DIESEL ADDITIVES. Should I do it?

[zouch]

depends on what you're wanting out of your fuel.

Renewable Diesel (like what's served up by Propel) is considered to be rather 'dry' (low in lubricity).
they claim to add lubricity additives to try to counteract it, but BioDiesel has better lubricity than any additive in some tests we've seen; even a few percentage points (B2, B6, etc.).
since BioD is blended into the fuel in many European countries, it's considered possible that that's one reason they don't see as high a rate of CP4.2 failures there compared to what we see in the US.

my fav blend is regular #2 PetroD with 5-20% BioD (B5-B20). if i can't get that i'll throw in a half-bottle of the Mopar Fuel Treatment additive that i picked up a case of when a local dealer shut down.

i rarely (if ever) ran an additive in my old diesel that i put over 100K miles on running straight or nearly straight (B99-B100 )BioDiesel in, but these CP4s are touchier due to the fact that they were designed to use the fuel for their internal lubrication and are running at much higher pressures (~28,500 PSI).

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[DewHawk]

I purchased a 2023 Jeep diesel Rubicon this past Saturday and while surfing this forum I see a lot of people recommend using a fuel additive. It will not hurt I am sure but I have logged over 300,000 miles on two different Chevrolet Duramax Diesels and have a VW Jetta diesel approaching 300,000 miles and have never used a drop of fuel additive in my life. So I probably won't use any in this jeep either. Maybe I should start...? Probably won't... as I can of find it a little ridiculous to think engineers would design a fuel pump that require extra lubrication to operate properly. Just my opinion...

I had the unique opportunity to discuss this at length with someone who's in the industry at EJS this year (he drives an Ecodiesel JT). He's a firm believer that none of them are worth the money compared to some of the latest renewable fuels that are currently expanding in the market. More specifically 'B99 Clear blows all of the other blends of ULSD and biodiesel away in terms of testing and data'. I guess they're projecting that it will eventually overtake ULSD #1 and #2 as the primary diesel fuel in the US in the next few years based on current production numbers. 'If it does, additives are gonna be a thing of the past for diesel'.

I had no idea what any of this was but after doing some reading, he's got a point. The cetane content alone is night and day better than #2. The beauty of B99 is how it's made vs traditional biodiesel. It's a direct replacement to traditional fossil diesel with cleaner ignition properties. Cleaner burn means better performance, better mpg, less soot, less emissions, and less junk accumulating around the engine. It's very promising stuff and I hope it continues to ramp up to the point that we start seeing it everywhere. He says he runs it all the time since he has direct access to it with his job in his JT and notices better fuel economy and smoother engine performance compared to running standard #2.

Until then, snake oil or not, I'm gonna keep using my hot shots EDT to remove any doubts. The ram ecodiesel forums are under the impression that the new recall CP4 has some kind of roller redesign/coating added to reduce friction. If I can find the post I'll link it here, but based on that info and the fact that I'm still on the original pump, it can't hurt to get a little extra lube running through there. ?‍

 

[RicRecon]

I had the unique opportunity to discuss this at length with someone who's in the industry at EJS this year (he drives an Ecodiesel JT). He's a firm believer that none of them are worth the money compared to some of the latest renewable fuels that are currently expanding in the market. More specifically 'B99 Clear blows all of the other blends of ULSD and biodiesel away in terms of testing and data'. I guess they're projecting that it will eventually overtake ULSD #1 and #2 as the primary diesel fuel in the US in the next few years based on current production numbers. 'If it does, additives are gonna be a thing of the past for diesel'.

I had no idea what any of this was but after doing some reading, he's got a point. The cetane content alone is night and day better than #2. The beauty of B99 is how it's made vs traditional biodiesel. It's a direct replacement to traditional fossil diesel with cleaner ignition properties. Cleaner burn means better performance, better mpg, less soot, less emissions, and less junk accumulating around the engine. It's very promising stuff and I hope it continues to ramp up to the point that we start seeing it everywhere. He says he runs it all the time since he has direct access to it with his job in his JT and notices better fuel economy and smoother engine performance compared to running standard #2.

Until then, snake oil or not, I'm gonna keep using my hot shots EDT to remove any doubts. The ram ecodiesel forums are under the impression that the new recall CP4 has some kind of roller redesign/coating added to reduce friction. If I can find the post I'll link it here, but based on that info and the fact that I'm still on the original pump, it can't hurt to get a little extra lube running through there. ?‍

interesting info

depends on what you're wanting out of your fuel.

Renewable Diesel (like what's served up by Propel) is considered to be rather 'dry' (low in lubricity).
they claim to add lubricity additives to try to counteract it, but BioDiesel has better lubricity than any additive in some tests we've seen; even a few percentage points (B2, B6, etc.).
since BioD is blended into the fuel in many European countries, it's considered possible that that's one reason they don't see as high a rate of CP4.2 failures there compared to what we see in the US.

my fav blend is regular #2 PetroD with 5-20% BioD (B5-B20). if i can't get that i'll throw in a half-bottle of the Mopar Fuel Treatment additive that i picked up a case of when a local dealer shut down.

i rarely (if ever) ran an additive in my old diesel that i put over 100K miles on running straight or nearly straight (B99-B100 )BioDiesel in, but these CP4s are touchier due to the fact that they were designed to use the fuel for their internal lubrication and are running at much higher pressures (~28,500 PSI).

I primarily use Propel diesel and have for 48k miles. Interesting you find it has less lubrication than they’ve stated. I used to only use additives when traveling out of state because I noticed a huge difference in mileage and how the engine ran using normal diesel for longer than a few fill ups. Last 20k I’ve used additives full time only because I don’t want my pump to implode.

 

[zouch]

don't think i was talking about *my* findings; they're cagey about it, but if you read closely you'll find that even Propel states that they have to add lubricant additives to the Neste fuel they're serving up.
Renewable Diesel just doesn't naturally have even the lubricity of #2, and requires lubricity additives to try to get close to the US standards.

if you're into the petro-free sort of thing, there are stations around now that are dispensing Renewable Diesel blended with BioDiesel for the lubricity (R80/B20). some people consider that the best solution currently available.

interesting info


I primarily use Propel diesel and have for 48k miles. Interesting you find it has less lubrication than they’ve stated. I used to only use additives when traveling out of state because I noticed a huge difference in mileage and how the engine ran using normal diesel for longer than a few fill ups. Last 20k I’ve used additives full time only because I don’t want my pump to implode.

 

[RicRecon]

don't think i was talking about *my* findings; they're cagey about it, but if you read closely you'll find that even Propel states that they have to add lubricant additives to the Neste fuel they're serving up.
Renewable Diesel just doesn't naturally have even the lubricity of #2, and requires lubricity additives to try to get close to the US standards.

if you're into the petro-free sort of thing, there are stations around now that are dispensing Renewable Diesel blended with BioDiesel for the lubricity (R80/B20). some people consider that the best solution currently available.

When I referred to it as “your” findings, I was referring more to the fact that you read more about it and I apparently missed this when I researched it previously. I’ll have to be on the lookout for stations that offer that blended option. Do you use the blend and are there specific stations?

 

[zouch]

gotcha'; sorry i misunderstood.

R80/B20? yes, i've tried it; seemed like it ran a little smoother than the Propel Renewable (the R80 part is actually the same Neste Renewable as Propels) but it could all be in my head. i do know that i use very tiny amounts of DEF compared to what some people report, and have to think the BioFuels might have something to do with it.

all the Renewable and renewable blends seemed to give me very slightly lower fuel economy than PetroD or PetroD with a BioD blended in. i haven't run the R80B20 in severe cold, but don't know how much i'd worry about it since the BioD content is fairly low for the temps i see in the Sierra. if i were to be in a situation where i was in true cold i'd probably top off with whatever they're running there once i got there to further minimize any possibility of BioD gelling, but i had my old Mercedes with B99 BioD in it covered in snow for days and had it still start and run (albeit weakly at first). i'm a little touchier about all the delicate high-tech stuff in our EcoDiesels and don't know if i'd be willing to try that intentionally, but i never run higher than a 20% BioD blend in that thing anyway.

not sure where you're at in NorCal, but we have a station right down the street from here in Berkeley that dispenses the R80/B20 blend at the pump (the Biofuel Oasis), or will possibly sell you B99 in containers so you can blend yourself.
some people buy the B99 and just add tiny bits as an additive, but i'd want to make sure i was using it fast enough that it didn't get old.

i find various blends of PetroD-based B5-B20 all over, but you have to read the stickers carefully. Chevron used to be dispensing it at some of my fav stations, but their stickering is so odd that it's hard to be certain what they're dispensing now.
i find some of the cheapy National Petroleum stations are dispensing PetroD with 5-20% BioD and frequently use that with no problems.

When I referred to it as “your” findings, I was referring more to the fact that you read more about it and I apparently missed this when I researched it previously. I’ll have to be on the lookout for stations that offer that blended option. Do you use the blend and are there specific stations?

 

[RicRecon]

gotcha'; sorry i misunderstood.

R80/B20? yes, i've tried it; seemed like it ran a little smoother than the Propel Renewable (the R80 part is actually the same Neste Renewable as Propels) but it could all be in my head. i do know that i use very tiny amounts of DEF compared to what some people report, and have to think the BioFuels might have something to do with it.

all the Renewable and renewable blends seemed to give me very slightly lower fuel economy than PetroD or PetroD with a BioD blended in. i haven't run the R80B20 in severe cold, but don't know how much i'd worry about it since the BioD content is fairly low for the temps i see in the Sierra. if i were to be in a situation where i was in true cold i'd probably top off with whatever they're running there once i got there to further minimize any possibility of BioD gelling, but i had my old Mercedes with B99 BioD in it covered in snow for days and had it still start and run (albeit weakly at first). i'm a little touchier about all the delicate high-tech stuff in our EcoDiesels and don't know if i'd be willing to try that intentionally, but i never run higher than a 20% BioD blend in that thing anyway.

not sure where you're at in NorCal, but we have a station right down the street from here in Berkeley that dispenses the R80/B20 blend at the pump (the Biofuel Oasis), or will possibly sell you B99 in containers so you can blend yourself.
some people buy the B99 and just add tiny bits as an additive, but i'd want to make sure i was using it fast enough that it didn't get old.

i find various blends of PetroD-based B5-B20 all over, but you have to read the stickers carefully. Chevron used to be dispensing it at some of my fav stations, but their stickering is so odd that it's hard to be certain what they're dispensing now.
i find some of the cheapy National Petroleum stations are dispensing PetroD with 5-20% BioD and frequently use that with no problems.

No offense taken. I’m in the Sacramento area. I’ll be on the lookout for PetroD dispensers and give it a try. Even though mine runs smooth on the Propel and my fuel filters cone out pretty decently clean, I have noticed lower mileage over the last year so I’m willing to give it a try. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Jwobes]

I had the unique opportunity to discuss this at length with someone who's in the industry at EJS this year (he drives an Ecodiesel JT). He's a firm believer that none of them are worth the money compared to some of the latest renewable fuels that are currently expanding in the market. More specifically 'B99 Clear blows all of the other blends of ULSD and biodiesel away in terms of testing and data'. I guess they're projecting that it will eventually overtake ULSD #1 and #2 as the primary diesel fuel in the US in the next few years based on current production numbers. 'If it does, additives are gonna be a thing of the past for diesel'.

I had no idea what any of this was but after doing some reading, he's got a point. The cetane content alone is night and day better than #2. The beauty of B99 is how it's made vs traditional biodiesel. It's a direct replacement to traditional fossil diesel with cleaner ignition properties. Cleaner burn means better performance, better mpg, less soot, less emissions, and less junk accumulating around the engine. It's very promising stuff and I hope it continues to ramp up to the point that we start seeing it everywhere. He says he runs it all the time since he has direct access to it with his job in his JT and notices better fuel economy and smoother engine performance compared to running standard #2.

Until then, snake oil or not, I'm gonna keep using my hot shots EDT to remove any doubts. The ram ecodiesel forums are under the impression that the new recall CP4 has some kind of roller redesign/coating added to reduce friction. If I can find the post I'll link it here, but based on that info and the fact that I'm still on the original pump, it can't hurt to get a little extra lube running through there. ?‍

I use hot shots every tank after my CP4 pump failure 2 years ago. I have a partnership with them and I wanted to post this on the thread so everyone has access to the 10% off code!

 

[driventoadventure]

No offense taken. I’m in the Sacramento area. I’ll be on the lookout for PetroD dispensers and give it a try. Even though mine runs smooth on the Propel and my fuel filters cone out pretty decently clean, I have noticed lower mileage over the last year so I’m willing to give it a try. Thanks for the thoughts.

Unless I am misremembering, most of the Propel pumps have Petro based B20... There was a station at Stanford Ranch and Five Star in Roseville that I would frequently fill my Diesels at and it was B20 using Petro Diesel. Did that change at some point where they're using Renewable only?

 

[RicRecon]

Unless I am misremembering, most of the Propel pumps have Petro based B20... There was a station at Stanford Ranch and Five Star in Roseville that I would frequently fill my Diesels at and it was B20 using Petro Diesel. Did that change at some point where they're using Renewable only?

I don’t go to the Five Star station very often but the ones in Citrus Heights and in Roseville at Sunrise and Kirby don’t have a B20 sticker on the pumps.

 

[Tredsdert]

I recently switched over from Hot shots EDT which is expensive to Marvel Mystery Oil which is about half the cost for a gallon.

I know they say not to use it in diesels, but I don't buy into that BS. Part of the reason why they had to instill the DEF system is because they cut out all the sulfur out of the diesels. While sulfur is not good for the environment, it is wonderful for diesel engines. They dropped our diesel fuel from an average of about 200 PPM to around 15 PPM. Marvel Mystery Oil will increase your diesel fuel's PPM from 15 to 16, OH NO, THE HORRORS!!

Beyond that Marvel mystery Oil is great for diesels, That's why previous versions of their bottle label stated such. It's only thinks the EPA that they have a new label stating it's not for diesels.

Stupid EPA, misleading information is for morons who don't do their research and trust everything you say.

 

[Tread4Lo]

@Jwobes Well, looking at Doc's right now. Our oil filter and fuel filter is sold out. I've signed up for a notification when they get some in, hopefully it's before the next 4,000 miles for my next oil change.

 

[grimmjeeper]

@Jwobes Well, looking at Doc's right now. Our oil filter and fuel filter is sold out. I've signed up for a notification when they get some in, hopefully it's before the next 4,000 miles for my next oil change.

Always a good idea to buy a few when they're available. Restock when your supply starts to get low. That way you always have one when you need it.

 

[Tread4Lo]

@grimmjeeper That's what I did last time, bought two oil filters and one fuel. This gives me another 10,000 miles (or about a year worth of changes). This time around, I will probably go for four oil and two fuel.

 

[garykk]

Hello all,

Finally was able to get my hands on diesel. Very happy with it. However, given witch hunt in California with anything diesel, I want to keep my diesel running top shape and figure out to start now than later. What have you done regarding additives? Should I do it? Any specific brand preferred than other?

Thank you for all the help and guidance!

You don’t mentioned if your Diesel had the fuel pump recall. If has not, I would certainly use an additive. That being said, according to Jeep, the “ new” pump does not need an additive. For all that’s worth.

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