CONSUMER REPORTS and Gladiators and Wranglers.

[Oncorhynchus]

I will say this, If you compare a Gladiator to the other small pickups out there right now, it really is a great little truck. The interior room alone is what would sell it. The others have almost unusable rear seats when the front passengers are comfortable. As for bed size, not really an issue. If you need to haul more get a trailer or a bigger truck.

My dad just bought a brand new Tacoma. Quite underwhelming in my opinion. The 3.5 has zero low end power, it gets less MPG than my Wrangler The seating position is bad with non supportive seats that are too close to the floor (that’s always been an issue with Tacomas though).

One daughter has an ‘18 Frontier like it a lot better than the Tacoma. Actually rides and drives pretty decent. More noisy then my Wrangler though.

I have no experience with a Colorado or the Ranger. Both have smallish interior space though.

I owned a 4x2 2001 Frontier CrewCab with the long bed for 13 years. Was a great little truck. Was less expensive and more spacious than a Tacoma. I am not a big person, 5’ 9”, but the Tacoma has always felt really cramped inside. I loved having a small truck with a 6’ bed. It was bulletproof. Only downside was the ridiculously poor turning radius. It was almost the same length as a Suburban and had a worse turn radius. On city streets I could not U-turn unless it was a 4 lane road and even then sometimes it was iffy unless there was a median. The stock truck had high enough clearance and after a while I learned to push the limits of the vehicle. I frequently went off pavement and sometimes used a little momentum to get it past traps and ditches in the forest. Other times turned it around and ran it in reverse when I found an impassable stretch of road going forward in the rear wheel drive truck. Switched to an AWD Highlander with the captain’s chairs in the second row when the kids got too big to sit comfortably in the back of the compact crew cab on long road trips. But the AWD Highlander could not go where the 2WD Frontier could go and my ability to head off road was limited. The Highlander is a very good CUV and it handles much better on the mountain curves than a vehicle of its proportions should. But I needed to get back again into the back country. So between the Wrangler and Gladiator there was something about the feel of the Gladiator that felt kinda chintzy, like the sheet metal was thin. It was hard to pinpoint exactly what it was but that was the impression I got, somewhat toylike and not meant to be beaten up on the trails. The Wrangler just felt more solid for its category compared to the Gladiator against its competitors. Again I can’t put my finger on it exactly.

I am not worried about reliability of the Wrangler. It’s already so much better than the Detroit iron I grew up with. Its reliability is better than many luxury vehicles. But I didn’t buy it for reliability. I drilled holes in it when it was still under warranty. If it had pristine fit and finish I wouldn’t want to tinker with it. Something about it makes me feel the wonderment of being a kid again but with the wallet and wisdom of a middle aged man.

I’ve worked in product development for most of my adult life. The Wrangler excels in fulfilling its intended purpose like few other products do. It’s like the Saturn V of rockets and the Invisalign of dental braces. The Coca Cola of soft drinks.

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[Dr. RGB]

I have a plaid jacket, does that count?

I have tweed jackets, and yes, they do have patches on the elbows. Just keeping it real.

 

[HeatBird]

Almost as good as JD Power...who paid the most to have the data skewed to their favor

I'm not sure about that. I remember in the early 90s the Buick City assembly plant's vehicles, Bonnevilles & I forget what else, got a very poor rating. All suppliers had to fly to a meeting there me included. The plant manager ripped everyone a new a-hole. Was not a pleasant experience. Those ratings have clout at least did.

 

[Thunderjet]

I subscribed to CR for well over 30 years. During this time period noticed a slight change where their ratings did not mirror mine or my friends. The other thing that bugged me was they never surveyed me about a vehicle I owned and my guess is I bought 35-40 new vehicles in the last 45 years. The last straw they broke was reporting a couple of the vehicles I did own were problematic and not a good buy yet zero issues for me.
Granted my opinion is a very small part of their data, but I would rather trust my opinion over those who are paid to give one.

 

[Karnak]

its cool that they praises the Gladiator etc but I will be honest, I lost faith in consummer reports years ago when they bashed the Suzuki samurai as an "easily tips over in turns" vehicle when it wasn't.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-90s-scandal-consumer-reports-hopes-you-forgot-about/

 

[wibornz]

I am not surprised. I have pounded my 2019 JLUR and it runs and drives great with 42,000+ miles on it.

 

[rallydefault]

People just don't put in the time to read the fine print about how these publications arrive at their ratings. We now live in the era of anything that goes against our opinion immediately being "fake" or "rigged" or whatever. It's the lazy way out, but hey, it's catchy.

CR clearly explains in every issue how it arrives at its ratings, whether it's a Tacoma or a taco. Now, I don't totally agree with their process, and bias is present in anything that involves humans, but they do have a process; you just have to take a minute to read it and understand what you're talking about. But they don't pull ratings out of thin air based solely on the opinion of the reviewer/editor and they don't take payments from companies for higher scores.

 

[Spearmin]

Just an FYI for those of you who think CR hates Jeeps. In the most recent reliability data in the Jan 21 issue on page 54: The 2020 Gladiator was rated the number one most reliable vehicle of all makes and models including all Toyotas, Honda's, Mazda's, Subarus etc etc. That's according to member survey data not just CR. Rating a Much Better Then Average score. A chart is also shown.

Just imagine how big a deal that really is. A first year FCA product, with removable doors, roof, and folding windshield managing to beat out even a Camry or Accord in reliability. Even the Wrangler got a Better Then Average score for the first time. Read the bubble charts in the Auto issue on Newsstands. Enough knocking Jeep reliability. They are damn good!.

Dude... You should have know better than to post something like this into this pit of extremely cynical vipers.....lol

 

[deserteagle56]

I subscribed to CR for well over 30 years. During this time period noticed a slight change where their ratings did not mirror mine or my friends. The other thing that bugged me was they never surveyed me about a vehicle I owned and my guess is I bought 35-40 new vehicles in the last 45 years. The last straw they broke was reporting a couple of the vehicles I did own were problematic and not a good buy yet zero issues for me.
Granted my opinion is a very small part of their data, but I would rather trust my opinion over those who are paid to give one.

Wow! What did you do to piss them off? They have me filling out surveys every 6 months!

CR is just another information source that I consult. But they do not make my decisions for me! They may rate the Wrangler as poor reliability but I still own one because of the capabilities of a Wrangler. Years ago they also rated an S-10 Blazer I wanted as poor reliability. Nevertheless, I bought one and put 321,000 miles on it.

 

[kgibbs29]

Uh huh. I worked at Toll Brothers for years. They begged for a good JD Powers rating. Then miraculously when they made a bunch of the right "donations" one year they got an award. They just kept buying them, er uh, "winning" them after they learned the method. It certainly wasn't from building a better home.

From your location and working at Toll, we may be both living in the same development; DVCC.

 

[kgibbs29]

My explanation for the reliability score difference between the Gladiator and the Wrangler is this. CR gets their product reliability data by regularly surveying members. They use past reliability data to predict future reliability. If the Gladiator and the Wrangler both had identical excellent survey results from last year's surveys, that would be the entire history for the Gladiator and give it a 99. The Wrangler's longer history of lower scores would dilute the effect of one year of excellent scores and result in a lower score for it.

From Page 56, " Our predictions for the 2021 models below are based on each model’s overall reliability for the past three years. " In other words, Wrangler score for 2021 is based on 2018, 2019 & 2020 models. Crappy reliability from 5 or 10 years ago does not factor into the score.

 

[HeatBird]

From Page 56, " Our predictions for the 2021 models below are based on each model’s overall reliability for the past three years. " In other words, Wrangler score for 2021 is based on 2018, 2019 & 2020 models. Crappy reliability from 5 or 10 years ago does not factor into the score.

Maybe because it is a new model?

 

[kgibbs29]

Maybe because it is a new model?

The next sentences after the previous quote is " One or two years of data are used if the model was redesigned in 2020 or 2019. Scores are based on a scale of 0 to 100. A score of 41 to 60 is considered average. The predictions for all-new and redesigned 2021 models are based on our judgment of the brand’s reliability history, the previous generation’s history, and that of other models the vehicle shares components with. 2021 models with an asterisk (*) are new or redesigned."

I still find it baffling that a Wrangler score of 27 (which shares a lot in common with the Gladiator across the 17 areas for reliability) and a Pacifica score of 34 (sharing the same Penstar engine as Wrangler & Gladiator) yields a Gladiator reliability score of 99 for the 17 areas they rate: Engine Major, Engine Minor, Engine Cooling, Transmission Major, Transmission Minor, Drive System, Emissions & Fuel System, Electric System, Climate System, Steering & Suspension, Brakes, Exhaust System, Paint/Trim, Body Integrity (Noises & Leaks), Body Hardware, Power Equipment & In-car Electronics.

 

[GGolds]

its cool that they praises the Gladiator etc but I will be honest, I lost faith in consummer reports years ago when they bashed the Suzuki samurai as an "easily tips over in turns" vehicle when it wasn't.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-90s-scandal-consumer-reports-hopes-you-forgot-about/

I seem to be the only real supporter of CR on here. Not that I love them by any means. As a matter of fact I should really hate them, but I forgive easily. In 1987 I bought my very first new "car". Just prior to buying that wonderful little trucklette (Suzuki Samurai), I called CR and actually asked them if they were going to do a write up on it in the near future. Why?, because I new that it was fairly radical as vehicles were at that time and I new that if it tested badly I would have a vehicle I would never be able to sell. Now that I think about it that was really a pretty forward thinking thing to do at 23. However, they said they couldn't say anything at all, that it was all confidential as the data hadn't been released yet. So I bought my wonderful little Samurai and I was so thrilled with that awful riding, slow, did I say HORRIBLE riding little Jeeplette. Well, that was in May of 87. As I write this I'm sitting here with that very issue. July 1988. I remember the feeling in my throat, stomach, and heart when the issue arrived in my mailbox showing the headline on the front cover "The Dangerous Suzuki Samurai". I was horrified. Well, I managed to sell it, and oddly enough it sold quickly, but far less then I wanted for it. I then went right out and bought a 1988 Geo Tracker ( IE Suzuki Sidekick) , and following that came my brand spanking new 90 Wrangler. The rest was history. My bittersweet relationship with CR. Like a strict parent who always tells you that what you think is fun and exciting is dangerous and not happening under their roof. Life is but a continual challenge.

The next sentences after the previous quote is " One or two years of data are used if the model was redesigned in 2020 or 2019. Scores are based on a scale of 0 to 100. A score of 41 to 60 is considered average. The predictions for all-new and redesigned 2021 models are based on our judgment of the brand’s reliability history, the previous generation’s history, and that of other models the vehicle shares components with. 2021 models with an asterisk (*) are new or redesigned."

I still find it baffling that a Wrangler score of 27 (which shares a lot in common with the Gladiator across the 17 areas for reliability) and a Pacifica score of 34 (sharing the same Penstar engine as Wrangler & Gladiator) yields a Gladiator reliability score of 99 for the 17 areas they rate: Engine Major, Engine Minor, Engine Cooling, Transmission Major, Transmission Minor, Drive System, Emissions & Fuel System, Electric System, Climate System, Steering & Suspension, Brakes, Exhaust System, Paint/Trim, Body Integrity (Noises & Leaks), Body Hardware, Power Equipment & In-car Electronics.

Rarely does a first year model of any brand score such high reliability. Being that it's a new model a score of 99 is so unusual that they must then be predicting that it's future must be good as an older model. When a Honda or Toyota rates that high in a first year their prediction is much better then average based and it usually is. FCA has infused a huge amount of money into their new Jeeps so it really shouldn't be so hard to explain, just unusually good for a first year.

 

[DanW]

Every vehicle I've ever owned except my 4 Runners and Mercedes E430 was hated by CR and rated poorly. But all gave me excellent service and reliability.

I hope they are finally right with this one! Lol.

My JL Wrangler was made in December of 2017, before the production line was up to speed. It has been excellent by all measures, after 3 years and 41k miles.

Hats off to the late Sergio Marchionne, former Fiat Chrysler CEO, who promised the best Jeep ever. Also thanks to Mike Manley, head of Jeep at the time, and Mark Allen, chief designer for the JL and JT and their entire design and manufacturing team. And the folks who put them all together in Toledo. They did this one right.

I'll have a cigar and a beer in Sergio's honor, when the weather permits or when I get to Moab in the spring!

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