Damning quote on Bronco vs Wrangler

[Reldn]

I didn't test drive it, but, sat in one of the dealer demo units (4 door Badlands) before canceling my 2 door reservation and ordering my Jeep. I had noticed the same thing: The grab handles felt extremely flimsy, and even the dash itself felt kind of loose.

Sadly, as excited for the Bronco as I had been initially? Finally getting to see one in person and sit in it left me underwhelmed. I did like the MGV seats and rubberized flooring, however.

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[Odyssey USA]

Well that sounds promising lol.

‘21 has been a crap year so far. I’m glad I have my 7/19 build and late ‘20 built ‘21 Wranglers.

 

[rickinAZ]

While my JL is at the dealer getting the steering box TSB, I got a 2021 Nissan Kicks to drive around: cheap plastics everywhere, rubber-band transmission, noisy engine, Quasimodo-inspired ergonomics... Despite its small dimensions, it is the biggest piece of sh!t I’ve been in a long time!

Seriously, it makes our Jeeps feel like a Mercedes-Benz

Show me the best car in the world, and if it has a CVT, I'm out.

 

[Heimkehr]

Show me the best car in the world, and if it has a CVT, I'm out.

I shared your resistance to that technology. I have to admit that it is slowly fading.

My wife's 2019 CR-V has a CVT paired with a 1.5L turbocharged engine. The transmission mimics a traditional automatic very well, sans discernable shift points (of which there aren't any.) The RPM is proportionate to the speed at which the vehicle is being driven in just the manner we'd expect with a traditional slushbox, too. It's a pairing that works very well.

Critically, there's no observed rubber band sensation when giving the Honda some right foot, either (not that my Missus is pleased when I perform my little "field tests", lol).

The mechanical engineering in that vehicle is miles removed from the hoary CVTs we might remember in 90s-era Subarus, and even some newer vehicles.

 

[Headbarcode]

That's saying something, when one considers how bloated the Wrangler has become.



What sort of game is that dealer playing? Are those vehicles for sale, or not?

Yeah, I was surprised at how wide it is. That was one of the reasons I wanted to take some pics of my Jeep next to the Wildtrack with the sasquatch package. It was very close to the width of the Raptor pickup. Seemed wider than the ranger in the same vicinity.

Yeah, the Base and Outerbanks are customer orders that were cancelled but still got built and sent to the dealer. The Wildtrack is one of those rolling advertisements that the dealer can't sell for 6 months. They want nothing less than $10k over msrp for all 3. And they won't even start the engine, much less allow a test drive, before purchase. The pics I did take were after my wife and I were wandering the immediate area outside of the showroom. No one came out until I was taking pics. At least that's how it seemed. My Jeep is also quite noticeable and I was parked right out front. I'm thinking they probably wouldn't have minded pics if we showed up in my wife's Nissan.

 

[sentience]

While my JL is at the dealer getting the steering box TSB, I got a 2021 Nissan Kicks to drive around: cheap plastics everywhere, rubber-band transmission, noisy engine, Quasimodo-inspired ergonomics... Despite its small dimensions, it is the biggest piece of sh!t I’ve been in a long time!

Seriously, it makes our Jeeps feel like a Mercedes-Benz

To be fair to the Nissan Kicks, that’s precisely what it is. A cheap, barebone, plastic SUV. I can see fleet buyers, first time drivers, and young families in them.

the most damning thing I’ve seen with the Ford Bronco is their own dealer network. I thought Jeep dealerships were bad - apparently it’s common practice to mark up the damn things +10k, with some selling them prior to the factory order buyer’s arrival. They also have your typical Ford first year problems: rubbing soft top, whistling grille, recalled hard top, damage on delivery, etc…

 

[rickinAZ]

While my JL is at the dealer getting the steering box TSB, I got a 2021 Nissan Kicks to drive around: cheap plastics everywhere, rubber-band transmission, noisy engine, Quasimodo-inspired ergonomics... Despite its small dimensions, it is the biggest piece of sh!t I’ve been in a long time!

Seriously, it makes our Jeeps feel like a Mercedes-Benz

What looks like crazy fun is the Nissan Juke with a GT-R engine shoe-horned into it. Makes a Hellcat equipped Wrangler look tame in comparison.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...600-hp-gt-r-nismo-powertrain-17-may-be-built/

 

[Headbarcode]

I shared your resistance to that technology. I have to admit that it is slowly fading.

My wife's 2019 CR-V has a CVT paired with a 1.5L turbocharged engine. The transmission mimics a traditional automatic very well, sans discernable shift points (of which there aren't any.) The RPM is proportionate to the speed at which the vehicle is being driven in just the manner we'd expect with a traditional slushbox, too. It's a pairing that works very well.

Critically, there's no observed rubber band sensation when giving the Honda some right foot, either (not that my Missus is pleased when I perform my little "field tests", lol).

The mechanical engineering in that vehicle is miles removed from the hoary CVTs we might remember in 90s-era Subarus, and even some newer vehicles.

Same thoughts and experiences here. My previous vehicle was a 2016 Nissan Juke with a 1.6 turbo i4, cvt, and both regular and torque vectoring awd. It wasn't a hotrod by any means, but at only about 3k lbs, it had some zip to it. Sport mode was a hoot! I could gap much stronger vehicles off a dead stop, until they got in their power band and passed me like I was in reverse.

 

[Pingbling23]

Geez, my Sahara is averaging what your buddy’s Bronco is getting; I have a Mopar lift, 35s and stock gearing as well.

I feel so much better all of a sudden!

That’s interesting. My Sahara with 3.6 etorque mopar lift and 315/70/17 ko2s we get 18-19 mph with regular mixed driving. That’s shameful the smaller bronco engine gets that bad of fuel economy.

 

[Headbarcode]

To be fair to the Nissan Kicks, that’s precisely what it is. A cheap, barebone, plastic SUV. I can see fleet buyers, first time drivers, and young families in them.

the most damning thing I’ve seen with the Ford Bronco is their own dealer network. I thought Jeep dealerships were bad - apparently it’s common practice to mark up the damn things +10k, with some selling them prior to the factory order buyer’s arrival. They also have your typical Ford first year problems: rubbing soft top, whistling grille, recalled hard top, damage on delivery, etc…

The kick replaced the juke. The latter had a love it or hate it look, so it got revised and renamed. They also grossly watered the whole vehicle down, from engine to available packages and interior design and quality.

 

[Headbarcode]

What looks like crazy fun is the Nissan Juke with a GT-R engine shoe-horned into it. Makes a Hellcat equipped Wrangler look tame in comparison.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...600-hp-gt-r-nismo-powertrain-17-may-be-built/

Yeah, that thing is insane. I stopped following it when I traded my regular juke for my Jeep. It was spanking gtr's, except for its higher cog in the curves. They hadn't yet made an awd version.

 

[ReimundKrohn]

I am not a big fan of vehicle "revivals". If it was that good - why did you stop making it?

I think it is intellectually dishonest of Ford to suggest they even built a “6th Generation Bronco”, but that is marketing.

The Bronco (the original ‘66 to ‘77) was Ford’s response to the International Scout. It was a clone; not a Ford innovation. They built it, certainly built a fan base around it, and then ignored it until it lost significant market share as the masses moved on. Ford didn’t know what to do with it until they realized that Chevy had a winner with the Blazer… so “Gen 2” of the Bronco (‘78 - ‘79) was born. Ford literally bought and cut the top off a Blazer and popped it onto an F150 truck bed. Voila: the “all new Bronco”. That was a success - less as an off roader but more as a soccer mom / grocery getter - not that there’s anything wrong with that. Ford did evolve that vehicle along the lines of their F150 throughout the years, (‘80-‘86, ‘87-‘91, ‘92-‘96)… but as it lost market share Ford once again lost interest… so the Bronco evolved into the 4 door Expedition.

The new Bronco wasn’t born in a vacuum either. Ford realized Jeep had a market cornered that they did not. The old generation Broncos have a strong fan base in the off road world, and Ford had already made the decision to axe their automotive (mid size sedan) line up in favour of trucks, a market they dominate. With their off road cred building vis-a-vis the Raptor, it only made sense that a dedicated Wrangler-like off roader would not only fit the new Ford philosophy and line up, it would also fit nicely within their Ranger production line at MAP, helping boost the revenue required to rebuild and retool that plant from the ground up.

Since nostalgia would play such a part in Ford’s marketing strategy, they did have the foresight to 3D scan a Gen 1 to capture the styling cues appropriately for the Gen 6 build. Everything beneath that shell is a Ranger, though. Marketing, much of it built around the Bronco and Wrangler communities, helped cement their “return of a legend” status among the fan base. Their marketing was absolutely brilliant; in that it incorporated existing clubs and events in order to build hype and get the word out. They actually got people to emotionally invest in the Bronco at a time, unbeknownst to all of us including Ford, that people would NEED to invest in something. A time of chaos and uncertainty, no matter what side of the issues of today you may fall on. Ironically, those same issues that saw so many potential customers invested also severely restricted Ford’s ability to deliver on their many promises. As promise after promise was broken, as hopes and dreams were brought crashing back to reality, consumers began to realize that the new Bronco was just that - new. New vehicles are prone to engineering problems. Even when they are based on an existing model. On top of that, to play in Jeep’s sandbox Ford had to build relationships with Jeep vendors - companies that were wholly new to them. Ford doesn’t like dealing with sub vendors, and they proved to have a tendency to “take charge” and make their own Engineering and Cost decisions regardless of their sub vendors input. Some of those decisions proved to be costly; many more are yet to be discovered. That is what happens with new vehicles.

The new Bronco is new, is my point. It isn’t a throw back to the original, other than in styling and market segment. How will it hold up in the long run? Who knows. Not you, nor I, nor Ford. One thing I do know: The Jeep Wrangler does have a long storied history. A history of innovation they have built on. They - Jeep - have been dedicated to this market for 80 years. Do they serve it perfectly? Of course not; but they have never forgotten their roots and they have never turned their back on this market, this lifestyle, and their mission statement.

Why does Ford want back into a market they abandoned? Have you seen Jeep Wrangler market share (particularly with the JL)? Have you noticed that the Wrangler holds its value better than any other SUV on the market? For Ford, it’s all about the “dollah dollah bills, ya’ll. The dollah dollah bills.” … and it shows, in the way they are treating their newly built fan base and would be customers.

Thanks Ford, but no.

 

[Mikeoso]

Both are modern garbage but <3 jeeps so much more

edit: I'm a bit old school about modern manufacturing and plastic everything. i still love vehicles, i promise.

Traditional methods, solid metal...vehicles a person can love.

 

[aldo98229]

That’s interesting. My Sahara with 3.6 etorque mopar lift and 315/70/17 ko2s we get 18-19 mph with regular mixed driving. That’s shameful the smaller bronco engine gets that bad of fuel economy.

That makes sense. eTorque is designed to help precisely when the tires start turning. When you mount 35s, the part that becomes hardest is getting the tires to start turning.

Jeep should have positioned eTorque as an “innovation” that helps when we lift our Jeeps and mount 35-inch tires! Instead of disparaging it, people would be lining up to order eTorque if it had been marketed like that.

 

[DUNE RAP]

I saw your other thread, I am at a loss as to why your average is so low. I don't take many long road trips, but when I do mine gets up over 19, I have been as high as 22 on a longer trip with mostly flat highways. I also have a solar panel on my hood that keeps my dual batt setup topped off quite well, although I'm not sure I quite buy alternator draw being high enough to drop MPG that much as is suggested by some in your thread. It may well be, but i'm not 100% sold.

I have a 2021 2Dr Rubicon with 3.6L E-torque that gets 20-22 in the city. There is something wrong…

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