Confusion re: lift kits

[aug0211]

Perhaps, but it's hard to say right now. I don't think anyone has publicized the JL spring rates yet. We know the JK was 122 and 165, and I suspect the JL is close to those as well. I will ask their R&D guys if they can share their spring rates. Some MFG's will and others wont. If I can't get the exact rates, maybe I can find a % increase. If within about 10% they would be considered "soft". That's the way OME springs usually are, about 10% increase over stock. And that's 1 reason why the OME kits ride so nicely. Others like Teraflex on the JK are 35-40% firmer, that's a much bigger difference. Will they all do the same thing on the JL? I like your word, perhaps....

You rock, thanks!!! Appreciate the help tracking down info AND teaching along the way.

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[Pressurized]

Hey Pressurized,

Do you know the install cost for the Mopar lift at your hobby shop? I have to drive to PHX next month and I hope to have my JLUR by then - dealership told me yesterday that it was pushed back from the 10th to the 22nd. My dealership quoted me somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 bucks to install it.

I'll check.

 

[Godzilla]

Many thanks!

 

[ResponsibleAdult]

What a great thread! I’m learning so much!

I’ll jump in here with questions about my non-JL build, if you don’t mind.

My DD for the past 14 years has been my beloved 2005 LJ. Assuming Mojito opens up shortly, the LJ will become a weekend fun rig, kept at the cottage.

She is stock right now. I’d like to put a reasonably sized lift on her (I’m only 5’2”), bigger wheels, and better tires.

I’m honestly stumped, trying to figure out how to start the plan, with a vehicle this old and well loved (230 000km). I don’t want to go too big, and overly stress other components.

How to start?

 

[Pressurized]

What a great thread! I’m learning so much!

I’ll jump in here with questions about my non-JL build, if you don’t mind.

My DD for the past 14 years has been my beloved 2005 LJ. Assuming Mojito opens up shortly, the LJ will become a weekend fun rig, kept at the cottage.

She is stock right now. I’d like to put a reasonably sized lift on her (I’m only 5’2”), bigger wheels, and better tires.

I’m honestly stumped, trying to figure out how to start the plan, with a vehicle this old and well loved (230 000km). I don’t want to go too big, and overly stress other components.

How to start?

For me, TJ and LJ "mild" build is going to be OME. Call Dirk at DPG Off-road and he'll put together a perfect kit for you to run 33's the way it should be done.

 

[CuylerTech]

Perhaps, but it's hard to say right now. I don't think anyone has publicized the JL spring rates yet. We know the JK was 122 and 165, and I suspect the JL is close to those as well. I will ask their R&D guys if they can share their spring rates. Some MFG's will and others wont. If I can't get the exact rates, maybe I can find a % increase. If within about 10% they would be considered "soft". That's the way OME springs usually are, about 10% increase over stock. And that's 1 reason why the OME kits ride so nicely. Others like Teraflex on the JK are 35-40% firmer, that's a much bigger difference. Will they all do the same thing on the JL? I like your word, perhaps....

I know in regards to OEM, there are 18 Different Spring Rates used on the 4 door alone.

 

[Pressurized]

I know in regards to OEM, there are 18 Different Spring Rates used on the 4 door alone.

Spring rates or spring lengths? On the JK they are all the same rate, but have many different lengths based on the build.

 

[CuylerTech]

Spring rates or spring lengths? On the JK they are all the same rate, but have many different lengths based on the build.

Spring rates.

 

[Pressurized]

Spring rates.

What is your information based on?

 

[CuylerTech]

What is your information based on?

I’ve been working with multiple shock companies on getting them factory springs to test with.

 

[NCSUSTATS]

I know in regards to OEM, there are 18 Different Spring Rates used on the 4 door alone.

Interesting. That seems like a lot of fine-tuning. I’m surprised Jeep does not offer custom suspension modification kits themselves. Clearly they have the resources and customers are willing to give plenty of $$ for their current kit, notwithstanding its perceived flaw(s)

 

[Pressurized]

I’ve been working with multiple shock companies on getting them factory springs to test with.

And this feedback is them telling you the springs are different rates? Ask them what the specific rates are. Spring wire is easy to measure. And while a spring with more coils or longer will have a slightly different rate even when the spring wire is the same diameter, it's not enough difference to to be discernible when mounted on a Jeep. I would like more data to confirm, because I have personally measured multiple springs and while they are different lengths, the spring wire is the same which would be effectively the same rate on both springs.

 

[CuylerTech]

And this feedback is them telling you the springs are different rates? Ask them what the specific rates are. Spring wire is easy to measure. And while a spring with more coils or longer will have a slightly different rate even when the spring wire is the same diameter, it's not enough difference to to be discernible when mounted on a Jeep. I would like more data to confirm, because I have personally measured multiple springs and while they are different lengths, the spring wire is the same which would be effectively the same rate on both springs.

I know what the rates are, I have a whole table of them. Need to check to make sure I can share before I do.

 

[aug0211]

I know what the rates are, I have a whole table of them. Need to check to make sure I can share before I do.

This is mind boggling to me. I wonder why so many different rates?

Also, this last message piqued my interest. Did Jeep provide you with the springs and that’s why you might not be able to share? Or have you been collecting them yourself?

This is so interesting to me - I really don’t know anything about this space but am following just because I’m intrigued to hear there are so many different permutations.

I guess I can think of the following:
(2) - Automatic / Manual
(2) - 3.6 / 2.0T
(6) - Sport / Sport S / Sahara (SelecTrac) / Sahara (non SelecTrac) / Rubi (Steel Bumpers) / Rubi (Plastic Bumpers)

That would put it at 24 different combinations... and maybe a couple of those overlap some so they end up sharing the same springs/rates to get it down to 18? There are probably other variables that have more impact - differential? Trailer
Tow?

100% speculation from me, of course - I know nothing about this... just trying to make sense of why they have so many different rates. Given the rest of the attention to detail/drive for perfection (or lack thereof) on Wranglers, I’d be very pleasantly surprised to hear that they are this specific on their spring rates!

...or are they just using a bunch of different suppliers who won’t conform to a single standard?

 

[CuylerTech]

This is mind boggling to me. I wonder why so many different rates?

Also, this last message piqued my interest. Did Jeep provide you with the springs and that’s why you might not be able to share? Or have you been collecting them yourself?

This is so interesting to me - I really don’t know anything about this space but am following just because I’m intrigued to hear there are so many different permutations.

I guess I can think of the following:
(2) - Automatic / Manual
(2) - 3.6 / 2.0T
(6) - Sport / Sport S / Sahara (SelecTrac) / Sahara (non SelecTrac) / Rubi (Steel Bumpers) / Rubi (Plastic Bumpers)

That would put it at 24 different combinations... and maybe a couple of those overlap some so they end up sharing the same springs/rates to get it down to 18? There are probably other variables that have more impact - differential? Trailer
Tow?

100% speculation from me, of course - I know nothing about this... just trying to make sense of why they have so many different rates. Given the rest of the attention to detail/drive for perfection (or lack thereof) on Wranglers, I’d be very pleasantly surprised to hear that they are this specific on their spring rates!

...or are they just using a bunch of different suppliers who won’t conform to a single standard?

There are some that are shared, but in total 18 different rates we've found. Jeep did not supply us with the springs.

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