Death Wobble - Clayton Lift

[hondolane]

Hello

First post here.. we just took delivery of a 2018 JL from Vroom (sore subject dealing with them).

Great deal on the Jeep (yuge upgrade from my last one, CJ7) and it came with a brand new Clayton lift with Fox 2.0 shocks and upgraded lower control arms, tie rods, etc. new wheels and 35” tires

We took it for a ride and in the first 5 miles we had horrible death wobble. Drove it some more and seemed to be a once off thing. Now it’s back.

We took it to a reputable off-road shop to have diagnosed. They said other than balance off by 3.00 oz on the fronts, camber slightly out they cannot find the root cause of the DW.

This was bought for a daily driver for my wife.

What could cause be? Would the style of lift (Clayton) be more geared for off-road than on road cause it?

Vroom is working with me on correcting this and willing to make it right whether that be to send it back or possible new lift install.

Thanks for any help or guidance!!

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[jhackathorne]

What is your tire pressure? Death Wobble is often mistaken when it is another issue. Over inflated tires are one such issue where people think it is DW.

Also the Clayton Lift is good for both on and off road use. So that is not going to be the issue. Installation may be the issue however. You said it had a new lift installed when you bought it? Who installed it? Also did they check all the bolts/nuts and ensure everything is torque'd to spec at the off-road shop?

 

[EbyCreek]

What is the current mileage on the jeep?

 

[GtX]

Please define your death wobble scenario.
What initiates it?
What happens when it starts?
What you do to stop it?

A lot of people confuse vibration issues with death wobble. Not saying you are but it helps to know what we're dealing with.

 

[Cycle11111]

Hello

First post here.. we just took delivery of a 2018 JL from Vroom (sore subject dealing with them).

Great deal on the Jeep (yuge upgrade from my last one, CJ7) and it came with a brand new Clayton lift with Fox 2.0 shocks and upgraded lower control arms, tie rods, etc. new wheels and 35” tires

We took it for a ride and in the first 5 miles we had horrible death wobble. Drove it some more and seemed to be a once off thing. Now it’s back.

We took it to a reputable off-road shop to have diagnosed. They said other than balance off by 3.00 oz on the fronts, camber slightly out they cannot find the root cause of the DW.

This was bought for a daily driver for my wife.

What could cause be? Would the style of lift (Clayton) be more geared for off-road than on road cause it?

Vroom is working with me on correcting this and willing to make it right whether that be to send it back or possible new lift install.

Thanks for any help or guidance!!

Watching YouTube on this topic a few times it would appear that the Track Bar is a very common culprit - either loose bolts or oval out bolt holes

 

[oceanblue2019]

Hello

First post here.. we just took delivery of a 2018 JL from Vroom (sore subject dealing with them).

Great deal on the Jeep (yuge upgrade from my last one, CJ7) and it came with a brand new Clayton lift with Fox 2.0 shocks and upgraded lower control arms, tie rods, etc. new wheels and 35” tires

We took it for a ride and in the first 5 miles we had horrible death wobble. Drove it some more and seemed to be a once off thing. Now it’s back.

We took it to a reputable off-road shop to have diagnosed. They said other than balance off by 3.00 oz on the fronts, camber slightly out they cannot find the root cause of the DW.

This was bought for a daily driver for my wife.

What could cause be? Would the style of lift (Clayton) be more geared for off-road than on road cause it?

Vroom is working with me on correcting this and willing to make it right whether that be to send it back or possible new lift install.

Thanks for any help or guidance!!

Balljoints are likely shot. 2018 with bigger tires is what's making me suspect this.

My balljoints were gone at 28,000 miles on a 2019 on 35's. Many others on here with similar experience.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Hello

First post here.. we just took delivery of a 2018 JL from Vroom (sore subject dealing with them).

Great deal on the Jeep (yuge upgrade from my last one, CJ7) and it came with a brand new Clayton lift with Fox 2.0 shocks and upgraded lower control arms, tie rods, etc. new wheels and 35” tires

We took it for a ride and in the first 5 miles we had horrible death wobble. Drove it some more and seemed to be a once off thing. Now it’s back.

We took it to a reputable off-road shop to have diagnosed. They said other than balance off by 3.00 oz on the fronts, camber slightly out they cannot find the root cause of the DW.

This was bought for a daily driver for my wife.

What could cause be? Would the style of lift (Clayton) be more geared for off-road than on road cause it?

Vroom is working with me on correcting this and willing to make it right whether that be to send it back or possible new lift install.

Thanks for any help or guidance!!

As someone mentioned, check the torque on the tierod to knuckle joints and draglink to knuckle as well as the other end where it connects to the pitman arm. The nuts holding the tierod ends and draglink end to the knuckles are torqued to 47 ft/lbs, and the draglink to pitman arm is torqued to 77 ft/lbs. Also check the torque of the trackbar bolts where they are hooked to the frame and axle. The trackbar frame end is torqued to 74 ft/lbs plus 30 degrees of rotation. The axle end is torqued to 74 ft/lbs plus 60 degrees of rotation. Keep in mind that the aluminum steering knuckles can get damaged from loose connections. They have an internal taper that the tierod and draglink ends have a mating tapered stud that should fit tightly into. If they were run loose, the tapers are likely egged out a bit and this will allow some movement.

I can tell you the 2018-19 model years had a bad front trackbar. It wasn't the bar itself, but the bushings were too soft and allowed the front axle to move slightly back and forth. This not only allowed for the wobble (a.k.a. "death wobble"), but also gave the steering a spongy feel. If you have a factory Jeep trackbar, make sure it's this part number 68394087AA . It should have a white tape/tag on the bar somewhere with the part number. If it's 68317849AA, its the bad one. If you have an aftermarket trackbar, let's assume it's good for now and move on to other possibilities.

The steering box on the 18 has been infamous for being very loose. This will allow the wheels to wobble before the play is taken up. If you have the original aluminum (silver color) steering box, it should be changed out to the new cast iron/steel box. A dealer may change this free of charge even if its out of warranty. Maybe, maybe not. (1) New JL Steering Issue TSB 08-074-20 (for "Improved Steering Feel") | Jeep Wrangler Forums (JL / JLU) - Rubicon, Sahara, Sport, 4xe, 392 - JLwranglerforums.com

The tierod and draglink ends should be checked for any play from wear. No detectable play should be in them.

Ball joints. They need to be checked for play because the OEM ball joints have a nylon liner that beats/wears out, which will allow the wheels to wobble.

Hub/wheel bearings. These need to be checked because any play will allow wobble.

I've listed these in the order I would check them. All of them are important and could individually or in any combination contribute to death wobble.

 

[kbp810]

As already asked above; what was the symptoms and the trigger (if known). A lot of people mistake a vibration, shimmy, or wander as death wobble, but death wobble is a very sudden and violent feeling shaking in the front of the jeep, where the axle and body are both in rhythm trying to repeatedly go opposite directions.

The most common cause of true death wobble is a loose track bar (or bad bushing in trackbar); though a severely out of balanced tire can also mimic the symptoms (I'm talking about, way, way, way, out of balance... like big chunk of ice stuck to one side of a wheel kind of thing; the typical out of balance scenario is going to be more so just a vibration or shimmy). First place I would start is watching for play in any of the bushings (starting with trackbar) while someone else turned the steering wheel back and forth... something the shop you took it to hopefully would have done?

 

[roaniecowpony]

As already asked above; what was the symptoms and the trigger (if known). A lot of people mistake a vibration, shimmy, or wander as death wobble, but death wobble is a very sudden and violent feeling shaking in the front of the jeep, where the axle and body are both in rhythm trying to repeatedly go opposite directions.

The most common cause of true death wobble is a loose track bar (or bad bushing in trackbar); though a severely out of balanced tire can also mimic the symptoms (I'm talking about, way, way, way, out of balance... like big chunk of ice stuck to one side of a wheel kind of thing; the typical out of balance scenario is going to be more so just a vibration or shimmy). First place I would start is watching for play in any of the bushings (starting with trackbar) while someone else turned the steering wheel back and forth... something the shop you took it to hopefully would have done?

This is an excellent point. Having someone move the steering wheel back and forth (with the tires on the ground) while observing to look for any play in the joint/bushing. Keep well clear of any steering parts with your limbs unless you want them crushed.

 

[Dudley Dawson]

Good advice above. I have an “entry” Clayton lift on 35s and Fox shocks - many miles with no issues at all. But even their most basic kits include front and rear track bars (and they are robust with quality bushings). You mentioned lower arms so I’m assuming it’s a full kit (8 arms etc.). Hard to know without more details. As alluded to above, possible the kit wasn’t torqued to spec. A lot of potential culprits. Heck, I had the steering damper recall performed on my Jeep and the dealer installed it upside down. First expansion joint I hit on the interstate I got major steering wheel shimmy (often mistaken for DW).

 

[Dawgbytes]

What is your tire pressure? Death Wobble is often mistaken when it is another issue. Over inflated tires are one such issue where people think it is DW.

Also the Clayton Lift is good for both on and off road use. So that is not going to be the issue. Installation may be the issue however. You said it had a new lift installed when you bought it? Who installed it? Also did they check all the bolts/nuts and ensure everything is torque'd to spec at the off-road shop?

This morning my tire pressure monitor showed all my tires at 30 psi with a message to fill them to 36 psi which I did. Upon leaving the gas station, on three separate occasions within a 10 mile stretch of interstate I experienced the death wobble. Horrifying the first time you experience it. Had to stop all 3 times. Have on occasion felt the front driver side tire seem to bounce for several seconds before smoothing out when hitting a significant bump. Happening on 2021 Sahara High Altitude. Think I will back off the PSI and see what happens. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[roaniecowpony]

This morning my tire pressure monitor showed all my tires at 30 psi with a message to fill them to 36 psi which I did. Upon leaving the gas station, on three separate occasions within a 10 mile stretch of interstate I experienced the death wobble. Horrifying the first time you experience it. Had to stop all 3 times. Have on occasion felt the front driver side tire seem to bounce for several seconds before smoothing out when hitting a significant bump. Happening on 2021 Sahara High Altitude. Think I will back off the PSI and see what happens. Any thoughts appreciated.

I could never tell much difference in shimmy (not DW) when changing tire pressure. IMO, you have to find the root cause and fix it.

 

[hondolane]

Its a 2018 with 27,600 miles. Not sure when and for how long it had the lift and 35s. CarFax shows it was a lease vehicle (so I assume stock) for the first 5K. Then it was with a second owner from 5-27,600 when I bought it.

Since I posted.. I had it at a shop and they went all over the thing. They balanced the tires, did and alignment, and checked all of the hardware. The tech seems to think the Clayton lift was designed more for off-road than on-road and the flex of the lift would cause it. Other than that.. he is stumped. I am not to sure I buy that excuse since the remedy was to install a new lift more conducive to on-road use. hmmm

As far as triggers... I know of a spot on a road not far from my home that I travel at approx 35mph. The pothole on the right pavement edge causes it when I clip it. To get it to stop I can accelerate and it seems to work, or sometimes I slow down and it will stop it. I never have had to completely pull over.

The tires are brand new and have a cold psi rating of 65psi. I believe they are sitting at 35psi.

We really LOVE this Jeep and want to see it come out in our favor...

 

[roaniecowpony]

Its a 2018 with 27,600 miles. Not sure when and for how long it had the lift and 35s. CarFax shows it was a lease vehicle (so I assume stock) for the first 5K. Then it was with a second owner from 5-27,600 when I bought it.

Since I posted.. I had it at a shop and they went all over the thing. They balanced the tires, did and alignment, and checked all of the hardware. The tech seems to think the Clayton lift was designed more for off-road than on-road and the flex of the lift would cause it. Other than that.. he is stumped. I am not to sure I buy that excuse since the remedy was to install a new lift more conducive to on-road use. hmmm

As far as triggers... I know of a spot on a road not far from my home that I travel at approx 35mph. The pothole on the right pavement edge causes it when I clip it. To get it to stop I can accelerate and it seems to work, or sometimes I slow down and it will stop it. I never have had to completely pull over.

The tires are brand new and have a cold psi rating of 65psi. I believe they are sitting at 35psi.

We really LOVE this Jeep and want to see it come out in our favor...

I doubt your lift has much to do with this. Find a good alignment shop that checks steering components every day. A "four wheel drive shop" may or may not have competent steering mechanics.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Its a 2018 with 27,600 miles. Not sure when and for how long it had the lift and 35s. CarFax shows it was a lease vehicle (so I assume stock) for the first 5K. Then it was with a second owner from 5-27,600 when I bought it.

Since I posted.. I had it at a shop and they went all over the thing. They balanced the tires, did and alignment, and checked all of the hardware. The tech seems to think the Clayton lift was designed more for off-road than on-road and the flex of the lift would cause it. Other than that.. he is stumped. I am not to sure I buy that excuse since the remedy was to install a new lift more conducive to on-road use. hmmm

As far as triggers... I know of a spot on a road not far from my home that I travel at approx 35mph. The pothole on the right pavement edge causes it when I clip it. To get it to stop I can accelerate and it seems to work, or sometimes I slow down and it will stop it. I never have had to completely pull over.

The tires are brand new and have a cold psi rating of 65psi. I believe they are sitting at 35psi.

We really LOVE this Jeep and want to see it come out in our favor...

It's a machine. There is something loose. It can be fixed.

I'd recommend you print the list I posted above and take it to another front end shop.

Tire pressures and steering dampers can hide or change when shimmy/DW show up. But the cause is still a lack of stiffness/tightness in the steering system. A steering system in a JL that is in good condition can be driven without a steering damper.

The trackbar is suspension component that also serves a steering system function by keeping the axle from moving laterally when there is a steering input or the road irregularities put lateral forces on the axle.

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