Dealers getting caught and fined. Anyone hear of this before?

[Hearhear]

Dealerships are there to make money, bottom line. And why shouldn’t they try? They have a lot of overhead to pay for- building maintenance, lot maintenance, utilities, advertising, office/appointment scheduling staff, finance staff, sales managers, parts department staff, parts inventory, shop mechanics, liability insurance, lease payment if they don’t own the land the dealership is on, etc..etc… It’s very expensive to own and run a full blown car dealership. People act like dealerships have no expenses. That’s just not true.

That said, for better deals go to high volume dealerships or smaller family owned dealerships that are established with a good reputation and have been in business a while. I did the latter and had a really good buying experience.

If you go to a medium or small volume dealership, including ones that change ownership too much, prepare to get squeezed as much as possible because they need the money.

Sponsored

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

So many comments seem tocompletely ignore the actual issue at hand - they are doing illegal things to make more money. Please state a succinct defense of breaking consumer trade law in order to make a larger profit. Please don’t restate that you’re stupid if you pay more because you should know better. That’s a circular argument. It doesn’t make their actions legal. And isn’t that’s how cheating usually works? It’s done in a way that’s deceptive so that the person being cheated doesn’t know it’s happening to them?

Make money. Make profit. Lots of it if you can. Just don’t break the laws to do it. It’s really simple, not complicated at all.

Here’s a novel thought these days: maybe it’s not all about you and what you’d do and how smart you think you are. Maybe there’s others who need protection from predatory practices because they’re not you. That doesn’t mean that it’s legal to cheat them because they’re not as smart or savvy as you are. That’s not 100% on them. That’s 100% on the people breaking the law to cheat them. Old people are generally not as strong as I am. Still illegal for me to punch them in the face and take their money last time I checked. And if I do it, that’s on me, not on them for being frail.

 

[RandyMarion CDJR]

Just wondering if this is going to start getting more press and public pressure.

Ive been an advocate for direct to customer sales for all manufacturers since Tesla started doing it. I do believe we have an opportunity get rid of the dealership model as we switch over to BEVs. What do you all think? I can take the heat if you think getting rid of dealerships is wrong, I also invite some of the dealers and salespersons on this forum let me know what you think.

This was a recent conversation we had amongst a few at our dealer. Do we want it to happen? Heck no, this is our passion but that the same time there is a lot of speculation after this covid mess thats where the market will end up. Interested to read more into this thread.
Obvious advantages would be time efficiency and savings for the consumers. The main disadvantage is the loss of jobs but then one should also consider the competitive model dealers currently run off of too. Will the savings be consistent over time or would the lack of true competition amongst individual dealers cause the market to become stagnant in continually rising prices? ( prices seem to be doing this anyway with the competition, just a thought) This conversation has many facets you could entertain to come to a "right" conclusion on either side. As for us here at Randy Marion CDJR, we love our job and hope it continues to thrive but who really knows whats going to happen in the end.

 

[taysdad]

So many comments seem tocompletely ignore the actual issue at hand - they are doing illegal things to make more money. Please state a succinct defense of breaking consumer trade law in order to make a larger profit. Please don’t restate that you’re stupid if you pay more because you should know better. That’s a circular argument. It doesn’t make their actions legal. And isn’t that’s how cheating usually works? It’s done in a way that’s deceptive so that the person being cheated doesn’t know it’s happening to them?

Make money. Make profit. Lots of it if you can. Just don’t break the laws to do it. It’s really simple, not complicated at all.

Here’s a novel thought these days: maybe it’s not all about you and what you’d do and how smart you think you are. Maybe there’s others who need protection from predatory practices because they’re not you. That doesn’t mean that it’s legal to cheat them because they’re not as smart or savvy as you are. That’s not 100% on them. That’s 100% on the people breaking the law to cheat them. Old people are generally not as strong as I am. Still illegal for me to punch them in the face and take their money last time I checked. And if I do it, that’s on me, not on them for being frail.

Well said.

 

[Pinky Tuscadero]

@av8or
Do you have a synopsis of what those two talking heads in the video intended to discuss? I watched the first few minutes, but their ADD-like chattering didn't reveal any substantive content.

Agreed and after scanning 8 pages found nothing to brief this video
I'd rather listen to a time share presentation

 

[Strommen95]

So many comments seem tocompletely ignore the actual issue at hand - they are doing illegal things to make more money. Please state a succinct defense of breaking consumer trade law in order to make a larger profit. Please don’t restate that you’re stupid if you pay more because you should know better. That’s a circular argument. It doesn’t make their actions legal. And isn’t that’s how cheating usually works? It’s done in a way that’s deceptive so that the person being cheated doesn’t know it’s happening to them?

Make money. Make profit. Lots of it if you can. Just don’t break the laws to do it. It’s really simple, not complicated at all.

Here’s a novel thought these days: maybe it’s not all about you and what you’d do and how smart you think you are. Maybe there’s others who need protection from predatory practices because they’re not you. That doesn’t mean that it’s legal to cheat them because they’re not as smart or savvy as you are. That’s not 100% on them. That’s 100% on the people breaking the law to cheat them. Old people are generally not as strong as I am. Still illegal for me to punch them in the face and take their money last time I checked. And if I do it, that’s on me, not on them for being frail.

Dealers do plenty of unethical things but they're mostly within the law. There's nothing illegal about charging over or at MSRP, having extremely bloated finance add ons and "protection plans" or egregious labor rates in the service department. Finance/the service department in particular is where they make most of their profit. They will always be present in the papers signed, so it is legal. A marked up interest rate from the dealer isn't illegal, either. It's the price paid for not doing the work yourself with a bank. A convenience fee.

Your thief comparison is literally insane and helps absolve people of any responsibility in their own decision making. This mentality is a big reason why there's so many issues in our society. There shouldn't be any robberies but objectively there will always be bad or struggling people. If you walk around a bad neighborhood flashing an iPhone, jewelry or cash around hypothetically, your own bad choices helped lead to that robbery. Anybody walking in to a dealership should be doing their own due diligence. That doesn't mean a dealership should take advantage of a person, just like how nobody should get robbed, but personal responsibility still comes to play with anything in life. Privately or for business, people should be acutely aware almost nobody has their best interests in mind except themselves.

Anybody who's ever spent time selling a car, whether in the classifieds years ago, on craigslist, facebook, a forum, whatever, anybody who's spent time selling a car(s) knows how ridiculous many people are. Not the occasional buyer, many buyers. Bad behavior from dealerships is partially because of how ridiculous customers act. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Many Jeepers over the past few years sold their used Jeeps for above MSRP. Why has there never been a thread or single post about these sellers taking advantage of a bad situation for profit? "Rules for the, not for me." Consumers aren't much different than the shitty dealers.

 

[Titocval]

Your thief comparison is literally insane and helps absolve people of any responsibility in their own decision making. This mentality is a big reason why there's so many issues in our society. There shouldn't be any robberies but objectively there will always be bad or struggling people. If you walk around a bad neighborhood flashing an iPhone, jewelry or cash around hypothetically, your own bad choices helped lead to that robbery. Anybody walking in to a dealership should be doing their own due diligence. That doesn't mean a dealership should take advantage of a person, just like how nobody should get robbed, but personal responsibility still comes to play with anything in life. Privately or for business, people should be acutely aware almost nobody has their best interests in mind except themselves.

While I am a total proponent of personal responsibility and exercising caution in all situations, this sounds awful close to victim-blaming.

It's the attitude that "All dealers will try to cheat you; it's just what they do" that keeps them doing it. No consequences for poor behavior. It's your fault if you taken advantage of. Bah!

Keep calling out the dealerships who treat customers poorly. Keep sharing those who treat people right.

 

[aldo98229]

Thing is, dealers do this 24/7, so they get really good at it.

Individuals, on the other hand, buy a car once every what 3, 5, 7, 10 years...? So the dealer is going to have the upper hand in the vast majority of situations.

In car sales jargon, a naïve, inexperienced customer is called a “lay down.” This expression alone reveals tons about the dealer mindset. People get promoted to manager for their ability to make money, period; not for their fair treatment of customers.

I sold cars years ago. I grew sick and tired of the daily lying to customers and the backstabbing to each other. I left the job after a year.

If you have a brain and a sense of decency, there are much better ways to make a living.

 

[Strommen95]

While I am a total proponent of personal responsibility and exercising caution in all situations, this sounds awful close to victim-blaming.

It's the attitude that "All dealers will try to cheat you; it's just what they do" that keeps them doing it. No consequences for poor behavior. It's your fault if you taken advantage of. Bah!

Keep calling out the dealerships who treat customers poorly. Keep sharing those who treat people right.

Preying on emotions and making terms to make people feel better helps fuel the lack of responsibility that’s prevalent. If a person reads a paper and signs to it, they’re mostly a victim of their own choice. Don’t like it, too bad.

 

[GtX]

Thats a dangerous road to go down.
May as well get rid of ALL salespeople altogether and buy EVERYTHING on line via Amazon and the like.
How many jobs will be lost if we went that route?

They can join all the carriage drivers who lost their jobs when the automobile replaced the horse.

 

[Vinman]

They can join all the carriage drivers who lost their jobs when the automobile replaced the horse.

Those drivers are all dead now...

 

[GtX]

Those drivers are all dead now...

I like your plan .

 

[av8or]

This was a recent conversation we had amongst a few at our dealer. Do we want it to happen? Heck no, this is our passion but that the same time there is a lot of speculation after this covid mess thats where the market will end up. Interested to read more into this thread.
Obvious advantages would be time efficiency and savings for the consumers. The main disadvantage is the loss of jobs but then one should also consider the competitive model dealers currently run off of too. Will the savings be consistent over time or would the lack of true competition amongst individual dealers cause the market to become stagnant in continually rising prices? ( prices seem to be doing this anyway with the competition, just a thought) This conversation has many facets you could entertain to come to a "right" conclusion on either side. As for us here at Randy Marion CDJR, we love our job and hope it continues to thrive but who really knows whats going to happen in the end.

Thanks for jumping in here. I feel like it just doesn’t make sense anymore and it’s unfortunate for the employees. The reality is new ways of doing things come along all the time, but ignoring them, and trying to stay with ”the old way” just stifles progress. It seems eventually innovation wins and the Blockbusters have to go away.
Why cars and motorcycles? Should we have dealerships and dealer protection laws for gas and electric motorcycles? How about mopeds? And e bikes, e-scooters, what about regular scooters and skateboards? Maybe all transportation should be purchased ONLY at a dealership and not online. Seems kinda silly when you extrapolate it out a little ways doesn’t it.

 

[Overwatch]

I'm going to try and boil a point down to the bare minimum so it gets read, sorry if I make it too short. There is a theory called the "Milk Carton" ideal I learned thirty years ago. It really meant people want others to change to fit their idea of what's right, rather than see them for who they are. It doesn't make it right or legal but it's human nature. If you instead know a person will act a certain way you can adjust your thinking and act accordingly. Call it victim blaming, say it keeps bad actors preying on others, but its basic brain work.

TL:DR: Don't expect a dealer to change because it's the right thing to do, instead knowing they will act in their own self interest change how you deal with them.

 

[RandyMarion CDJR]

Thanks for jumping in here. I feel like it just doesn’t make sense anymore and it’s unfortunate for the employees. The reality is new ways of doing things come along all the time, but ignoring them, and trying to stay with ”the old way” just stifles progress. It seems eventually innovation wins and the Blockbusters have to go away.
Why cars and motorcycles? Should we have dealerships and dealer protection laws for gas and electric motorcycles? How about mopeds? And e bikes, e-scooters, what about regular scooters and skateboards? Maybe all transportation should be purchased ONLY at a dealership and not online. Seems kinda silly when you extrapolate it out a little ways doesn’t it.

I agree with you. I think the biggest consideration is lack of market competition personally. You know how it goes, you give a inch & they take a mile. Direct would eventually cost the same as it would at the dealer.
Either way only time will tell! I for one, like my job & say they keep it this way for a bit lol.

Sponsored