Coming in 2027 - fully electric Wrangler

[Dusty Dude]

So there is pressurized water (fire hydrant) on trails you go on? And they have enough water to put out an ICE fire but not enough as an EV fire? I’ve never seen that before. tho admittedly I don’t do hard core stuff. Mostly light/medium trails and a bit overlanding.

Certainly new to me.

My main point was the temperature differences between the two types of vehicle fires. A hotter fire means you can ignite other items (grass, leaves, pine needles, trees) from a greater distance.

Also, in an EV fire, if the battery is acting as an arc welder, it could care less if any air is present or not. A fire extinguisher/water is useless in that respect. Until the battery is discharged, all you are trying to do is limit the spread of the fire.

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[Sdallnct]

My main point was the temperature differences between the two types of vehicle fires. A hotter fire means you can ignite other items (grass, leaves, pine needles, trees) from a greater distance.

Also, in an EV fire, if the battery is acting as an arc welder, it could care less if any air is present or not. A fire extinguisher/water is useless in that respect. Until the battery is discharged, all you are trying to do is limit the spread of the fire.

I get all that. But the poster was talking about his fear of taking an EV on the trails. And I had a couple points,

1) It’s significantly more likely to have a fire in an ICE than EV. Magnitudes more likely.
2) Are forest fires caused by vehicles an issue? Does it happen a lot?
3) Assume no water maybe a hand held fire extinguisher, do we really know if that puts out an ICE fire in most cases? I carry a small extinguisher but I have it for camp site, tailgating, cooking, camp fire. I have no illusion would be effective on my wrangler.

I get some don’t want an EV. And I get an EV is like any other vehicle in that an EV is not a good choice for everyone. And there r pro’s and con’s to EV’s (Like every vehicle) But fear of wheeling as it might start a forest fire? Really?

 

[av8or]

I get all that. But the poster was talking about his fear of taking an EV on the trails. And I had a couple points,

1) It’s significantly more likely to have a fire in an ICE than EV. Magnitudes more likely.
2) Are forest fires caused by vehicles an issue? Does it happen a lot?
3) Assume no water maybe a hand held fire extinguisher, do we really know if that puts out an ICE fire in most cases? I carry a small extinguisher but I have it for camp site, tailgating, cooking, camp fire. I have no illusion would be effective on my wrangler.

I get some don’t want an EV. And I get an EV is like any other vehicle in that an EV is not a good choice for everyone. And there r pro’s and con’s to EV’s (Like every vehicle) But fear of wheeling as it might start a forest fire? Really?

Haters gonna hate. It doesn’t need to be true or make sense, they just dig their heels in.

 

[Dusty Dude]

I get all that. But the poster was talking about his fear of taking an EV on the trails. And I had a couple points,

1) It’s significantly more likely to have a fire in an ICE than EV. Magnitudes more likely.
2) Are forest fires caused by vehicles an issue? Does it happen a lot?
3) Assume no water maybe a hand held fire extinguisher, do we really know if that puts out an ICE fire in most cases? I carry a small extinguisher but I have it for camp site, tailgating, cooking, camp fire. I have no illusion would be effective on my wrangler.

I get some don’t want an EV. And I get an EV is like any other vehicle in that an EV is not a good choice for everyone. And there r pro’s and con’s to EV’s (Like every vehicle) But fear of wheeling as it might start a forest fire? Really?

You made good points. I’m curious about the rates of fires in ICE vs EV. Are these fires a result of an accident or just starting on fire on their own? I’m not disputing the numbers at all, just looking for clarification out of pure curiosity. I’m sure there are many more accidents of ICE’s and that might explain the higher rate. Then again, maybe not.

As for your last point, I would look to demo derbys. Vehicle fires happen a lot in the derbys, and most fires are put out with extinguishers. Granted, they use larger extinguishers, but most of the time that is all that is needed because they get to it quickly.

Regardless of whether someone wants an EV or hates them, the posters fear was a valid point. As I have stated before, the EV batteries have not been tested extensively(or certified) for off road use. Can these batteries take the physical abuse that these vehicles take on a trail? We don’t know…

 

[Gossamer]

https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/are-electric-vehicles-more-likely-to-catch-on-fire/#:~:text=ICE vehicles caught fire substantially,a 1,000 will catch fire.

This study came out March 2023, updated in April, there's a lot of info. It was put out by someone called AutoinsuranceEZ, using data collected fron NTSB and BTS.

It's information I used while talking about establishing rules about ev's in my condo complex.

As a general observation about the negative posts in this thread, much of the fears and excuses are simply outdated. 5years ago, 3 years ago, and again 18 months ago i passed on going ev, because of, well, many issues. One major point was there were virtually NO charging points in the upper peninsula of Michigan. Now, I can easily tour the UP with my new Tesla M3P. There are superchargers as well as charging points all the way up to Copper Harbor. Chances are good I'll never take the Tesla, I'll take the Jeep for exploration purposes, but NOT range or charging point issues. An electric Jeep could be a great exploration vehicle, especially because the charging network will have another 5 years to develop further before it's introduced.

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[FreedomFur]

Im still wildly against most scenarios with an EV vehicle. In no particular order…

1.) Precious mineral mining is largely controlled by foreign powers. Its like we didn’t learn anything through the critical supply chain issues that COV19 revealed.

2.) The tech isn’t there yet, particularly for cold weather. I have family who commute regularly from Boston to Philly. They have to stop and add an hour or two to charge on the way with new EV vehicles.

3.) The infrastructure isn’t there for chargers.

4.) When the ability to travel can mean the difference between life and death (wild fires, hurricanes, other natural disasters), you can’t rely on the grid being up and you get way farther with a gas vehicle that has a few extra gas tanks.

5.) The tech is way more complicated to repair yourself. Again, with supply chain issues or if you want the ability to be independent with your repairs, this is an issue.

I think the push to EV vehicles is a great option if you want a commuter option around town, assuming you can morally live with #1 above.

 

[Gossamer]

On #1, you mean, like, stainless steel?

 

[NWJeepr]

I firmly believe both the tech and infrastructure will get there, and I appreciate efforts at the legislative level to encourage manufacturing and component sourcing domestically. There's lots of EV thing-mobiles out there so I'm glad Jeep is charging (!) forward to be the #1 purpose-built for off-road EV manufacturer.

 

[FreedomFur]

On #1, you mean, like, stainless steel?

I am talking about lithium and other components that go into batteries. But yes that too!

 

[NWJeepr]

I am talking about lithium and other components that go into batteries. But yes that too!

An honest question: Is lithium mining any worse that drilling for oil?

The US sits on huge lithium reserves, we just don't have wide-scale processing facilities to extract it from other minerals. So, yes, while I share both environmental and political concerns about producing battery materials, in general, I think it's important to compare that to the current practices of oil/fuel production just to get cars down the road, today. Which one also has the negative downside of affecting air quality, post-production?

 

[FreedomFur]

An honest question: Is lithium mining any worse that drilling for oil?

The US sits on huge lithium reserves, we just don't have wide-scale processing facilities to extract it from other minerals. So, yes, while I share both environmental and political concerns about producing battery materials, in general, I think it's important to compare that to the current practices of oil/fuel production just to get cars down the road, today. Which one also has the negative downside of affecting air quality, post-production?

I am honestly not sure that the drilling process is any different. My concern lies more with the reliance on foreign .gov who are actively working to undermine us. The US has the ability to manufacture and produce its own oil. If we want to do the same with precious minerals we will need to basically strip mine some very large national and state forests/parks. If that is something we are willing to do (not that I am encouraging that), then my outlook on that point would shift.

 

[av8or]

National and state forests and parks is where the lithium is hiding?

 

[Zandcwhite]

As I have stated before, the EV batteries have not been tested extensively(or certified) for off road use. Can these batteries take the physical abuse that these vehicles take on a trail? We don’t know…

Who certifies anything for off road use? That's not a thing. Are you honestly arguing that you're wheeling harder than crash testing at freeway speeds? Rivian and hummer both use off roading in their ads, so I'd assume they've been tested there? Either way it's irrelevant, as yes you'll take infinitely more bumps and scrapes off road than on, but unless you're a full on rock racer it will never be anywhere near the impact of surface street collisions let alone offset crash testing at speed. That's just not reality. Sure if you drive it off a cliff, you might have a potential fire hazard, but I'm guessing that's the least of your worries at that point? Tens of thousands of us have been wheeling 8+ rated trails with that big etorque battery just mounted below the existing ICE wrangler body and I've yet to hear of a single failure of any kind let alone a fire? I've seen leaky fuel lines and punctured fuel tanks on the trail numerous times.

 

[av8or]

Who certifies anything for off road use? That's not a thing. Are you honestly arguing that you're wheeling harder than crash testing at freeway speeds? Rivian and hummer both use off roading in their ads, so I'd assume they've been tested there? Either way it's irrelevant, as yes you'll take infinitely more bumps and scrapes off road than on, but unless you're a full on rock racer it will never be anywhere near the impact of surface street collisions let alone offset crash testing at speed. That's just not reality. Sure if you drive it off a cliff, you might have a potential fire hazard, but I'm guessing that's the least of your worries at that point? Tens of thousands of us have been wheeling 8+ rated trails with that big etorque battery just mounted below the existing ICE wrangler body and I've yet to hear of a single failure of any kind let alone a fire? I've seen leaky fuel lines and punctured fuel tanks on the trail numerous times.

I spent 5 hours off-roading yesterday in a Rivian and sorry to say nothing burned, just had fun. BTW 9:30 am-4:30 pm about 60 miles hwy to the trails then 45 miles of trails only used 42% of the battery.

 

[Dusty Dude]

Who certifies anything for off road use? That's not a thing. Are you honestly arguing that you're wheeling harder than crash testing at freeway speeds? Rivian and hummer both use off roading in their ads, so I'd assume they've been tested there? Either way it's irrelevant, as yes you'll take infinitely more bumps and scrapes off road than on, but unless you're a full on rock racer it will never be anywhere near the impact of surface street collisions let alone offset crash testing at speed. That's just not reality. Sure if you drive it off a cliff, you might have a potential fire hazard, but I'm guessing that's the least of your worries at that point? Tens of thousands of us have been wheeling 8+ rated trails with that big etorque battery just mounted below the existing ICE wrangler body and I've yet to hear of a single failure of any kind let alone a fire? I've seen leaky fuel lines and punctured fuel tanks on the trail numerous times.

You went to a ridiculous extreme to argue a point. Crash testing is done for occupant survival/injury, not vehicle integrity. You’re going to tell me that Rivian and Hummer are completely honest in their corporate advertising? So if I drink a light beer, I’m going to suddenly be surrounded by gorgeous women? I would be willing to bet Rivian and Hummer used a test track on their proving grounds that isn’t anywhere near as difficult as a 5 rated trail, much less an 8+ trail. Do they even have rocks on their test tracks? I would argue that Rivian might not have even been tested off road much at all, otherwise they wouldn’t have designed the body panels the way they did.

A couple of years ago, Boeing had a major battery issue. Those batteries systems were tested to a much higher standard than the auto industry uses. Yet they not only failed in everyday use, they started on fire enough times that the entire fleet was grounded. That’s the reality I’m talking about.

Most ICE fires are older, higher mileage vehicles that are well beyond the warranty period. They aren’t from a vehicle that has been driven for 4 months with about 10k miles on it.

EV’s to this point have been primarily designed for on road use. Even ETorque was designed for CAFE standards, not off roading. The same could be said for the 4XE. The batteries, electrical connections, and propulsion systems of most EV’s were not tested to handle the extra stresses, vibrations, and hard shocks that off roading readily provides for any length of time. The extra cost wouldn’t be justified for the few that don’t just go to the mall.

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