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Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) on 2018-2020 JL Manuals [overheating clutch pressure plate]

melendez69

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I think "voluntary" recall in this sense doesn't mean it's voluntary to us as consumers. It means FCA is doing the recall on their own volition, not being forced to by the NHTSA.
I understand 'voluntary' in regards to this recall... which is why I used it in quotes. ;)
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trat73

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Couple questions for you guys and gals that have more experience with this stuff. I've had he 1st clutch recall done and was told that it didn't need to be replaced. I have 8,000 miles on it now, but lets say in another 20-30k miles it fails. Will I be told it's not covered? (I know regularly a clutch is not covered by any warranty). Also, will an aftermarket clutch fix the whole issue or is this something that's going to be in the back of my head for the life of my Jeep? I love a manual trans and don't really have the money to trade it in for an auto, but peace of mind has no price tag.
Also, I've been driving manuals my whole life and this clutch is like no other in how inconsistent it feels. Thanks for your help and thoughts!
 

DanW

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Couple questions for you guys and gals that have more experience with this stuff. I've had he 1st clutch recall done and was told that it didn't need to be replaced. I have 8,000 miles on it now, but lets say in another 20-30k miles it fails. Will I be told it's not covered? (I know regularly a clutch is not covered by any warranty). Also, will an aftermarket clutch fix the whole issue or is this something that's going to be in the back of my head for the life of my Jeep? I love a manual trans and don't really have the money to trade it in for an auto, but peace of mind has no price tag.
Also, I've been driving manuals my whole life and this clutch is like no other in how inconsistent it feels. Thanks for your help and thoughts!
Depends. But they may be owning clutches after this next recall, so wait and see. If at all related to the issue, then you'd have a case, but nobody really knows until someone has a test case. But I think if you get to 38k and wear out a clutch but have no evidence of overheating, you'd be on the hook for the replacement.

Now some good news. I've got 41k on mine and drove it this morning. It was perfect. So much so that I really don't want anyone's grubby hands on it. And my Jeep gets off-road a lot and pulls a boat in the summer. So don't let the worry eat you alive.

And think of this. If your clutch wears out early and you have to pay, that would be the time to get an aftermarket upgrade. Even after that expense, you will still have paid less than you would have shelled out for an auto. That's not the best comfort in the world, but it's not terrible, either.
 

Toycrusher

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Couple questions for you guys and gals that have more experience with this stuff. I've had he 1st clutch recall done and was told that it didn't need to be replaced. I have 8,000 miles on it now, but lets say in another 20-30k miles it fails. Will I be told it's not covered? (I know regularly a clutch is not covered by any warranty). Also, will an aftermarket clutch fix the whole issue or is this something that's going to be in the back of my head for the life of my Jeep? I love a manual trans and don't really have the money to trade it in for an auto, but peace of mind has no price tag.
Also, I've been driving manuals my whole life and this clutch is like no other in how inconsistent it feels. Thanks for your help and thoughts!
+1 to DanW

And if you do go aftermarket, you will eliminate the part that has failed which will give you the peace of mind you desire
 

neil

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It’s not a class action against a clutch replacement we’re all annoyed with. I think most of us would change the clutch at our own expense if need be. We love our Jeeps that much.
It’s this reduction of torque we’re all pissed about. Do you want less torque when your towing or off roading through a mud ditch?
Nope -I take the non-dealer pill
 

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Goosed

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Couple questions for you guys and gals that have more experience with this stuff. I've had he 1st clutch recall done and was told that it didn't need to be replaced. I have 8,000 miles on it now, but lets say in another 20-30k miles it fails. Will I be told it's not covered? (I know regularly a clutch is not covered by any warranty). Also, will an aftermarket clutch fix the whole issue or is this something that's going to be in the back of my head for the life of my Jeep? I love a manual trans and don't really have the money to trade it in for an auto, but peace of mind has no price tag.
Also, I've been driving manuals my whole life and this clutch is like no other in how inconsistent it feels. Thanks for your help and thoughts!
Clutch warranty is 12k miles regardless of any factors. Which sux but it is a wear part.
 

beachbumm78

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42k 14mo old. I had the “cover” installed with the first recall. They didn’t find anything they said. All was good. Had my master cylinder go out and replaced a few months ago. Drive off road fairly often. Highway at all speeds and variety of shifting. Been just fine. Knocking on wood it stays that way. Almost afraid to read this thread in case I jinx myself. HAha
 

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Morning, Steve! What would a "voluntary" recall have to do with a safety/emissions inspection? NYS inspections, like most/all, cover roadworthiness, operating condition, maintenance, safety, and emissions. There's nothing in the NYS DMV inspection program about recalls. I'm from NY and have never had a recall affect inspection.

The inspection station can't differentiate between intentionally avoiding a recall vs. not being able to satisfy it since you're at the mercy of a dealer & parts availability. A safety & emissions inspection covers what's within your immediate control.

A recall ain't like having a bald tire. A tire can be replaced within minutes, but recalls can take months/years.
Hi Marc, I’m only stating my own experience. When I went during the summer for my inspection I was standing right next to the tech as he was putting information into the inspection machine. He said to me “there’s a recall on this Jeep “! I still hadn’t gone for the clutch test or sleeve installment. He didn’t bring it up again and did pass me. I swear to you, he brought the subject up to me.
As far as “voluntary” recall, I’m just going by other posters that have said it’s not voluntary for us. It’s voluntary for the dealership’s now.
Trust me, I am not at all interested in lowering my engines torque at anytime. If it is voluntary then I’ll never do it. My plan would be to drive my Jeep until the day this clutch wears out. By then my warranty will be long over. At this point I’d buy the best clutch I can get.
P.S. I’ve been keeping an eye on the Centerforce pro’s and cons and read all your posts about it.
Stay safe buddy.
 
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Capricorn

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If someone were to buy a brand new manual JL in 2021, would it come from the factory with the reduced torque?
 

Bejer

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If someone were to buy a brand new manual JL in 2021, would it come from the factory with the reduced torque?
Yes, any new manual sold from this point forward will have the recall done. I’m pretty sure even ones on dealer lots cannot be sold until they’re death flashed.
 

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Torero

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My Jeep just clocked 50K miles. No issue whatsoever with the clutch.
Most people here claim years of experience with manual transmission and a good number of people complain about the clutch on their Jeeps feeling funny, making noises, too soft, and list goes on. Mine feels great. I wouldn’t want it any different. It passed the previous recalled (the fix was a joke) with flying colors.
My point is, maybe there is a real issue in quality control on the clutch manufacturer and there all sorts out there. I got lucky.
 

sf5211

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My Jeep just clocked 50K miles. No issue whatsoever with the clutch.
Most people here claim years of experience with manual transmission and a good number of people complain about the clutch on their Jeeps feeling funny, making noises, too soft, and list goes on. Mine feels great. I wouldn’t want it any different. It passed the previous recalled (the fix was a joke) with flying colors.
My point is, maybe there is a real issue in quality control on the clutch manufacturer and there all sorts out there. I got lucky.
Well said J. I don’t beat my Jeep up. Even when I go off road I use 4low, 1st gear, take my time and enjoy the country side. I’ve never slipped or smelled my clutch. I don’t believe mine will ever be an issue.
I’m not saying everybody that has a slipping clutch is a bad driver. You’re right maybe we just got lucky with ours. I will say though that not every manual driver is a good driver.
If you ever read “The Clutch Gang” thread, there are some people in there that should just buy automatic Jeep’s. I swear there’s guys in that room that post: “I always start out in 2nd gear”, “ I just use 1st, 3rd and 5th gear”, “I use 6th gear while driving 45mph because it saves gas”.
Of course your clutch is gonna slip if you’re in too high of a gear.
I believe there’s good drivers with bad clutches but I’m sure there’s a few bad drivers with good clutches too..
 

DanW

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Guys, we're all still operating on assumptions. The worst case scenario is choosing which NHTSA document to believe. The fact they describe two entirely different ways the PCM flash would work should be enough to say wait and see.

One document says the engine power is not reduced unless a high temp condition is present. The other just says engine power is reduced. And we've chosen to believe the later because we can't figure out how temperature would be detected. Even though the amount of power that would have to be reduced to stop the friction would literally require shutting off the Jeep, or close to it. And there are always possibilities as to how they could detect a problem, including installing a temp sensor, which would be a simple procedure. I've confirmed that with an engineer, who, btw, is NOT connected in any way to FCA.

We're also assuming the clutch and plate are the cause. I think there was quite a bit of information that led to the previous recall that said they were involved in the effect and were downstream of the cause. Could they be improved? Probably very much so. But a new clutc/pressure plate will STILL heat up if the problem is causing them not to completely disengage under certain conditions. And I seriously doubt they've found some space aged pressure plate material that can withstand 1100 degrees without a problem for a price most can afford. That's all just my 2 cents, and again, so nobody whines about it, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER.

So before declaring that the engine has reduced power under normal conditions has no basis in fact at this point. We simply do not know. It is only a reaction to a document written by a government bureaucrat. And it ignores another government document that was also written by a bureaucrat. BUT, is more specific than the other.

I think the wise thing to do, and I had to do this, too, is to wait and see. At this point, I choose to believe that the power reduction will happen only when temps rise. And there is just as much evidence of that from NHTSA than evidence of a permanent, constant reduction in power. So we're back to choosing which document to believe.

I also can't help but believe that the few Jeeps that suffered catastrophic failure gave some feel, noise, or smell that gave plenty of warning but were ignored or not understood by the drivers. I've smelled burnt clutches that were far worse and more intense than the bathroom at Skyline Chili. But no way they were anywhere near 1,100 degrees. So I'm convinced mine does not and has not had the problem. The clutch wear test alone shows it didn't have it. That was at 34,500 miles, which was WELL past where the ones with catastrophic failures were, according to what I've read.

I hate to bug him, but I've asked a former FCA/Pentaster engineer for input on this. (different guy than I mentioned earier in this post.) Hopefully either he can shed some light or he can talk to someone in the loop at FCA who can chime in, if permitted. One of the several questions I asked was if it is possible to detect temperature or at least detect a significant rise in temperature in the clutch area. He is VERY busy with his company and sometimes takes up to a couple weeks to get back, but I'll let everyone know if he has any insight into it, or not. I did provide him with the text of both NHTSA documents.
 
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DanW

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If someone were to buy a brand new manual JL in 2021, would it come from the factory with the reduced torque?
Yes, unless it was already built. But even then, by the time you get it, it will have the reflash. It is illegal for them to sell a vehicle with an open recall like this. So one way or another, anyone buying one brand new won't get it until the flash.

But we still don't know the parameters of the reduced torque. Is it permanent and all the time, or is it only under certain conditions, such as when temps get critical in the clutch area, or is it only at WOT? Lots of debate on it, but no matter what anyone says or thinks, and no matter their resume, nobody but FCA knows at this moment. NHTSA might know, but they clearly don't know enough to communicate it precisely or at least consistently.

Ultimately, when mine goes in for the recall, if it must, I will put mine on my nephew's dyno before it goes in, to get a baseline. I'll then do it afterward and he will give it a thoroughly professional analysis.. Then we'll know exactly what they've done.
 

Toycrusher

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My Jeep just clocked 50K miles. No issue whatsoever with the clutch.
Most people here claim years of experience with manual transmission and a good number of people complain about the clutch on their Jeeps feeling funny, making noises, too soft, and list goes on. Mine feels great. I wouldn’t want it any different. It passed the previous recalled (the fix was a joke) with flying colors.
My point is, maybe there is a real issue in quality control on the clutch manufacturer and there all sorts out there. I got lucky.
Well said.
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