Sponsored

Dealers now demanding a new $170 contract with tire size flash!

kogar

Well-Known Member
First Name
JD
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Threads
34
Messages
205
Reaction score
295
Location
Cedar Park, TX
Vehicle(s)
JLUR EcoDiesel
Vehicle Showcase
2
What’s the drill? I have never had a vehicle with a lifetime warranty, so this is new to me. After the warranty ends most people will do what ever they want to a vehicle, but while under warranty you need to be very careful. Most people need the manufacturer to continue to stand behind their product.
Erase the flash work (system reset) before taking it to dealer. Just redo settings when you pick it up again.

You’ll have more issues with suspension or emission mods anyway if you pick a dealer that wants to get picky.
Sponsored

 

Tech Tim

Well-Known Member
Summit Sponsor (Level 3)
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Threads
14
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
4,935
Location
Poulsbo, WA
Vehicle(s)
4x4 of all kinds
Occupation
Part of the Northridge4x4 team
The Magnussen-Moss act is quite clear. If you use an aftermarket part, they cannot refuse the warranty unless they can prove the modification caused the problem. So not sure how any car company is getting around that.

I had to go toe-to-toe with a couple dealers back when I worked at ARB and they were all big and corporate tough until I mentioned the Magnussen-Moss act. Both times the dealers backed down and stood behind the warranty for the customer.


From the Superchips site:

WILL TUNING VOID MY WARRANTY?


Many of our customers ask, “Will your product void my vehicle’s manufacturer’s warranty?” Superchips is committed to providing quality products that are safe to use. Our products do not cause damage to a vehicle when used as intended in accordance with the User Manual and should not void your vehicle’s manufacturer’s warranty. However, the reality is that many dealerships have been known to improperly void warranties on vehicles that use aftermarket products as a matter of policy. This applies in particular to those aftermarket products that produce horsepower, such as performance enhancement “chips,” modified intake manifolds, or aftermarket exhaust systems, regardless of product brand.

Consumers of aftermarket products are protected by the Federal Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. The Act provides that if something breaks on your vehicle and you take it in for warranty repair, the dealer must honor your warranty unless whatever modifications you have added to your vehicle directly caused the problem in question. This is where Superchips’ industry-exclusive powertrain warranty and best-in-class service comes into play. You’ve made an investment in our product and we have invested in providing superior customer service.

In order to understand your rights under the Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, please see below excerpt. A full transcript of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act can be located here.

When accessorizing your vehicle with aftermarket parts, your warranty claim cannot be automatically denied, nor can your warranty be voided, if you install non-OEM parts in your vehicle. The burden is on the dealer to prove the aftermarket parts caused the failure. For example, if your windshield wiper motors fail, your vehicle’s warranty claim can’t be denied because you installed aftermarket performance programmer, tuner, chip, etc. Similarly, if a wheel bearing fails or a fan belt snaps and you have an aftermarket exhaust installed, the dealership would have to prove the exhaust system caused the bearing failure or the belt to snap in order to deny a warranty claim. In these types of scenarios, the dealership should have no reason to deny your claims.

In addition to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, you also have SEMA (Specialty Equipment Market Association) working to protect your rights. Because SEMA represents U.S. aftermarket wholesalers, retailers, distributors and manufacturers, they often keep car manufacturers in check by supporting legislation that prevents dealership service providers from denying warranty coverage. This means dealerships have become less stringent when it comes to aftermarket parts that modify performance or suspension.

Bottom line: Superchips has not become the world’s best-selling performance programmer by leaving our customers high and dry. We deliver a safe, smart power backed with the industry-leading customer support. Shop with assurance knowing Superchips does the right thing.


BTW- Our first order of JL Superchips Flashcals shows up here tomorrow (Thursday May 9th), who wants one? ;):)
 

bilash31

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
397
Reaction score
395
Location
PA
Vehicle(s)
'14 JKU, '18 GC
image.jpg
In the middle of the flash they need to send for a code from FCA to finish. $305 total.
Just my $0.02. I would reach out to FCA and make sure that $175 isn’t supposed to include the dealer calibration cost. This is all new and I wouldn’t be surprised to find this is the case and your dealer didn’t know and effectively double charged you. Think about it, YOU are paying $175 for a contract that gives/says what? As others said, $300 is ridiculous for that work. Contact FCA is my advice.
 

LocoPirate

Member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
May 8, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
17
Reaction score
46
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JL
My Jeep came with the 35s dealer installed. After I purchased I realized Speedo, MPG, distance was off by 10%. Took the Jeep in and 30 min later was back on the road no $$ out of pocket. I guess I lucked out on that one.
 

W5MQS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Threads
19
Messages
588
Reaction score
617
Location
Temple, Texas
Vehicle(s)
2018 Granite Wrangler Rubicon JLU; 2020 Mercedes GLB 250; 2013 Red Ford F-150 4x4
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Interventional Cardiology
At the dealership now getting my rubicon flashed for the new 35” tires I installed. I was told $130 to flash by 2 different dealerships. Made an appointment and here for the flash. After waiting an hour they show me a new contract from FCA that I have to sign before they will flash it. The cost of this one time contract is $170 as of 5/8/2018. So, now $300 for the flash to keep all your warranties intact.:angry: Crazy FCA! Money, Money, Money. Anyone else running into this new FCA bulletin?
Correction $175
Sounds like they are charging you a labor charge on top of the cost to flash the computer. I paid $125 for mine but had to go to 3 different dealerships before I found one that I had confidence in their abilities. None of the others sounded like they knew what they were talking about. One dealership told me that I had to purchase a part that had to be ordered and that part was $225 and then the flash which was $125. I told them they were not correct and they just looked at me.
 

Sponsored

JASPER

Well-Known Member
First Name
Wayolife Sucks
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Threads
16
Messages
458
Reaction score
229
Location
Tucson
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Rubicon and 2014 JK 2dr
The Magnussen-Moss act is quite clear. If you use an aftermarket part, they cannot refuse the warranty unless they can prove the modification caused the problem. So not sure how any car company is getting around that.

I had to go toe-to-toe with a couple dealers back when I worked at ARB and they were all big and corporate tough until I mentioned the Magnussen-Moss act. Both times the dealers backed down and stood behind the warranty for the customer.


From the Superchips site:





BTW- Our first order of JL Superchips Flashcals shows up here tomorrow (Thursday May 9th), who wants one? ;):)
Why not have driving modes??
 

swozey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Threads
18
Messages
675
Reaction score
610
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR
Vehicle Showcase
1
I have no knowledge of this on Jeep or any FCA vehicles. However I do know for that Audi and Nissan have both denied warranty claims related to non-dealership flash tuning. More accurately, the vehicle is flagged and warranty work may potentially be denied based on whether the unauthorized modification could have affected the issue that caused it to require warranty service. It is not an "automatically voided warranty." They can see if the flash was done through their dealership network or elsewhere.

VW/Audi has a "blacklist" (Goolge "Audi TD1") that your vehicle may end up on if it is detected that any entity other than Audi USA has flashed the vehicle. I cannot confirm if they still do it every time, but at one point they were checking vehicles every time they were brought in for service, warranty work or not. If you have a flashed engine tune and have a powertrain failure you are SOL. If you have a flashed engine tune and have bad frame welds, or paint issues, you are likely to be OK because it is completely unrelated. Since flash tuning accessed the electrical system, it is likely that any electrical issue would be rejected for a warranty claim.

The Nissan GTR used to have a notoriously restrictive warranty. They would deny warranty service if an owner denied them access to black box data. If they accessed said data and found any non Nissan tampering, you were SOL. I only had one briefly and never had to deal with that personally but the subsequent owner did.

TLDR; if you are very concerned with preservation of warranty, a flash may not be the way to go. However, YMMV. I can't say from experience whether Jeep/FCA is as restrictive as other makes.
Big difference here though. I guarantee you all of the programmers on turbo cars (Audis, TDis) also have options to control the wastegate/boost, etc. I've run them on BMWs. I always knew if they found out that I'd raised my boost I'd potentially void my warranty work if any of the turbo parts failed; but only specifically on the parts the programmer affected.

The Jeep tuners are the first programmers I've ever seen that don't change anything like the pedal rates or anything like that. I haven't seen any actual engine "modifications" on any of these so far.

Example of my BMW tuner and lots of 'breaky' stuff, including launch control, etc; http://burgertuning.com/jb4_pnp_BMW_performance_tuner.html

"In addition to several performance maps which can be selected "on the fly" right from the drivers seat the JB4 includes a 100% stock bypass map, a valet mode, ethanol fuel (E85) support, progressive water/methanol injection support, racing fuel map, an auto tuning map that adjusts the JB4 mapping to your current climate, octane, vehicle condition, and modifications continuously, and for those interested an rpm by rpm user adjustable map. Other features include optional in dash gauges for boost and other engine parameters, a programmable shift light, on the fly adjustable torque limiting to aid with launches at the track, an optional 2STEP rev limiter & no lift shifting for manual transmission cars, an optional speed delimiter, and much more."
 

Chocolate Thunder

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Threads
214
Messages
5,113
Reaction score
9,576
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2019 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
Build Thread
Link
Big difference here though. I guarantee you all of the programmers on turbo cars (Audis, TDis) also have options to control the wastegate/boost, etc. I've run them on BMWs. I always knew if they found out that I'd raised my boost I'd potentially void my warranty work if any of the turbo parts failed; but only specifically on the parts the programmer affected.

The Jeep tuners are the first programmers I've ever seen that don't change anything like the pedal rates or anything like that. I haven't seen any actual engine "modifications" on any of these so far.

Example of my BMW tuner and lots of 'breaky' stuff, including launch control, etc; http://burgertuning.com/jb4_pnp_BMW_performance_tuner.html

"In addition to several performance maps which can be selected "on the fly" right from the drivers seat the JB4 includes a 100% stock bypass map, a valet mode, ethanol fuel (E85) support, progressive water/methanol injection support, racing fuel map, an auto tuning map that adjusts the JB4 mapping to your current climate, octane, vehicle condition, and modifications continuously, and for those interested an rpm by rpm user adjustable map. Other features include optional in dash gauges for boost and other engine parameters, a programmable shift light, on the fly adjustable torque limiting to aid with launches at the track, an optional 2STEP rev limiter & no lift shifting for manual transmission cars, an optional speed delimiter, and much more."
I understand that in a practical sense what you’re saying is definitely true. Changing a fog light setting is not nearly the same and cranking an extra 4 psi of boost pressure. However from a standpoint of paying for a repair or making you pay for it yourself, a manufacturer isn’t going to differentiate. This has been proven over and over. If you tampered with it, it’s your fault and your problem now.

Also, consider the upcoming 2.0t that makes more power in other FCA vehicles than in the Wrangler. What are the chances that tuning device manufacturers aren’t going to take the opportunity to sell many more units by giving users the ability to turn 260 hp into 276 or 295? I think zero chance.

At any rate, I guess we will see once it happens. I’m not anti tuner by any means. I will buy and use a tuner but I’ll do so knowing full well that there may possibly be warranty consequences down the road. I don’t look down my nose at owners who are conscious and don’t want to take the chance. It’s not like these vehicles are rock solid bastions or build quality so their way warranty concern isn’t unfounded.
 

BWWJL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Threads
22
Messages
801
Reaction score
592
Location
Chicago Area
Vehicle(s)
18 JLU Sport S
Vehicle Showcase
1
Seems like the $130 should be negotiated in when you buy your JL.
 

W5MQS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Threads
19
Messages
588
Reaction score
617
Location
Temple, Texas
Vehicle(s)
2018 Granite Wrangler Rubicon JLU; 2020 Mercedes GLB 250; 2013 Red Ford F-150 4x4
Build Thread
Link
Occupation
Interventional Cardiology
Seems like the $130 should be negotiated in when you buy your JL.
I like that idea...or at least offer it as an "option".
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
BBDOC

BBDOC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Victor
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Threads
13
Messages
217
Reaction score
219
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
BMW 5-Series, Honda Civic, Honda Minivan
Spoke to FCA reps today. As of 5/8/2018 if you don’t have the warranty/paper signed and paid for you may have issues with warranty later. The good news is once signed and paid for you can change tire sizes as many times as you want. This is only a one time deal. They also told me that there is a counter and they will know if the computer has been altered. If they can show that this is related to any problems (especially electrical) you may be denied warranty care.
Good luck everyone. :like:
 

offcamber

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Bob
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Threads
36
Messages
1,073
Reaction score
1,438
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicle(s)
2012 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 2014 Grand Cherokee Limited Ecodiesel
Spoke to FCA reps today. As of 5/8/2018 if you don’t have the warranty/paper signed and paid for you may have issues with warranty later. The good news is once signed and paid for you can change tire sizes as many times as you want. This is only a one time deal. They also told me that there is a counter and they will know if the computer has been altered. If they can show that this is related to any problems (especially electrical) you may be denied warranty care.
Good luck everyone. :like:
If they tried to tell me that my warranty was invalid because I updated my computer myself rather than pay them, I'd beat them to within an inch of their lives.
 

Archer60

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
39
Reaction score
26
Location
Montana/Nevada
Vehicle(s)
2016 Cherokee Trailhawk, 2018 JLUR
Spoke to FCA reps today. As of 5/8/2018 if you don’t have the warranty/paper signed and paid for you may have issues with warranty later. The good news is once signed and paid for you can change tire sizes as many times as you want. This is only a one time deal. They also told me that there is a counter and they will know if the computer has been altered. If they can show that this is related to any problems (especially electrical) you may be denied warranty care.
Good luck everyone. :like:
What is the 'warranty/paper' that you are being asked to sign?
 
OP
OP
BBDOC

BBDOC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Victor
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Threads
13
Messages
217
Reaction score
219
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
BMW 5-Series, Honda Civic, Honda Minivan
8A375423-CE8E-4995-9F89-95720DD517E2.jpeg
:jk:
Sponsored

 

Sponsored

TopLift Pros
 
Sponsored
Top