Creaking Doors...anyone?

[NPE102414]

Merry Christmas!!

You too brother

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[OrangeRuby]

My ‘20 came back from the shop today and they are saying that the door needs to be replaced because the intrusion bar is separated (just like my ‘18). Pretty sure there is no way I’m just so unlucky that I randomly got two vehicles that this happened on. I am very against having my door replaced and my vehicle painted on.

 

[Jay 13]

My ‘20 came back from the shop today and they are saying that the door needs to be replaced because the intrusion bar is separated (just like my ‘18). Pretty sure there is no way I’m just so unlucky that I randomly got two vehicles that this happened on. I am very against having my door replaced and my vehicle painted on.

You’re not that unlucky......like it’s been said, there are many who are part of our club....they just don’t realize it!

don’t waste your time replacing the doors and doing a repaint (you’re getting the same doors!) and you’ve had this happen to 2 Jeeps now! 2 build years apart. Until FCA actually does something to rectify this issue, you’ll be getting the same doors with inevitably the same issue.

welcome to the creak squad (again) sorry bro

also on a side note,
HAPPY NEW YEAR
C R E A K S Q U A D!!!!

 

[NPE102414]

My ‘20 came back from the shop today and they are saying that the door needs to be replaced because the intrusion bar is separated (just like my ‘18). Pretty sure there is no way I’m just so unlucky that I randomly got two vehicles that this happened on. I am very against having my door replaced and my vehicle painted on.

No point, the new door will do the exact same thing in a matter of months. Like I said many times I think every JL on the planet does this, just most don’t notice

 

[OrangeRuby]

My major issue is that it means the intrusion bar can’t perform as it was original designed.

 

[NPE102414]

My major issue is that it means the intrusion bar can’t perform as it was original designed.

Not even a little bit accurate!! The intrusion beam has maybe three dabs/globs of foam that separated, that’s it. The beam is still there and the structural rigidity of the door is still there, Just the door skin basically unglued from the face of the beam. It’s not a safety issue, it’s an annoyance issue. But as discussed here it’s not fixable, replace your doors and have it happen again, there’s no end unless FCA redesigns the doors. We all know that won’t happen until hundreds of thousands of people are replacing their doors and FCA can’t afford to do it anymore, but most of us aren’t willing to have their doors repainted and replaced so it’s never gonna happen.

 

[NPE102414]

My major issue is that it means the intrusion bar can’t perform as it was original designed.

But be honest, did you really buy a jeep for its highly rated side impact protection? Probably not! I run doorless five months out of the year anyways.

 

[OrangeRuby]

Much like your house would be less resistant to outside forces if you took the plywood sheeting off the studs, removing the skin from a shaped channel (such as an intrusion beam) significantly reduces its ability to resist bending.

As well, you are referring to its current state, not it’s possible future state if the separation worsens over time.

 

[NPE102414]

Much like your house would be less resistant to outside forces if you took the plywood sheeting off the studs, removing the skin from a shaped channel (such as an intrusion beam) significantly reduces its ability to resist bending.

As well, you are referring to its current state, not it’s possible future state if the separation worsens over time.

I have personally taken these doors apart and I get what you’re saying but there is no fix, the inherent problem is there and will happen to every door they replace so what’s the point? There is no permanent fix unless FCA redesigns the doors!! Like I said before this is something that every single jail on the planet suffers from or will suffer from, just people don’t notice it. You can see by the picture I just posted, the bottom beam is the one separating and there’s only maybe three dabs of foam adhesive. Talking about it here certainly won’t help, either replace the doors and screw up your paint and Wait for the prom to happen again, sell the Jeep or live with it. The seam like our only options at this point.

 

[00Sebby]

Much like your house would be less resistant to outside forces if you took the plywood sheeting off the studs, removing the skin from a shaped channel (such as an intrusion beam) significantly reduces its ability to resist bending.

As well, you are referring to its current state, not it’s possible future state if the separation worsens over time.

You would be correct if the skin and the beam were joined in a manner where the bond/weld seam/etc. was at least as strong as the parent materials... like welding or riveting. Then the two pieces of metal would be acting as one structural unit. However, as @NPE102414 pointed out, they basically used a semi-flexible foam adhesive/insulating material that's only apparent function is to keep the flattened beer can door skin from rattling against the steel intrusion beam. Once it has separated to the point of creaking, that means the beam is no longer attached to the door skin and is moving/rubbing in parallel to the door skin from the flexing of the door assembly as you open and close it. This movement is creating the creaking sound. After separation, the only thing that could worsen over time is the insulating foam starts wearing away and you get more noise. Based on the design and construction it's difficult to see it becoming a safety issue.

 

[NPE102414]

You would be correct if the skin and the beam were joined in a manner where the bond/weld seam/etc. was at least as strong as the parent materials... like welding or riveting. Then the two pieces of metal would be acting as one structural unit. However, as @NPE102414 pointed out, they basically used a semi-flexible foam adhesive/insulating material that's only apparent function is to keep the flattened beer can door skin from rattling against the steel intrusion beam. Once it has separated to the point of creaking, that means the beam is no longer attached to the door skin and is moving/rubbing in parallel to the door skin from the flexing of the door assembly as you open and close it. This movement is creating the creaking sound. After separation, the only thing that could worsen over time is the insulating foam starts wearing away and you get more noise. Based on the design and construction it's difficult to see it becoming a safety issue.

Agree 100% with your assessment and explanation. I purchased the exact foam FCA uses at the factory, well according to 3M it’s the exact foam used during manufacturing. I also purchased the gun used to deliver the foam. I’m in nuts and bolts, wrench and socket type of guy so this is a little outside my realm, well the foam part that is but I will re foam them at some point if they get worse. The more time that goes by the more it doesn’t bother me. If there was a new design that fixed the issue I would probably think about getting my doors replaced. But until then I refuse to have replacement doors that won’t match correctly only to have the same problem with the replacement doors in a few months. I know I’m not alone and that thinking, it’s unfortunate but it’s the reality

 

[OrangeRuby]

There are two problems with your statement....

1. Aerospace and automotive companies constantly use glue to bond both metallic and non-metallic structures.
   
2. You are doing nothing more than making an assumption about the design intent.

I’m not the one who brought up structural rigidity. My issue is the system cannot function as designed. Whether you like it or not, the door is less rigid if the intrusion beam is separated and floating.

 

[NPE102414]

There are two problems with your statement....

1. Aerospace and automotive companies constantly use glue to bond both metallic and non-metallic structures.
   
2. You are doing nothing more than making an assumption about the design intent.

I’m not the one who brought up structural rigidity. My issue is the system cannot function as designed. Whether you like it or not, the door is less rigid if the intrusion beam is separated and floating.

At this point my friend take it up with FCA, they will gladly replace and repaint your doors. I can guarantee with 100% certainty that you will be right here exactly where you started in less than three months, only his time with shitty looking painted doors. It’s time to get real for a moment, there is not a person on planet earth that bought a wrangler because of its high side impact crash protection ratings. Most of us ride doorless for 4 to 6 months out of the year with zero side impact protection!! We know there’s a flaw! we know it sucks! We know the solution is only temporary because this is your second one with the same problem. Do you really think replacing the doors is a long-term fix??? If you can honestly answer yes to this question then you know what you have to do!

 

[00Sebby]

There are two problems with your statement....

1. Aerospace and automotive companies constantly use glue to bond both metallic and non-metallic structures.
   
2. You are doing nothing more than making an assumption about the design intent.

I’m not the one who brought up structural rigidity. My issue is the system cannot function as designed. Whether you like it or not, the door is less rigid if the intrusion beam is separated and floating.

Rusty, what follows is not meant to sound angry. I lack people skills and type in a very matter-of-fact manner. Also, I tend to approach things very analytically and it annoys people. I am just responding to your points and all of this would probably sound more friendly if we were drinking beers somewhere.

1. You are correct on adhesive/bonding agent use in aerospace and automotive. However, this type of material is not the type of material you glue airplanes and Koenigseggs together with. Having worked with the types of adhesives you are referring to, this is not that.
2. You are making an assumption about me assuming design intent. 20+ years as an engineer in automotive safety systems including seating and interior systems, safety restraints, all types of airbag inflator and airbag assembly manufacturing. That doesn't include what I've been doing the past 10 years in other industries ranging from chemical to aerospace to marine manufacturing. I can expand greatly on that topic but I don't want to bore you or anyone else with my resume. I did not design the Jeep door but I understand door design.
3. You didn't bring up structural rigidity but you did liken this to a house with plywood over studs creating structural strength which I agreed made sense if this was indeed a structural bond. If you look closely at the picture from @NPE102414 you will see the beam is not "floating". It's just not glued to the door skin anymore. The whole door including the beam is still fully assembled and structurally intact with spot welds, bolts, etc. That little bit of foam means nothing if you get hit in the side whether it's adhered or not.

Again, I'm not defending a poor design choice and there are quite a few on the JL. I do think this issue like many of the others is an embarrassment to the brand. But this is a BSR problem, not a safety concern.

 

[NPE102414]

Rusty, what follows is not meant to sound angry. I lack people skills and type in a very matter-of-fact manner. Also, I tend to approach things very analytically and it annoys people. I am just responding to your points and all of this would probably sound more friendly if we were drinking beers somewhere.

1. You are correct on adhesive/bonding agent use in aerospace and automotive. However, this type of material is not the type of material you glue airplanes and Koenigseggs together with. Having worked with the types of adhesives you are referring to, this is not that.
2. You are making an assumption about me assuming design intent. 20+ years as an engineer in automotive safety systems including seating and interior systems, safety restraints, all types of airbag inflator and airbag assembly manufacturing. That doesn't include what I've been doing the past 10 years in other industries ranging from chemical to aerospace to marine manufacturing. I can expand greatly on that topic but I don't want to bore you or anyone else with my resume. I did not design the Jeep door but I understand door design.
3. You didn't bring up structural rigidity but you did liken this to a house with plywood over studs creating structural strength which I agreed made sense if this was indeed a structural bond. If you look closely at the picture from @NPE102414 you will see the beam is not "floating". It's just not glued to the door skin anymore. The whole door including the beam is still fully assembled and structurally intact with spot welds, bolts, etc. That little bit of foam means nothing if you get hit in the side whether it's adhered or not.

Again, I'm not defending a poor design choice and there are quite a few on the JL. I do think this issue like many of the others is an embarrassment to the brand. But this is a BSR problem, not a safety concern.

According to a good friend of mine who owns a very successful body shop told me this is not a problem exclusive to Jeep. He said a lot of manufactures are struggling with this because of the aluminum/magnesium materials being used to manufacture modern day vehicles. And that makes perfect sense because of the acceleration of corrosion if the two metals are bonded together using traditional manufacturing methods. Blame the federal government and EPA regulations for forcing auto manufactures to reinvent the manufacturing wheel in the name of fuel economy. We can debate this until the cows come home but at the end of the day it’s a problem that new doors wont fix. Like I said before, I think every JL out there has this problem, it’s just that most owners don’t notice or care to notice it. It’s usually the very meticulous/OCD crowd such as myself that notices these things. I let a little click drive me crazy yet I take my JL down narrow brushed trails and pinstripe the shit out of both sides on weekly basis and I’m OK with that, I’m insane lol. But that’s also why I became a master with a buffer and compound, it’ll buff out . On a side note, I took the door check out of my drivers door so I don’t have to freak out over it anymore.

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