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Death Wobble 2020 JL Sahara - Gonna be a gong show I can tell...

Caveman044

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Loose track bar, bad ball joints, and shot steering stabilizer are common causes of DW. And that DW in your video is nothing compared to what my old built xj would do. Obviously, no DW is acceptable.
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McGilli

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What's frustrating now is that I took it out again tonight - ok for the most part....

On the highway at 65mph/110kmh and up ahead there was a pothole on the drivers side coming at me. Perfect. Hit potholes all the time.

SO I lined it up - and went over it with the driver's side wheels.

Instantly I feel the wobble - but by the time I count to 2 - it has subsided and is gone while still at the same speed.

So - ok, the parts are doing their job now...

But...

I'm in my head now...

In the last year was that initial wobble always there and I never paid attention since it went away in a few seconds?

Am I just hyper-sensitive now having experienced when it doesn't subside?

Or is even the wobble for a few seconds not like before and a sign of the issue still being there somewhat?

Ughh.. frustrating...

Just talking out loud to myself LOL
 

Caveman044

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What's frustrating now is that I took it out again tonight - ok for the most part....

On the highway at 65mph/110kmh and up ahead there was a pothole on the drivers side coming at me. Perfect. Hit potholes all the time.

SO I lined it up - and went over it with the driver's side wheels.

Instantly I feel the wobble - but by the time I count to 2 - it has subsided and is gone while still at the same speed.

So - ok, the parts are doing their job now...

But...

I'm in my head now...

In the last year was that initial wobble always there and I never paid attention since it went away in a few seconds?

Am I just hyper-sensitive now having experienced when it doesn't subside?

Or is even the wobble for a few seconds not like before and a sign of the issue still being there somewhat?

Ughh.. frustrating...

Just talking out loud to myself LOL
Have someone turn the wheel back and forth and get on the ground and take a look. Look for movement at the knuckle and tie rod ball joints, all parts of the track bar, drag link, pitman arm, and steering box. Or just take back to the shop that installed your lift and tell them they need to fix it.
 

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Hmmm...

The shop seems to have done its job. The death wobble is no longer happening. Most likely something was loose and the technician tightened it.

Why are you unhappy?
 

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McGilli

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The shop seems to have done its job. The death wobble is no longer happening. Most likely something was loose and the technician tightened it.

Why are you unhappy?
Haha no - I'm really happy that it's ok...

I think after reading so many threads on this forum where some guys could not get it fixed no matter what they tried - I was expecting the worst. A long, drawn out situation where part after part was going to be inspected or replaced, and instead it really does seem like a bolt was loose. Fixed in an hour.


And I'm just shell-shocked... After all the off-roading I've done - not being able to control the Jeep on a straight, flat road really messes with your head...


But yeah - I need to shake it off and just get back to enjoying the Jeep :rock:
 
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McGilli

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GONG SHOW PART 2

Well, I had my first chance to really take the Jeep out yesterday. It was fine for the first 2 hours - then worse than ever.

First, I was going around a wide corner on a forest road and the steering just... slipped? I'm turning left, wheel at 11 o;clock when suddenly the Jeep just starts going straight. I had to crank the wheel left to avoid going off the road and the dashboard lit up with every warning.

Now the alignment is off and wheel permanently at 11 o'clock.

Then I decide to come home. Death Wobble worse than before. Same speed it starts at but more violent.

I take it to shop this morning.

I show them this video which i recorded yesterday:



He says yes, that's what happens when you need a new steering gear TSB performed. I say, you just replaced it - again - 2 weeks ago and it doesn't fix it.

He says they will hoist it up and look but at this point he doesn't know what to do other than another steering gear.
 
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McGilli

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The dealer has says they have identified the problem.

They say it's the left control arm, where it connects to the body the bushing has some play in it so it cannot be tightened fully. As this is an aftermarket part, they cannot warranty it.

I asked for a written report that I can show the shop who installed my suspension and was provided this:

Jeep Wrangler JL Death Wobble 2020 JL Sahara - Gonna be a gong show I can tell... IMG_2173


What's frustrating is they say they can't replicate the issue - when I am able to do it without fail every single time...

You see the tech mentions a STAR case - the first one is the Steering TSB, but what is the 2nd one he says that doesn't count because my manufacture date falls outside of it?

Regardless, the Off-road shop says they will warranty the control arm.

Hoping this is the end!
 

gato

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(read what you wrote) It sounds like your drag link adjustment was not tightened properly, that is why your steering wheel went off-center. When that happens (past about 10 degrees) you get the stability control warnings on dash.

Since they obviously had to remove the draglink to replace the steering box, that is prob what happened. And a loose drag link can cause death wobble.

I think you need to make sure everything is torqued correctly before you start replacing parts.

Also, worn and loose LCAs would cause clunking noises when accelerating/decelerating briskily. Turn down the music and listen :)
 

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Jeff2018

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Hey Everyone,

It probably goes without saying; but, whenever suspension parts such as control arms and track bars are removed and reinstalled they should be torqued to spec in ride height... not on a frame lift or jack stands/floor jacks.

Jeff
 
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McGilli

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Since they obviously had to remove the draglink to replace the steering box, that is prob what happened. And a loose drag link can cause death wobble.

I think you need to make sure everything is torqued correctly before you start replacing parts.

Also, worn and loose LCAs would cause clunking noises when accelerating/decelerating briskily. Turn down the music and listen :)
Thanks for the post. It's frustrating that the dealer puts in a new steering gear - then - the alignment goes out and they say well that's because of the death wobble - which is caused by aftermarket parts - so we will not do an alignment for you now.

appreciate the post

I'm kind of willing to even pay out of pocket to the aftermarket shop to just do all the work as needed (if there's anything besides the LCA) just because I honestly trust them more than the dealer at this point.
 

JimLee

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The dealer has says they have identified the problem.

They say it's the left control arm, where it connects to the body the bushing has some play in it so it cannot be tightened fully. As this is an aftermarket part, they cannot warranty it.

I asked for a written report that I can show the shop who installed my suspension and was provided this:

Jeep Wrangler JL Death Wobble 2020 JL Sahara - Gonna be a gong show I can tell... IMG_2173


What's frustrating is they say they can't replicate the issue - when I am able to do it without fail every single time...

You see the tech mentions a STAR case - the first one is the Steering TSB, but what is the 2nd one he says that doesn't count because my manufacture date falls outside of it?

Regardless, the Off-road shop says they will warranty the control arm.

Hoping this is the end!
"Check you tube", just fucking wow...
 

db_racer

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stock trackbar still?

I had bumpsteer/shimmy on my 100% stock unlifted 2020 JLU Sahara that started out of the blue at around 10000 km. Nothing as bad as your videos but enough to be annoying and to make me super vigilant about avoiding rough spots on roads.

My process to resolve:
1) At around 6000km Go to dealer and complain about general slight vibrations at hwy speeds, shimmy on bumps and steering wander from day one. Dealer replaced steering box with new steel box. Wander fixed and steering much improved.. really good now actually. Dealer rebalanced tires. Vibration at high speeds reduced but still there. Bump steer/ shimmy persists. Really annoying as was fine for the first 10000km

2) Go in for first oil change and mentioned vibration and excess bumpsteer/shimmy. Dealer rebalances tire and cycles steer stabilizer off vehicle to remove possible air in the shock. No improvement to slight vibration or excess bumpsteer/shimmy. Losing confidence at this point.

3) Thinking factory rims or tires were out of round or something so invested in some 33" Gladiator rubicon take off wheels and tires I had my eye on(wildpeak all terrain). Wanted the wheels and tires anyways. No change , issues persist with new wheels tires. Issue actually abit worse with the heavier tires.

4) Roadforce balance the new rubicon wheels and tires out of pocket at an independent tire center. Issues persist. They say the tires where off abit but are perfectly balanced with no runout.

5) Upgrade steering stabilizer to fox ifp aftermarket installed. No improvement whatsoever. Looks cool so though so :) . Checked factory stabilizer after removing it and seems fine cycling it by hand ...though fox one is definitely stiffer requiring more effort in comparison.

6) Set up my iphone on a small tripod and make videos of all the common sore spots to check for weird play... drag link ends, trackbar ends, steering box, ball joints, etc while cycling steering left and right repeatedly looking for excess play. Everything looks fine and basically new with nothing obvious off. Shocks look fine with no obvious leaks. While down there I loosen and retorque both ends of factory track bar to 120 ft lbs. No change, bumpsteer/shimmy continue. Scratching my head here.

7) Watch all the wobble videos on youtube and most point to trackbar. Purchase a new Rancho HD adjustable trackbar out of pocket and set to factory length. Much beefier the factory bar. Factory bar seemed fine with no obvious damage. Bushings all looked fine.

BINGO. New trackbar completely eliminated the bumpsteer and shimmy on bumps. Drives like normal again.... been fine for past 5000km since changing it.

Still confused on why new trackbar resolved the issue as all the factory parts looked fine. This is on a stock unmodified JLU with no lift or anything.

Trackbars are relatively cheap and easy to install on ones own. Took me about an hour taking my time. May be worth a shot.
 
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McGilli

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stock trackbar still?

I had bumpsteer/shimmy on my 100% stock unlifted 2020 JLU Sahara that started out of the blue at around 10000 km. Nothing as bad as your videos but enough to be annoying and to make me super vigilant about avoiding rough spots on roads.

My process to resolve:
1) At around 6000km Go to dealer and complain about general slight vibrations at hwy speeds, shimmy on bumps and steering wander from day one. Dealer replaced steering box with new steel box. Wander fixed and steering much improved.. really good now actually. Dealer rebalanced tires. Vibration at high speeds reduced but still there. Bump steer/ shimmy persists. Really annoying as was fine for the first 10000km

2) Go in for first oil change and mentioned vibration and excess bumpsteer/shimmy. Dealer rebalances tire and cycles steer stabilizer off vehicle to remove possible air in the shock. No improvement to slight vibration or excess bumpsteer/shimmy. Losing confidence at this point.

3) Thinking factory rims or tires were out of round or something so invested in some 33" Gladiator rubicon take off wheels and tires I had my eye on(wildpeak all terrain). Wanted the wheels and tires anyways. No change , issues persist with new wheels tires. Issue actually abit worse with the heavier tires.

4) Roadforce balance the new rubicon wheels and tires out of pocket at an independent tire center. Issues persist. They say the tires where off abit but are perfectly balanced with no runout.

5) Upgrade steering stabilizer to fox ifp aftermarket installed. No improvement whatsoever. Looks cool so though so :) . Checked factory stabilizer after removing it and seems fine cycling it by hand ...though fox one is definitely stiffer requiring more effort in comparison.

6) Set up my iphone on a small tripod and make videos of all the common sore spots to check for weird play... drag link ends, trackbar ends, steering box, ball joints, etc while cycling steering left and right repeatedly looking for excess play. Everything looks fine and basically new with nothing obvious off. Shocks look fine with no obvious leaks. While down there I loosen and retorque both ends of factory track bar to 120 ft lbs. No change, bumpsteer/shimmy continue. Scratching my head here.

7) Watch all the wobble videos on youtube and most point to trackbar. Purchase a new Rancho HD adjustable trackbar out of pocket and set to factory length. Much beefier the factory bar. Factory bar seemed fine with no obvious damage. Bushings all looked fine.

BINGO. New trackbar completely eliminated the bumpsteer and shimmy on bumps. Drives like normal again.... been fine for past 5000km since changing it.

Still confused on why new trackbar resolved the issue as all the factory parts looked fine. This is on a stock unmodified JLU with no lift or anything.

Trackbars are relatively cheap and easy to install on ones own. Took me about an hour taking my time. May be worth a shot.
Fantastic - thank you for taking the time top post this.

Yes stock trackbar.

Honestly this goes well with my thinking... I've actually been thinking of getting ride of the stock parts and just going all aftermarket so that I can get away from the dealer.

And what you mentioned about the stabilizer LOL I've been looking at other Jeeps too and thinking I wouldn't mind mine looking a little more custom... and cooler IMO

Thanks again you've given me good stuff to re-read and dig into :like:
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