engineering. Insisting on a specifically designed spring set will result in you paying more for a kit “touted” as designed for a diesel when in reality it is the same stuff. Your money.‍:clap:
 

Sponsored

LowBama

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
May 27, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
204
Reaction score
111
Location
Mobile
Vehicle(s)
Silver JL
Occupation
Engineer
Has anyone installed. MC GC and seen it flexed out on a diesel? It’s my understanding our bump stops are longer and there is clearance issues on the front end due to diesel specific packaging. I’m wandering if there is any truth to this. My plan was to use MC links and get a spring shock package from Accutune.
 

Themistocles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
408
Reaction score
702
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
'03 Ram 2500 Cummins / 20 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
Has anyone installed. MC GC and seen it flexed out on a diesel? It’s my understanding our bump stops are longer and there is clearance issues on the front end due to diesel specific packaging. I’m wandering if there is any truth to this. My plan was to use MC links and get a spring shock package from Accutune.
Cwu on this forum recently put a 2.5 GC on his diesel.

This is the link to his build
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/cwus-punkn-diesel-build.49171/

He may be able to answer that for you.
 
Last edited:

Themistocles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
408
Reaction score
702
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
'03 Ram 2500 Cummins / 20 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
I just talked to Rock Krawler. They do have diesel specific springs. I should be getting an email from them with the spring rates soon.
 

crazyjas

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
59
Reaction score
63
Location
Knoxville
Vehicle(s)
2021 JL 392
I for one am disappointed in this Rhetoric from a Great company that touts “game changing technology & best possible performance” for a top shelf system that will be most likely the starting point for many amazing/expensive/dream diesel builds composed of heavy aftermarket components that all add up where 200 lbs front + 200 lbs rear could mean the difference between stable or non- confidence inspiring. I have a 2021 JLURD on order that will be outfitted all the trimmings and then some with high end lift, quality bumpers front and rear, roof rack, revised steering components, larger tires & wheels w/tire carrier, winch, tools, go bags, large heavy recovery gear bag, lights, compressor, cb etc etc and don’t won’t to be maxing springs out before I put wife and child in car while maintain control in an emergency situation much less precarious off road off camber situations regularly. Thoughts?
AEV sells a 10 gallon fuel caddy that will weigh in over 70lbs full, plus 100+lb wheel tire combos, and any other accessories like a jack etc. You could see 200lb load outs on a bumper swingout. Stock is rated for 86lbs or somewhere around that.
 

Themistocles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
408
Reaction score
702
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
'03 Ram 2500 Cummins / 20 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
I heard back from Rock Krawler. They said "The top rate is 175 the middle rate is 230. You will ride 2” before the transition at ride height."

---------------------------------
By comparison (from a previous RK post in a different thread):

Model - Stock SR/RK SR

JLU Sport - 114/121 Front 171/174 Rear
JLU Rubicon - 123/128 Front 172/176 Rear
Mopar 2" Coils Lift - 131/133 Front 180/182 Rear

Our (RK) 2.5" Coil Spring Rates are as follows in the ride zone

137.5 Front at Ride Height
175 Rear at Ride Height
3.5" Coils are already coming in so we will give you those too
140 Front at Ride Height
----------------------------------

The following is from a post by RubiRob back in 2018:

JLU Sport : 117 / 172
JLU Rubi : 125 / 174
Mopar lift : 132 / 181
Synergy : 120 / 175
Teraflex : 140
RK 2.5 : 137 / 175
RK 3.5 : 140 / 185

------------------------------------

My take away here is that the RK Diesel SR was substantially higher than I expected. I guessed it would be in the 150 range. Meaning, either RK created a super stiff set-up for the diesel, comparatively way stiffer then any of their other builds (I doubt this) or the folks saying that 125 - 140 rates will be fine are probably missing the boat.

I would get a difference like one company marketing a softer set-up (evo) and saying hey...for ride we think 160 or so is better...and another (RK) saying well we think 175 is better for a loaded trail vehicle... That kind of variance gives different folks choice in how they use their vehicles and the kind of ride they prefer. But, the difference between 175 and say an assumed MC rate of 135 or so, are big enough that, IMHO if one works the other doesn't.

As much as I wanted an MC suspension, I am heavily leaning toward a RK.
Sponsored

 
 



Top