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Update: Considering used 2021 4xe - Food for thought?

BigSkyKatie

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Until a couple weeks ago, I was the owner of a 2009 Jeep Sahara JKU who hoped to get a new Wrangler in a year or two. That 2009 had about 180k miles on it when I wrecked it. It had 88k when I bought it. I never had a major repair.

Well, I screwed up. I wrecked my Jeep. Total loss. So now the timeline is altered and the plans likewise.
(I'm physically fine - just air bag bruises/abrasions/burns/lacerations. My feelings were hurt more than my body.)

So... my husband and I are now looking to get me another Jeep.

Getting a used "for now" Jeep was the direction we were looking. But he is starting to lean toward getting a new or nearly new what-I-really-want Jeep. That would require trading in his 2018 Toyota Tundra. In that case, the Jeep needs to be able to tow our small travel trailer. IIRC, max loaded weight is 5,500. I'll have to double check that. I'm reluctant to go the route of trading in his truck, that he wanted for quite a while, to replace my Jeep that I wrecked. Sounds like resentment recipe to me. He says his truck just sits in the driveway idle these days. That's true. But still...

In any case, what brings me here is I saw a listing for a used 2021 Sahara 4xe. It's almost exactly built out the way I pick options when I window shop on the Jeep website. Right down to an option I rarely see on vehicle lots - tan leather seats. So I'm drooling...

I Googled the owner's manual for that model to read about charging and look up towing capacity, but among the search results was a discussion that took place in this forum back in 2020 before that model actually even came out. That thread had a lot of discussion about operating temperature limits.

So then I started wondering about real world experience.

So... was the 2021 4xe a solid performer or did early adopters serve as guinea pigs? I've been checking out threads. Sounds like current model owners are generally pretty happy. But was that true for 2021 owners?

The thread I found had a lot of discussion about starting temperatures. I live in Montana and regularly camp, in the back of my Jeep in/around Yellowstone (or did and plan to again). Am I not going to work if its colder that -24 F? Am I going to be stranded camping at -30 F?Add to considerations: I run a CPAP off battery over night. I have done that for many years and various vehicles. I have made a habit of setting an alarm for a time during the night and using remote start to start vehicle to avoid a dead 12v battery in the morning.

I'm unclear about regenerative charging on 4xe. Does it do that? Or does it only charge plugged in? We currently own our second Toyota Camry Hybrid. I "get" regenerative charging. I understand fully electric (which would be fully out of contention). I understand the 4xe can use elecric/gas/both. But what about charging? I saw some discussion about different modes on 4xe. What can you tell me about that?

I LOVE the idea of no engine noise when I'm on trails - and no combustion engine vibration if I roll up on a photo op (I'm a nature photog). I love the Camry for those aspects (and fuel economy). But I loved my Jeep for every other aspect.

Basically, I'm eager to learn everything a person considering a 2021 4xe should know.
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Brandonhgt

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Unfortunately, no wrangler will be able to safely tow a 5,500 pound camper. While the 4xe has plenty of power, the chassis is only rated for a maximum of 3,500 pounds.

As far as 2021 vs later models, we have a 2021 and a 2023 4xe (both with tan leather ftw). They are mostly the same with different tops. There is no perceivable difference between the two other than the 2023 stays in electric in the winter a bit more than the 2021 does. My hunch is they will be the same once I take them in for the pending recalls. The 2021 also has a 10 year warranty vs 8 year warranty on later models.
 

lindaspins

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I love my '21 4xe. It will do all the things you've mentioned, except towing. The tow capacity is 3500, same as most other Wranglers.
We tow a 2000lb camper with ours.
 

sentience

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As both a Jeep guy and a Toyota guy, I feel bad for your husband. Jeep wrecked and Tundra trade in? Double whammy.

Specific to the 2021’s I would suggest considering those if it’s not going to be your primary vehicle. Had a lot of growing pains with mine, but I know a few folks happy with theirs. Just make sure you review the service history, CPO checklist if available. The Jeep will work fine in cold weather as a gas vehicle.

The cold weather advice is based on mine and others inability to consistently clear the “fuel and oil refresh” (FORM) mode, which prevents use of the EV only mode. There was also a common failure with the EV heater, which now generates a check engine light (CHOC).

Needless to say, you’ll want to have a warranty with it. Make sure the warranty covers the EV/hybrid system.

My personal recommendation is to always go with the gas model. New or used.
 

BigMaCro

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Hi Katie, I'm also from Montana (Alaska now) and a former Camry hybrid owner. I've got 25,000 miles on my 2021 4xe, with no problems. I think it would be great for Montana - I'm considering moving back myself.

I would not be concerned about cold temps, there is the theoretical possibility that if the battery is too cold it won't start, but that's the case with any car. I had mine sitting unplugged at -10f for a weekend and it fired right up. Obviously plug in whenever you can.

Honestly the biggest issue you may have is that the rear seat does not fold flat. The big battery is under the rear seat, so when folded down there is a big step up for the seat back over the battery - not good for sleeping! Some have built a platform for the cargo area to level it with the seat back, I have removed my seat and built a full-length platform.

There is the issue of towing - the jeep isn't a good replacement for the Tundra as a tow vehicle. Personally I might give it a try - I towed a 15' kit companion all over Montana with my XJ Cherokee. But the wrangler platform really isn't designed for it, and the hitch is a joke. I've installed a stronger bumper with a built-in hitch that has better attachment.
 

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BigSkyKatie

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Honestly the biggest issue you may have is that the rear seat does not fold flat. The big battery is under the rear seat, so when folded down there is a big step up for the seat back over the battery - not good for sleeping! Some have built a platform for the cargo area to level it with the seat back, I have removed my seat and built a full-length platform.

There is the issue of towing - the jeep isn't a good replacement for the Tundra as a tow vehicle. Personally I might give it a try - I towed a 15' kit companion all over Montana with my XJ Cherokee. But the wrangler platform really isn't designed for it, and the hitch is a joke. I've installed a stronger bumper with a built-in hitch that has better attachment.
Thanks for the info about the rear seat not folding flat. That is a very important consideration.
 

EcoRubicon

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I would also consider purchasing new to take advantage of the $7,500 tax rebate for buying a hybrid. May end up similar pricing to used...best of luck with your search!
 

IdahoJOAT

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I'll chime in here:

We had a 2020 2.0T JLUR and loved it. Then went to a 2021 JLURe.

Let's start with towing. The Euro/Aus JLURs are able to tow up to 5500#, but their hitch is a bit beefier than ours. But everything else is the same. So anyone saying the chassis, axles, engine, trans, etc. isn't up to snuff is just plain wrong. Now is it RATED for 5500# in the US? It absolutely is not. In Euro/Aus they're much more strict on towing. Speed limits, mandatory trailer brakes, etc.

If you're looking to tow 5500#, I would get a Gladiator.

Now let's go to the cold weather. In cold weather some of the EV systems sometimes don't work. Pure and simple. I personally enjoy watching all the threads about FORM and the people that didn't do their research before buying and now are bitching and moaning.

In our home, we just say, "Eh, it's cold out. It's not going to use the EV. Not a big deal, still getting better mileage than the pickups."

TBH, from what you're describing, I don't think a 4xe is for you.
 

Bandit59

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Until a couple weeks ago, I was the owner of a 2009 Jeep Sahara JKU who hoped to get a new Wrangler in a year or two. That 2009 had about 180k miles on it when I wrecked it. It had 88k when I bought it. I never had a major repair.

Well, I screwed up. I wrecked my Jeep. Total loss. So now the timeline is altered and the plans likewise.
(I'm physically fine - just air bag bruises/abrasions/burns/lacerations. My feelings were hurt more than my body.)

So... my husband and I are now looking to get me another Jeep.

Getting a used "for now" Jeep was the direction we were looking. But he is starting to lean toward getting a new or nearly new what-I-really-want Jeep. That would require trading in his 2018 Toyota Tundra. In that case, the Jeep needs to be able to tow our small travel trailer. IIRC, max loaded weight is 5,500. I'll have to double check that. I'm reluctant to go the route of trading in his truck, that he wanted for quite a while, to replace my Jeep that I wrecked. Sounds like resentment recipe to me. He says his truck just sits in the driveway idle these days. That's true. But still...

In any case, what brings me here is I saw a listing for a used 2021 Sahara 4xe. It's almost exactly built out the way I pick options when I window shop on the Jeep website. Right down to an option I rarely see on vehicle lots - tan leather seats. So I'm drooling...

I Googled the owner's manual for that model to read about charging and look up towing capacity, but among the search results was a discussion that took place in this forum back in 2020 before that model actually even came out. That thread had a lot of discussion about operating temperature limits.

So then I started wondering about real world experience.

So... was the 2021 4xe a solid performer or did early adopters serve as guinea pigs? I've been checking out threads. Sounds like current model owners are generally pretty happy. But was that true for 2021 owners?

The thread I found had a lot of discussion about starting temperatures. I live in Montana and regularly camp, in the back of my Jeep in/around Yellowstone (or did and plan to again). Am I not going to work if its colder that -24 F? Am I going to be stranded camping at -30 F?Add to considerations: I run a CPAP off battery over night. I have done that for many years and various vehicles. I have made a habit of setting an alarm for a time during the night and using remote start to start vehicle to avoid a dead 12v battery in the morning.

I'm unclear about regenerative charging on 4xe. Does it do that? Or does it only charge plugged in? We currently own our second Toyota Camry Hybrid. I "get" regenerative charging. I understand fully electric (which would be fully out of contention). I understand the 4xe can use elecric/gas/both. But what about charging? I saw some discussion about different modes on 4xe. What can you tell me about that?

I LOVE the idea of no engine noise when I'm on trails - and no combustion engine vibration if I roll up on a photo op (I'm a nature photog). I love the Camry for those aspects (and fuel economy). But I loved my Jeep for every other aspect.

Basically, I'm eager to learn everything a person considering a 2021 4xe should know.
I had one. Battery powered Jeep to me is not good Only get 30-35 miles on straight battery power not enough. Will have to improve on that to draw me back. I will keep my 3.6
 

Getmadboy

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@BigSkyKatie Hi there! This is a long response, but you asked and I’m answering.

I have a 2021 Sahara 4xe and I was one of the early adopters having taken delivery in early May 2021. I have had zero issues with my 4xe aside from my backup guidelines disappearing (which is an issue for every JL regardless of trim…but seems to have been resolved with the latest software patch). Mechanically, my jeep has been perfect from day 1.

One common misconception is that the battery is just “dead weight” once it shows <1% on the gauge. always ~15% charge stored in it even if the battery gauge shows <1%. The 4xe is a hybrid vehicle, first and foremost and it will always try to prioritize battery usage over gas. The different selectable driving modes simply tell the Jeep how much throttle before the gas engine jumps on to help with acceleration…electric mode takes about 80% throttle to kick in the gas engine, hybrid mode is about 40% to kick on the gas engine, and e-save mode is 0% to kick on the gas engine (pretty much turns on the gas engine right away).

An easy way to think of it is the 4xe will try to utilize the battery to power itself until the battery gauge shows <1%. After that, it will operate like a traditional hybrid vehicle and will use both battery and gas to accelerate (like a Prius for example).

Regarding charging, the best way to charge is plugged in. However, there are users who never plug in and operate the 4xe like any other traditional hybrid (aka Prius et al). The benefit to plugging in is to take advantage of the extra electric power. It will help cut the cost of fuel and will allow all electric driving, but it’s not required.

Additionally, it will recoup some electric charge while braking. This is especially nice when coasting downhill, you’re charging your battery, not using any gas, and not wearing down your brakes. For example, I took my 4xe camping in Anza Borrego and there’s a fairly long and steep descent into the valley. I don’t remember the exact amount of charge I recouped, but I wanna say it was somewhere around 40%. I was able to cruise around the majority of first day through the canyon in all electric mode just off of the charge I got on the way in.

There’s an instagram account @hybridjeep. He has taken his 2021 Sahara 4xe all across the US, including Alaska. I don’t believe he’s had any major issues, but you should check out his account.

Long winded, yes. Hopefully it’s helpful!
 

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ND_4XE

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Until a couple weeks ago, I was the owner of a 2009 Jeep Sahara JKU who hoped to get a new Wrangler in a year or two. That 2009 had about 180k miles on it when I wrecked it. It had 88k when I bought it. I never had a major repair.

Well, I screwed up. I wrecked my Jeep. Total loss. So now the timeline is altered and the plans likewise.
(I'm physically fine - just air bag bruises/abrasions/burns/lacerations. My feelings were hurt more than my body.)

So... my husband and I are now looking to get me another Jeep.

Getting a used "for now" Jeep was the direction we were looking. But he is starting to lean toward getting a new or nearly new what-I-really-want Jeep. That would require trading in his 2018 Toyota Tundra. In that case, the Jeep needs to be able to tow our small travel trailer. IIRC, max loaded weight is 5,500. I'll have to double check that. I'm reluctant to go the route of trading in his truck, that he wanted for quite a while, to replace my Jeep that I wrecked. Sounds like resentment recipe to me. He says his truck just sits in the driveway idle these days. That's true. But still...

In any case, what brings me here is I saw a listing for a used 2021 Sahara 4xe. It's almost exactly built out the way I pick options when I window shop on the Jeep website. Right down to an option I rarely see on vehicle lots - tan leather seats. So I'm drooling...

I Googled the owner's manual for that model to read about charging and look up towing capacity, but among the search results was a discussion that took place in this forum back in 2020 before that model actually even came out. That thread had a lot of discussion about operating temperature limits.

So then I started wondering about real world experience.

So... was the 2021 4xe a solid performer or did early adopters serve as guinea pigs? I've been checking out threads. Sounds like current model owners are generally pretty happy. But was that true for 2021 owners?

The thread I found had a lot of discussion about starting temperatures. I live in Montana and regularly camp, in the back of my Jeep in/around Yellowstone (or did and plan to again). Am I not going to work if its colder that -24 F? Am I going to be stranded camping at -30 F?Add to considerations: I run a CPAP off battery over night. I have done that for many years and various vehicles. I have made a habit of setting an alarm for a time during the night and using remote start to start vehicle to avoid a dead 12v battery in the morning.

I'm unclear about regenerative charging on 4xe. Does it do that? Or does it only charge plugged in? We currently own our second Toyota Camry Hybrid. I "get" regenerative charging. I understand fully electric (which would be fully out of contention). I understand the 4xe can use elecric/gas/both. But what about charging? I saw some discussion about different modes on 4xe. What can you tell me about that?

I LOVE the idea of no engine noise when I'm on trails - and no combustion engine vibration if I roll up on a photo op (I'm a nature photog). I love the Camry for those aspects (and fuel economy). But I loved my Jeep for every other aspect.

Basically, I'm eager to learn everything a person considering a 2021 4xe should know.
What are they asking for this '21 4xe? Until the 4xe used market gets a few more years on it, may be just as well to buy a new one and take advantage of the tax credit.

The MY24 Wrangler is coming out with a higher rated rear axle for towing, not sure if it will be available on the 4xe. How long is your travel trailer, and how far do you pull it? Could possibly get by on shorter distances as long as you're setup with WD hitch and trailer brakes.

Where the 4xe shines is daily commutes within the battery range (and you can plug-in at night). Cold weather is not really an issue, but for long road trips and towing there isn't any added value with the 4xe. The "no engine noise" thing a little overrated; modern engines are fairly quiet and the cooling fans are electric and only run when they need to. The electric power steering on the 4xe is rather whiny and the Pedestrian Warning System (PWS) emits noise when traveling below ~20 mph.
 

speedymart

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I'd personally avoid the 21's as they have the most issues by far. New model and all that. By now most should've been repaired though. I'd suggest just getting a new one if you're dead set on a 4XE to snag the tax credit.

I'm super curious to see how these retain their value in the next 5 years or so. Usually EV/PHEVS tank hard in resale value meanwhile the wrangler itself is like the strongest on the market when it comes to resale.
 

BXFXJeep

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I'd personally avoid the 21's as they have the most issues by far. New model and all that. By now most should've been repaired though. I'd suggest just getting a new one if you're dead set on a 4XE to snag the tax credit.

I'm super curious to see how these retain their value in the next 5 years or so. Usually EV/PHEVS tank hard in resale value meanwhile the wrangler itself is like the strongest on the market when it comes to resale.
The only issues the 2021 have is that the dealerships service department didn't know what they were doing, and the same goes for every other model year to a lesser extent.

The 3.6/392/diesel aren't any different when it comes to service departments not knowing what they are doing.
 

speedymart

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The only issues the 2021 have is that the dealerships service department didn't know what they were doing, and the same goes for every other model year to a lesser extent.

The 3.6/392/diesel aren't any different when it comes to service departments not knowing what they are doing.
No, the 21s had a lot of issues and a lot of recalls. Water outlet leaks, pinched HV connector seals, like 10 flashes, lower control arm nuts not being torqued. Lots of things. These were just recalls/RRTs. I can't thing of any issue the 21's had other then those though. Like I said, most of this should've been addressed by now if he's buying used.
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