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Dealership refuses to repair vehicle -- aftermarket lights connected to auxiliary switch

Sta Nisia

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But corporate fraud is something else: the State AG is BIG on going after that for three reasons:
No offense but where are you getting "corporate fraud" for a totally standard and vetted paragraph that states the owner may be responsible for a $125 diagnostic fee? What brand of car dealers does not do this? They ALL DO.

If it is determined to be under warranty and not affected with a problematic aftermarket part or problematic install, then the fee is not going to be applied.

Car electronics can throw codes left and right, and there are a lot, a while lot of junk third party electronics, many leds without required impedance, corners cut on contact matinal leading to worsening viscous circle of corrosion, heat, more corrosion more heat.

The dealer is not saying the aftermarket lights installed in this situation are causing the problem, but merely using boilderplate car repair graph, providing informed consent to customer, saying they will need to be reimbursed for costs if they do turn out to be outside of warranty.
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Let's pose a question Jeep Cares may be able to help us with. If you have the manufacturer install AUX switches are you allowed to hook anything up to them? Or if you use them does that subject you to an up front fee to test them?

I get it that if I break something I am on the hook in the end, however, I thought I was still innocent until proven guilty. If the dealership has a problem getting money from the manufacturer that really isn't my problem.
Innocent until proven guilty is not applicable in contract law. preponderance is and probative burdens are. It is FCA and the dealership that would have to show (not beyond reasonable doubt, but preponderance, as in 51%) that what you hooked up caused the damage. You do not have to show your installed electric component did not cause the damage. so that is the good news. They are putting in the language required: If a problem is covered by warranty you are ok, if not you have to pay us for the time to figure it out."

But there are many cases where what you hook up to Aux switches or what you may swap out in an electrical system can cause minor or major damage, and also require a fair amount of expertise to figure out. In which case the warrantor can legally decline it and in which case the diagnosis costs would correctly be on the customer.

There is some high quality, acceptable quality aftermarket stuff out there, and a lot of total junk esp when it comes to aux led lights. There isn't anyone here who knows about electronic components who will say it is not possible to cause codes to be thrown or damage to the half dozen computers/control units in modern cars by by certain bad aftermarket equipment or installs
 

Whaler27

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No offense but where are you getting "corporate fraud" for a totally standard and vetted paragraph that states the owner may be responsible for a $125 diagnostic fee? What brand of car dealers does not do this? They ALL DO.

If it is determined to be under warranty and not affected with a problematic aftermarket part or problematic install, then the fee is not going to be applied.

Car electronics can throw codes left and right, and there are a lot, a while lot of junk third party electronics, many leds without required impedance, corners cut on contact matinal leading to worsening viscous circle of corrosion, heat, more corrosion more heat.

The dealer is not saying the aftermarket lights installed in this situation are causing the problem, but merely using boilerplate car repair graph, providing informed consent to customer, saying they will need to be reimbursed for costs if they do turn out to be outside of warranty.
What the OP described doesn't fit any of the listed exemptions in the bumper to bumper factory warranty.

The accessory switches are designed for the use the OP put them to. Most importantly, the dedicated circuits are easy to isolate. The accessory would be easy to disconnect too. I could to either of those things in under ten minutes with the small tool box I carry in my Jeep. Our local dealers aren't angels, but even the ones I bitch most about can invest ten or fifteen minutes diagnosing a simple problem on a new $50,000 vehicle -- and they do.

My warranty documentation doesn't include any "standard" language providing for a $125 up-front, potentially refundable, fee to diagnose whether a vehicle malfunction is covered by the factory's bumper-to-bumper warranty. I just pulled my most recent Jeep service order for our Grand Cherokee, and it doesn't include any such language either -- and that vehicle is out of warranty.

As I said earlier, in more than four decades of buying new cars, I have never been threatened with such a fee, orally or in writing, to diagnose a repair under the factory bumper to bumper warranty. Never. Ever.

I'm not sure who "vetted" the language or policy you're referring to, or where it's commonly applied. Perhaps it's standard in your state and others. Maybe it's never been challenged there? Until we bought our raptor in Maine in 2018, I'd only purchased vehicles in Oregon and Colorado, and the Colorado purchase was 43 years ago, so my experience is admittedly limited to this small area, but I have never seen the "standard" "vetted" "boilerplate" language you're talking about.

Of course I'd never heard of an $800 "doc fee" either, until one of the guys on this site reported that as standard in his area.

The potential fraud would be the conning, bullying, or deceiving people into believing they are required to pay for a service which is in fact fully covered by the warranty which was part of their purchase. As others have recounted in many threads on this site and others, dealers have often used owner modifications as an excuse to avoid providing warranty repairs that have absolutely nothing to do with the customer's modifications. (Hence the need for the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act... dealers and manufacturers were routinely charging fees for work that should have been fully covered by the warranty. Do you think the Act, passed it the 1970s, ended the customer-screwing practice of charging customers for warranty repairs? )

I know some principled people in the car business, but car sales continues to be a major focus of consumer protection activity for good reason.
 
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sbrimer

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I think the biggest problem I have with this, is their complete lack of knowledge, lack of understanding and lack of desire to even offer a logical explanation to their reasoning and answers. The first reason was because I had a winch installed on an after market bumper. The winch is installed on a Mopar steel OEM bumper group installed when assembled, with the end caps removed. He argued that Mopar didn't make bumper that would "house" a winch. I finally convinced him otherwise.

Not to mention they had zero idea and could not grasp the concept of the aux switches and could not explain their purpose, but instead stayed with the "it's not an OEM part, no matter what" position.

Then the whole your Jeep only has 1 battery and now we have put in a extra large one for you and your future accessories answer; as if they are doing me a favor. This whole insanity way of thinking and the same people want me to pay $125.00 to diagnose a problem when they don't even know, or care to know their own product. How in the hell can they even diagnose a problem or system, if they have no idea how the system even functions!?

Had I paid the $125.00, no matter the end result, I guarantee you the problem would have somehow been related to an "outside of the warranty issue because of the non OEM part....but we will help you out and only charge you the $125.00. We will take care of the rest."

I can 100% see that something like that happening.

I'm just fortunate enough that I knew what I was talking about; the next person, or the one before me, probably didn't.
 
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sbrimer

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Well, I did response from Jeep Cares. It appears that the diagnostic fee is "the first step is diagnosingmy vehicle concerns and the payment MAY be returned to me." I guess now, warranty or not, a diagnostic fee is "normal" for determing warranty work. I don't get it.



Jeep Cares:

Good morning, Scott and thanks for reaching out to our team. With the VIN you provided, I was able to locate a previous case for this same concern (78084852) although it seemed to be documented as a dealer complaint, I would like to provide some more information. Although a diagnostic fee isn't ideal, it is the necessary payment for the first step to diagnosing your vehicles concerns. The dealer technician is correct that you may get the payment back afterward, but there are no guarantees with that.

With this in mind, although our team cannot waive a diagnostic fee, should you choose to proceed with repairs, we can assign a case agent to work with you and the dealer during the process. Please let me know if you're interested and I can get create that right away.


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Whaler27

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Sadly, “Jeep Cares” is just an FCA “rope-a-dope” technique designed to help the frustrated customer punch himself out to exhaustion... The fact is, most folks will eventually become discouraged, give up, and pay. It’s less work than fighting for the service we’re entitled to.

I’m in my 10th month of “processing and verification” to get a $3,300 settlement check from FCA. The process was supposed to be simple and straightforward, and it seemed simple enough. To collect under the FCA Ecodiesel settlement purchasers were directed to send a handful of documents to FCA by mail or email. I went down the short list of documents, copied every one, in color, including my driver’s license, and sent them to the provided address by certified mail in March of 2020.

After 8 weeks with no response I scanned and sent the same package electronically. In July I finally got a response telling me that the registration form I sent them was expired and they required a copy of current registration. First, the registration I sent them was current when I filed the claim, but they sat on the claim for 15 weeks until the registration expired... Next, the claim is valid even if I choose to use the vehicle only as a ranch truck, so current registration should be irrelevant, but I resent current registration anyway. Twice more, in fact. Again, no response for weeks, so I called in.

“Sheneequa” informed me that my packet was incomplete - that I still needed a copy of my “proof of ownership”. I asked for examples of what would suffice for that and she said, “A copy of your title, purchase order, and current registration”. I said, “I have provided all of that at least three times. The copy of the title has been sent four times; once by certified mail and three times electronically”. She put me on hold for over six minutes. When she came back she said, “Sir I see you have provided those documents”. I asked, “Now what?” Sheneequa said, “You are in the verification process and will move on to the next step”. I asked, “what is the next step?” After a long pause she said, “Payment”. That was nine weeks ago. Still nothing.

My brother went through the same sort of BS, with documents repeatedly being lost — even when everything is documented by VIN AND claim number. Then his claim was derailed because it was missing "documentation from the co-owner". He had to prove there was no co-owner because the person processing his claim thought his first and last name were actually two last names of co-owners. I'm not kidding. He had to call in and point the woman on the phone to his driver's license which listed his first and last name. I'm not kidding. We're not talking about a complex file of lengthy legal documents. We're talking about a file that consists of eight pages including their processing form. My brother's name was listed on the claim form, the purchase paperwork, the title, the registration and, of course, his driver's license, but they claimed to be confused.

Nobody with a pulse could be that stupid. And no organization or group of individuals could possibly be THAT persistently incompetent. FCA has perfected the art of foot-dragging and other techniques for exhausting frustrated customers. That’s how Jeep rolls these days.
 
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sbrimer

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One of my favorite quotes.....

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
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