CR attempts to understand the Jeep thing

[aldo98229]

I think the success of Jeep Wrangler is that it does its own thing and, in doing so, redefines what a “fun” vehicle is.

The entire industry learned to associate “fun to drive” with a very specific formula: low 0-60 times, high g-pad numbers, short braking distances, precise steering, short shifter throws, stiff suspensions, low profile tires, etc. This is the same formula Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, Consumer Reports, etc. continue to use to this day.

But Wrangler flies in the face of all this. Wranglers have vague steering, sloppy suspensions, long shifter throws, tall tires, unremarkable acceleration and braking, and still puts a smile on people’s faces.

When researchers ask owners what makes Wranglers so much fun, the same few obvious responses pop up: removable top and doors, iconic styling, go anywhere capability...

I would argue that owners find Wranglers fun to drive in more mundane, day-to-day uses, in ways they are unable to express. IMO, the combination of front and rear solid axles, with Quadra-Coil suspension, gives Wrangler unique driving characteristics which, while they should be the antithesis of “fun to drive” in traditional terms, results in a uniquely fun to drive vehicle nonetheless.

From this standpoint, Ford already threw out half of Wrangler’s secret sauce when it opted to give Bronco an IFS...

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[old mike]

CR rating things it doesn't really understand is only the tip of the modern iceberg. Today, MBAs are in control of practically everything and they're taught to use standardized metrics for everything. They often, if not usually, don't have a clue about what they're measuring; but, they're damned sure going to develop a spreadsheet with metrics to assess it ...because that's all they were taught to do.

There is an example of this trend that is truly worse than CR being arrogant enough to think they know how to measure off road vehicles. Plenty of recent articles have reported on how software engineers looking for post-pandemic jobs are being subjected to a series of multiple elaborate hiring interviews that corporate HR people have convinced their management are the way to go.

These elaborate hiring interviews, often seven or eight of them, can actually keep the applicant on the hook for weeks while corporate HR people orchestrate hour upon hour of multiple "tests" to document the applicant's coding speed and ability. Through these tests, the corporate HR people effectively have the applicants donating tens of thousands of dollars of unpaid coding time and labor to provide test results that the HR people can only hope to even subjectively assess. But, again, they've seduced corporate management into supporting this circus.

Why is this happening? Well, there are many reasons; but, one is that MBAs who weren't good enough for accounting, but could get through with a personnel management specialization, need jobs too. So, now we have them organized into SHRM and creating this elaborate job security for HR people racket. CR is just another variation of the same sort of reality through metrics thing.

 

[aldo98229]

As an older MBA graduate, I wouldn't blame MBAs as a blanket category; IMO lack of experience is usually the culprit.

The issue is most companies have become too quick to hire based on level of education instead of skill or expertise --see my signature.

The reality is that the hiring process is broken. The Internet has been both a blessing and a curse: companies can reach thousand of applicants but then they get swamped with so many applications that they become incapable to telling who is good and who isn't. At my last employer I was required to follow internal hiring processes: every time I followed the process I ended up with a poor hire; every time I followed my gut I hired a star. But you cannot expect everyone in an organization of 1,500 to hire using their gut.

Getting back to Consumer Reports: they have all sort of problems. The Internet made online reviews free, so their subscription base has been in steady decline. But most importantly, their methodology is flawed from the outset: sampling their own member base does not give them data that is representative of the total US market.

The fact that it took CR 25 years to try to deconstruct the Wrangler conundrum speaks to their intellectual laziness.

 

[_olllllllo_]

Consumer Reports has historically been tough on the Jeep brand, especially so when it comes to the Wrangler. The testers and reviewers have never been able to successfully tap into why, with all of the well documented problems, the Wrangler consistently hits sales records year over year, No need to go into how biased they are towards the imports etc., it's just notable that they acknowedge the loyalty buyers continually have for their beloved brand. Tesla owners are mentioned as falling into the same catagory.

From this month's publication just out Saturday:

The Jeep Wrangler, for example, has below-average reliability in our most recent Annual Auto Surveys. In our tests, we’ve found that it has a stiff, uncomfortable ride and isn’t very agile. Owners are equally dissatisfied with those qualities in other Jeep models. Yet they tell us time and again that they love the Jeep “experience” so much that they would buy the Wrangler (and some other Jeeps) again—even if they have to put up with the headaches and shortcomings.

full article:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ion/owners-love-these-cars-despite-the-flaws/


CR's incredulousness aside, why do we put up with what they cite as "headaches and shortcomings"?
For me, it's simple - I wanted a sporty fun to drive 2 door with a stick and fold back top that I can drive on the beach. And I have exactly that.

I don't even reference them for a vacuum cleaner. I used to look at the ratings, but I soon realized the folks who have limited issues rarely provide feedback. I held off buying a Jeep based on all the poor reliability and mileage stories. I bought my 2019 JLUR and it has been flawless and is easily my favorite vehicle to date.

 

[_olllllllo_]

As an older MBA graduate, I wouldn't blame MBAs as a blanket category; IMO lack of experience is usually the culprit.

The issue is most companies have become too quick to hire based on level of education instead of skill or expertise --see my signature.

The reality is that the hiring process is broken. The Internet has been both a blessing and a curse: companies get swamped with so many applications that they become incapable to telling who is good and who isn't. At my last employer I was required to follow internal hiring processes: every time I followed the process I ended up with a poor hire; every time I followed my gut I hired a star. But you cannot expect everyone in an organization of 1,500 to hire using their gut.

I fought with HR all the time to let me see the resumes of all applicants. I would identify those that I thought weren't full of crap (20,000 hours using a software tool over 3 years) and talked to them on the phone. I asked pointed questions about tool and various hypothetical scenarios. This allowed me to weed those that weren't right for the job. Sometimes I found a couple great folks and sometimes there wasn't anyone worth hiring. HR wanted to usually hire those that wrote the best resume with all the buzz words. I hired people who knew the tools and would do a great job.

 

[aldo98229]

I fought with HR all the time to let me see the resumes of all applicants. I would identify those that I thought weren't full of crap (20,000 hours using a software tool over 3 years) and talked to them on the phone. I asked pointed questions about tool and various hypothetical scenarios. This allowed me to weed those that weren't right for the job. Sometimes I found a couple great folks and sometimes there wasn't anyone worth hiring. HR wanted to usually hire those that wrote the best resume with all the buzz words. I hired people who knew the tools and would do a great job.

HR Depts use special software that scans resumes for buzzwords.

That is why they forward useless resumes with the most buzzwords on them LOL!!!

 

[LongTimeListener]

Like a dog trying to understand how a lightbulb works.

 

[Steve JLUR]

Consumer Reports has historically been tough on the Jeep brand, especially so when it comes to the Wrangler. The testers and reviewers have never been able to successfully tap into why, with all of the well documented problems, the Wrangler consistently hits sales records year over year, No need to go into how biased they are towards the imports etc., it's just notable that they acknowedge the loyalty buyers continually have for their beloved brand. Tesla owners are mentioned as falling into the same catagory.

From this month's publication just out Saturday:

The Jeep Wrangler, for example, has below-average reliability in our most recent Annual Auto Surveys. In our tests, we’ve found that it has a stiff, uncomfortable ride and isn’t very agile. Owners are equally dissatisfied with those qualities in other Jeep models. Yet they tell us time and again that they love the Jeep “experience” so much that they would buy the Wrangler (and some other Jeeps) again—even if they have to put up with the headaches and shortcomings.

full article:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ion/owners-love-these-cars-despite-the-flaws/


CR's incredulousness aside, why do we put up with what they cite as "headaches and shortcomings"?
For me, it's simple - I wanted a sporty fun to drive 2 door with a stick and fold back top that I can drive on the beach. And I have exactly that.

I apologize if someone has already said this.

You have your answer for everyone else that keeps buying Wranglers, and to some extent other Jeeps. We are willing to accept these characteristics because of the unique experience of a Wrangler. I have not had any issues with mine, but I only have 3,000 mi on it right now.

 

[Sjbiss]

Simple. I value the ability to take the top down, doors off and the overall look of the vehicle more so that the stated short comings. The after market support and community are also positives.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Remember when hiring was done face to face. If you felt the prospect was a good fit then they would likely fit in with the culture of the the company and expect to succeed. Not so much anymore. No wonder morale is at an all time low across so many fields of work.

CR likes to over analyze everything. Their foremost requirements are efficiency, safety and perceived reliability. With that in mind, their results are predicabe.

 

[csjlu]

I've considered Consumer Reports data in over 30 years of vehicle purchases. I've found the data to be fairly accurate. When I've bought highly rated vehicles, I generally have had positive experiences. When I've knowingly bought poorly-rated vehicles, I've generally had below-average experiences and regretted not giving the data more consideration. To have that amount predictive insight for as little as $5 before making a $50k purchase...I will gladly pay that every time.

I'm also smart enough not to confuse a general interest magazine that rates toaster ovens in the same issue as being off-road gospel, just as i did not consider the opinions of Off Road and Four Wheeler magazines when it was my wife's turn for a soccer mom SUV.

My reality is that my Wrangler is the worst-driving, least reliable and most chintzily-apportioned vehicle I've owned in 30 years. But I still love it, because it's also the most fun and most versatile vehicle I've ever owned. If there were a data column for that at CR it would excel in the ratings.

 

[dgoodhue]

HR Depts use special software that scans resumes for buzzwords.

That is why they forward useless resumes with the most buzzwords on them LOL!!!

You have to play the game. I don't embellish my experience, but I read the job posting, use the keywords in my cover Letter and often change the wording in my resume if it is applicable. After getting laid off from my 1st job professional job, I assumed that everyone would know synonyms and I didn't have much success for jobs search. It took me 2 3/4 years to find another job in my engineering field. (2 of those years, I worked as fulltime accounting) Someone who was a contractor gave me the advice above. Once I tried that to get through the software and human filters, I had good success in my job searches.

 

[Heimkehr]

Consumer Reports has historically been tough on the Jeep brand, especially so when it comes to the Wrangler. The testers and reviewers have never been able to successfully tap into why, with all of the well documented problems, the Wrangler consistently hits sales records year over year,

full article:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...ion/owners-love-these-cars-despite-the-flaws/

We're not sure why you titled your thread, "CR attempts to understand the Jeep thing". In the very article you link to, it's plainly evident the author comprehends buyers' loyalty to a particular brand or model:

"Of course, we understand the impulse: Some of CR’s own testers own unreliable vehicles because they feel passionate about their other qualities,..."

and

"(W)e’ve found that this intense owner allegiance can extend to used-car versions, owners of which often continue to pay for maintenance and repairs long after the warranty has expired."

 

[dgoodhue]

Consumer Reports doesn't like sports cars either. If they do like a sports car it usually something good handling, sporty but not particularly fast. The fun cars are usually over powered, gas guzzlers, with poor reliability. CR is probably good if you want appliance type of vehicle.

 

[aldo98229]

Remember when hiring was done face to face. If you felt the prospect was a good fit then they would likely fit in with the culture of the the company and expect to succeed. Not so much anymore. No wonder morale is at an all time low across so many fields of work.

CR likes to over analyze everything. Their foremost requirements are efficiency, safety and perceived reliability. With that in mind, their results are predicabe.

In fairness to them, reliability is the single biggest driver of consumer demand.

Thing is, today's consumers assume that reliability is a level-playing field, so they are buying based on emotion.

I suspect that Work From Home is playing into this as well. All of a sudden you don't need a small, efficient and super reliable car to commute back and forth. With the vehicle parked in the driveway most of the week, households are giving themselves permission more than ever to buy something "fun."

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