Did Jeep Mistakingly Over Price The Wrangler?

[thenewrick]

It’s not about price so much as what you get for the money. Jeeps are pretty simple, small cheap engines suspensions and chassis. Not a huge amount of tech. That’s why it’s surprising how expensive it is. But, if they sell they sell. Wouldn’t make sense for Fiat to make them cheaper than they need to be.

Sponsored

 

[JHJLUR]

It’s not about price so much as what you get for the money. Jeeps are pretty simple, small cheap engines suspensions and chassis. Not a huge amount of tech. That’s why it’s surprising how expensive it is. But, if they sell they sell. Wouldn’t make sense for Fiat to make them cheaper than they need to be.

Oh lawd... hahaha

 

[Cal_JLU]

Tried to read through this whole thread, but I couldn't take it after a while. I love seeing the "high fives" between the guys that can afford -and are apparently ordering- JLUR's attempting to school everyone that's unhappy w/ pricing through their "wisdom". I think anyone who realizes that something they want is beyond their economic reach experiences the natural disappointment that ensues from that realization and so choose to vent.

There really isn't that much to it folks; supply and demand. However, the Bronco may save the day on the used JL market side of things, but that won't happen immediately.

 

[Jeeptimus Prime]

Oh lawd... hahaha

Nearly spit out my beer. Obviously thenewrick is new to the Jeep game so he can get a pass...

 

[BBQCHICKENALERT]

I'm only speaking for myself here but the outright price isn't the issue. A JLU Sport starting at $31k is fair. A fully loaded Rubi at $50k is also fair.

It's not about whether i can personally afford one or not. If I couldn't afford one at all, I would not be on this forum. I think it's safe to say that most of us here are in the same boat.

The thing that I am turned off by is that you shouldn't have to buy a $40k Sahara just to get LED's. I know you can add them from Mopar later. The issue is that it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Why don't we have the option to get some decent headlights on a Sport or Sport S? If you add it later, it will cost you significantly more money for what you get. It's little "easter eggs" like that which makes potential customers second guess their decisions.

A JLU Sport with no options other than an Automatic is still a $34k vehicle. What other vehicle at that price point does not come with standard power windows and door locks? It's 2018 and this generation will most likely stay with us until damn near 2030. If someone does not want those features, it should be a no cost option.

One thing that FCA and the JL Wrangler develop team has been great at is listening to its core customer base (and potential customer base). The JL would not have stayed the way it is with its live axles if they did not listen to us. I guarantee you there are teams browsing through forums and combing through the internet taking notes on our initial reactions. They will hear our complaints. And they will do something about it if there is enough feedback.

These vehicles are a cash cow for FCA and they will 100% make a killing from the JL/JLU. But adding 10% more sales does not mean 10% more profit. Modern vehicle production costs have a huge initial fixed development cost that is amortized throughout the entire production cycle (not necessarily how it is accounted for tax purposes but that's a whole other subject). What that means is that each and every extra sale lowers the average production cost of each and every vehicle sold during production thus increasing profits for every unit sold.

If they realize that there is a potential sales increase by offering a special edition for 2019 or 2020 with just the high demand options, they will do it. I imagine something like an available LED package, power everything, body colored fenders and SelecTrac to slot in between the cost of a Sport S and a Sahara would do wonders. Or better yet a version that has steel wheels like the Sport but with power door locks and windows.

We all know the special editions are coming. The important part is for people to speak up. Post your opinions. There is no right or wrong. Explain why you are or are not ordering a JL and what you would like to see changed. FCA will get a better understanding of what it needs to do to increase sales instead of just shooting in the dark. The consumers will get products that better fit their needs. This benefits everyone.

 

[Spank]

Tried to read through this whole thread, but I couldn't take it after a while. I love seeing the "high fives" between the guys that can afford -and are apparently ordering- JLUR's attempting to school everyone that's unhappy w/ pricing through their "wisdom". I think anyone who realizes that something they want is beyond their economic reach experiences the natural disappointment that ensues from that realization and so choose to vent.

I can afford a fully loaded JLUR and I think prices are ridiculous. I'm kinda thinking some of the folks who are blindly defending the Wrangler's cost increase either haven't had a lot of experience with the JK over the past ten years or have forgotten its insanely rocky start.

A fully loaded Rubi at $50k is also fair.

No, it isn't. Not quite yet. Jeep doesn't have the reputation nor the pride in their products to warrant such a defense. The JL is untested in the longevity department. Yes, we're all impressed by what it can do on the trail in the videos we've seen. Yes, it's remarkably better than the JK in virtually every way. And yeah, FCA is making an effort to do better with quality, but they still have a lot to prove. They need to not screw up the infancy of the JL like they did the JK.

Anyone who owned a JK during its first few years know what I'm talking about. And I'm not referring to the silly Pentastar head problem, but before that. I'm talking the early days of static electricity freaking out the WCM and causing the engine not to start, the faulty fuel filler neck causing gas to spray all over the back of your Jeep and onto you when pumping to a full tank, axles not properly assembled resulting in bent tubes when you hit a pothole, dash lighting on the instrument cluster and switches failing, the laughably bad TOBs that were a part of the equally bad manual transmission, bad paint, automatic transmissions overheating that resulted in some Wranglers catching on fire, plastic soft top headers that would warp from the sun and cause water leaks, evap canisters falling apart, engines that made oil magically disappear, sway bar disconnect motors that might have lasted a year so long as you exposed it to as little environment as possible, and so on and so forth.

Yeah, if you look back, the JK kinda started out as a big piece of shit. It was bad. But they eventually ironed out a lot of those problems, Fiat ironed out some more, and ten years later, the JK is now a very solid, reliable, and confident vehicle. Although Chrysler is a different company now than it was ten years ago, they still have a reputation of having some less-than-stellar vehicle launches.

So, lets at least get through the first year of the JL and make sure it isn't the absolute fustercluck the JK was before we start defending the insane price tags being slapped on new Wranglers.

 

[azfun]

Maxmk8

Why are you comparing period products from 2006 now? In 2006(update 2012) the JK was not archaic and it definitely was not overpriced. JL is the opposite items that should be standard are optional and MSRP is to high.

Maxmk8 also Jeep Wrangler never got 250k sales a year any of the years and only average about 150k so you’re sources are wrong

Attached are the annual U.S. Sales figures and the average is just under 200K. Worldwide annual sales are significantly more than 250,000 units..

 

[Jeepster2018]

Think many might come to your same conclusion.

Granted many in here have expressed otherwise, but after the initial rush of orders have waved through, time will tell..

When I first started thinking a new Jeep would be cool a few months ago, I had no idea what Jeeps cost. I thought a loaded up 2-door was around $25k and a high end max spec Rubicon Unlimited was around $35k. My plan was to get a modest 2-door for about $22k.

I wanted a fun, reliable 2nd car to haul my boat and do stuff my car wasn't best suited for on the cheap. I'm out of the market for one now though. The one I specced out was $40k and not even fully loaded.I know they sell well and make a ton of money for Fiat, but damn.

 

[MEO73]

The only “fair” price is the price a buyer and seller can agree on. There is no mythical “fair” price. Jeep wants to sell a certain number of vehicles. It knows how much it costs to produce one. They try to decide how much profit they would like to make. They advertise the vehicle at that price. Buyers either will or will not buy it. If demand is high, they may raise the price. If demand is low, they may have to lower the price. The market place will sort it out. Just because a certain segment of buyers can’t (or won’t) pay a certain price for a certain vehicle doesn’t mean it’s “overpriced.” It means it’s either overpriced for them or it’s something they simply refuse to pay that much for. The free market is a miraculous thing.

 

[Jeepster2018]

Well stated and that was my purpose of this thread.

The way the standard and optional features are aligned is a bit skewed.

I'm only speaking for myself here but the outright price isn't the issue. A JLU Sport starting at $31k is fair. A fully loaded Rubi at $50k is also fair.

It's not about whether i can personally afford one or not. If I couldn't afford one at all, I would not be on this forum. I think it's safe to say that most of us here are in the same boat.

The thing that I am turned off by is that you shouldn't have to buy a $40k Sahara just to get LED's. I know you can add them from Mopar later. The issue is that it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Why don't we have the option to get some decent headlights on a Sport or Sport S? If you add it later, it will cost you significantly more money for what you get. It's little "easter eggs" like that which makes potential customers second guess their decisions.

A JLU Sport with no options other than an Automatic is still a $34k vehicle. What other vehicle at that price point does not come with standard power windows and door locks? It's 2018 and this generation will most likely stay with us until damn near 2030. If someone does not want those features, it should be a no cost option.

One thing that FCA and the JL Wrangler develop team has been great at is listening to its core customer base (and potential customer base). The JL would not have stayed the way it is with its live axles if they did not listen to us. I guarantee you there are teams browsing through forums and combing through the internet taking notes on our initial reactions. They will hear our complaints. And they will do something about it if there is enough feedback.

These vehicles are a cash cow for FCA and they will 100% make a killing from the JL/JLU. But adding 10% more sales does not mean 10% more profit. Modern vehicle production costs have a huge initial fixed development cost that is amortized throughout the entire production cycle (not necessarily how it is accounted for tax purposes but that's a whole other subject). What that means is that each and every extra sale lowers the average production cost of each and every vehicle sold during production thus increasing profits for every unit sold.

If they realize that there is a potential sales increase by offering a special edition for 2019 or 2020 with just the high demand options, they will do it. I imagine something like an available LED package, power everything, body colored fenders and SelecTrac to slot in between the cost of a Sport S and a Sahara would do wonders. Or better yet a version that has steel wheels like the Sport but with power door locks and windows.

We all know the special editions are coming. The important part is for people to speak up. Post your opinions. There is no right or wrong. Explain why you are or are not ordering a JL and what you would like to see changed. FCA will get a better understanding of what it needs to do to increase sales instead of just shooting in the dark. The consumers will get products that better fit their needs. This benefits everyone.

 

[JHJLUR]

Well stated and that was my purpose of this thread.

The way the standard and optional features are aligned is a bit skewed.

I’m sure there will be special editions to cure some of those concerns, I’m also fairly confident that in the next few years LED will be standard ( although they’ll probably work that in with a small price increase) I really doubt the spent much R&D on those halogens and I can’t see them lasting very long... I think it’s also important to remember, this is a launch, it appears they are methodically rolling things out.. we are all impatient because we want everything 100% from the start when in reality it’s going to take another year + until some of the voids are filled.

 

[thenewrick]

I have pretty much the same opinion on full size trucks as I do with the Wrangler. Surprisingly expensive for how simple and cheap to build they are. But it’s all market forces as others have said. No hate. Good on Fiat for playing the game.

With Mercedes and Tesla soon getting into the lux-truck game also it seems to be a sure bet. I have a feeling the premium brands will be over engineering theirs and missing the formula tho and not being as successful.

There’s always inflation too but usually production methods and volume counter that a little bit. But perhaps the bronco and an unforeseen competitor may push Fiat a little harder. I wonder how much the hybrid will be $65k loaded up?

 

[RussJeep1]

It's easy to want to take stabs at FCA for the prices they've initially set for the JL. Frustration often needs a scapegoat and for many of us--present company included--we are finding ourselves limiting the options we order our JL with, waiting on our orders, or looking at alternatives to the JL that better suit our budget.

And it's easy to take that frustration out on FCA--after all they set these prices.

But do appreciate that as a for profit company, let alone one whose assets are owned by shareholders, the firm's management has an obligation to its shareholders (not us--unless we're also share holders) to charge whatever price will maximize this profit.

(Wait, I'm a shareholder, shouldn't I get a special price? No. Rather, if your stock in FCA rises in value as a result of such profit, you can choose to sell it, and use the proceeds to buy your Wrangler at fair market value.)

"But where's FCA's loyalty to its customer base," you may cry. OK. Let's look at this in reverse. Do you love FCA so much that you would pay 1 penny more than you have to on your order? I hope not. I wouldn't. You shouldn't have to. FCA doesn't hold a grudge against you for being an astute buyer.

====

I hear the cries of those claiming I have some connection to FCA. I don't. If I own shares in FCA it's only some tiny part of some retirement mutual fund I may have shares of, unaware, and whose buy, sell, or hold decisions are made by fund managers that I have no control over, short of selling my shares in such a fund.

I'm not here to come to FCA's defense, except when they are unfairly targeted. If they or others unfairly target their market I'll just as firmly come to the market's defense.

These are facts. You can choose to dislike them and wish like me that the Wrangler was more affordable. I wish there were more competitors to the Wrangler. It would motivate FCA to offer more features, more features standard, and lower prices. But is not FCA's fault that other manufacturers haven't come out with (or kept, e.g. Toyota FJ Cruiser) a model in its marketspace with anywhere near the success the Wrangler enjoys, or its aftermarket.

 

[thenewrick]

Maybe the new Bronco will come out and be rad and nobody will buy them and they will get cheap in a hurry!

I have a feeling the Bronco is going to be a bubbly bland crossover with 4x4 and not be very special. Be nice to see a 4Runner in the mix again too.

The biggest appeal of the Wrangler for me is doors off/roof off and in the early days, potential for a manual transmission with a turbo. Now I’m stuck with an automatic 40k. :/ lost most interest. But, ya never know what the future will hold!

 

[Indio]

The only “fair” price is the price a buyer and seller can agree on. There is no mythical “fair” price. Jeep wants to sell a certain number of vehicles. It knows how much it costs to produce one. They try to decide how much profit they would like to make. They advertise the vehicle at that price. Buyers either will or will not buy it. If demand is high, they may raise the price. If demand is low, they may have to lower the price. The market place will sort it out. Just because a certain segment of buyers can’t (or won’t) pay a certain price for a certain vehicle doesn’t mean it’s “overpriced.” It means it’s either overpriced for them or it’s something they simply refuse to pay that much for. The free market is a miraculous thing.

Depends on how the terms are defined. Two persons can agree on a price, with one person still feeling the price was not "fair", or that the item offered was "overpriced". Sure in pharma bro world, if current market circumstance allows jacking of a needed drug price by 1000%, the price is "fair" if people buy it. Well at least "the market place will sort it out", although the individual might be dead by then. Fortunately we are just talking Jeeps, lol.

Sponsored