Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) on 2018-2020 JL Manuals [overheating clutch pressure plate]

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Little concerned about this and my Jeep order. I will be staying tuned to this one!

First I didn't like how big the Jeep has gotten since my last Wrangler, a TJ. Delt with it.

Didn't like how much computer control there is now. Delt with it.

Didn't like the dual door group requires power windows and locks (which I didn't want/know at order. Honestly, is it really important to have power locks on HALF doors.... ) Delt with it.

Now more clutch issues and possibly detuning the engine?

I'm ok with new cars having issues that will be fixed properly, but not with band aid fixes of blanket detuning. Depending on how this detuning is done; I don't know I want to deal with that.

Depending on what the fix is, the only way to tell Jeep that it's not OK is if people stop buying them. Not that I'm sure Jeep cares about the few manuals they sell a year anyways.

Maybe I'm overthinking this. Or maybe I just need to walk away and look for clean used TJ....

Sponsored

 

[neil]

way I think it. We can speculate the fix all we want like the 392 price. 40K manuals sold +, and a pretty good rep of them on the forums, youtube, etc. I prob know a half dozen JL manuals that are not on this forum....anyway.

The clutch has not really been a huge problem under normal operation. If so, we would prob see more forum users randomly disappearing, or starting 200 page threads about how the jeep almost killed em (has happened once that i've read). And we would sure be hearing about it on the gram or tube.

I am going to speculate that this is not as big as it sounds. I will continue to worry about the 18wheeler that did not look and came over on me yesterday vs this.

Maybe I am terribly wrong and they are all ticking time bombs?I doubt it. I will continue waving.

 

[beaups]

way I think it. We can speculate the fix all we want like the 392 price. 40K manuals sold +, and a pretty good rep of them on the forums, youtube, etc. I prob know a half dozen JL manuals that are not on this forum....anyway.

The clutch has not really been a huge problem under normal operation. If so, we would prob see more forum users randomly disappearing, or starting 200 page threads about how the jeep almost killed em (has happened once that i've read). And we would sure be hearing about it on the gram or tube.

I am going to speculate that this is not as big as it sounds. I will continue to worry about the 18wheeler that did not look and came over on me yesterday vs this.

Maybe I am terribly wrong and they are all ticking time bombs?I doubt it. I will continue waving.

My fear is the cure is worse than the disease.

 

[Spaffy]

Delts? That's my stomach, right? Yeah, my Delts is totally huge!

 

[neil]

My fear is the cure is worse than the disease.

or the 2nd derivative of the cure (worry about unknown) is worse than the disease.

but yeah....i've reserved ALL the worry through the rest of the weekend for getting a take off for a leaking rear shock on before I trash a tire and potting my rear locker.

I thought about this last night. We have 2 JLUR. and 2 older dependable cars in the garage with nearly 700K combined on them. We are original owners of the cars and NEITHER has ever been to a dealer in 30 car years combined. Point is, one is a fickle bitch diesel. Pretty sure a jeep clutch is the least of my problems.

When something starts to go south, I replace it. Simple. I don't let engineers do it ffs, and I sure don't let service or jiffy lube touch it. Get a mechanic who charges time and materials....he sure as f is not going to do work on your vehicle that your not asking for.

I've got a simple workaround for those worried about the long-term reliability of their manual JL. Pay it off, buy 1-tons, new tranny and engine. Fixed. Your now a long-term jeep owner like jeep owners of the past.....

Going to a dealer for service is kinda like an HMO clinic....just sayin. your going to get a bunch of shit done you did not ask for cause they can bill it you know, and your OG problem will usually not be addresses.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

I only have a couple of thousand miles on my 2020, but wouldn't you know if the clutch is slipping would that not be the reason for heating up? Or would it slip during road speed and not notice it is heating up until to late? I realize no one has the answers for the recall I just didn't understand where the heat could come from.

Would think the hardcore off road folks on here would be putting the most strain on the clutch all the time.

 

[ChattVol]

I only have a couple of thousand miles on my 2020, but wouldn't you know if the clutch is slipping would that not be the reason for heating up? Or would it slip during road speed and not notice it is heating up until to late? I realize no one has the answers for the recall I just didn't understand where the heat could come from.

Would think the hardcore off road folks on here would be putting the most strain on the clutch all the time.

I'm not hardcore...but did wheel my jlu 1-2 times a month and the clutch started slipping on hills and reversing at 25k miles. It flunked the previous clutch recall test at 27k miles and dealer kept it for 2 weeks to replace the clutch.

 

[eck]

But, it would be very easy to drill and tap a hole in the bell housing and insert a simple temp sensor, run the wire a short distance, and connect it to the PCM. We don't have any info on that being a part of the solution from NHTSA, so I'm not saying that's a part of it, but it would be easy to do. Then the reprogram would include simple code to read data from the sensor and trigger a limp home mode, which is likely already in the engine program for other events, anyway.

That assumes there are spare pin(s) available on the PCM that are capable of reading the sensor input. I have no idea what the pinout is and if anything is usable. Even if it's feasible, It would also mean the same service departments who are unable to change oil correctly are going to be on the hook for modifying the factory harness to accomodate the new inputs. That would terrify me.

My heart desperately wants a manual, but my brain is extremely happy to have bought the 8sp auto right about now. I really feel for you guys, this sucks.

 

[JeepCares]

Here is the document where it states that the detune occurs when the temps rise to a danger point:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCLRPT-21V028-2204.PDF

So there seems to be a discrepancy between this NHTSA document and what was posted earlier that appears to be from FCA. (Or was it?)

So my question remains. Is the detune full time, even if there is no problem in the clutch/transmission, or does it kick in when the temps rise to a danger point? I find the former to be an unacceptable solution. However, I can live with and would be fine with the latter.

@JeepCares, can you find out how the heck this new solution is supposed to work?

I know there were a couple questions on this thread about what the fix is. I don't have much, but this is what I do know:
In rare occurrences, an overheated manual transmission clutch pressure plate may fracture or break. The remedy is a software change that will reduce the amount of power allowed to the clutch when the vehicle is improperly launched in higher gears. The voluntary safety recall to reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) software to reduce engine torque capability when clutch assembly temperatures rise to a level that may damage the inner pressure plate.

It's not much, I know. If more information becomes available, I will share it.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares

 

[JeepCares]

This whole thread is stressful - coming from a guy waiting on his 6-speed to be delivered...

Hi, the recall will be addressed before you take delivery of the vehicle if that helps at all.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares

 

[Bejer]

I know there were a couple questions on this thread about what the fix is. I don't have much, but this is what I do know:
In rare occurrences, an overheated manual transmission clutch pressure plate may fracture or break. The remedy is a software change that will reduce the amount of power allowed to the clutch when the vehicle is improperly launched in higher gears. The voluntary safety recall to reprogram the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) software to reduce engine torque capability when clutch assembly temperatures rise to a level that may damage the inner pressure plate.

It's not much, I know. If more information becomes available, I will share it.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares

So if I read this right, there would be absolutely no difference in power output under normal circumstances?

 

[mgroeger]

So if I read this right, there would be absolutely no difference in power output under normal circumstances?

I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn if you're interested.

 

[Bejer]

I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn if you're interested.

You notice the deafening silence from @JeepCares in response to that question...

 

[DanW]

I agree but the real fix would be to put a proper clutch assembly in that doesn't slip when fully engaged, but that's probably too hard and expensive so they'll just cripple us instead. Slipping getting off the line and between gears isn't going to overheat anything, it's high-friction (fully engaged) slipping that will cause the temps to go crazy and that type of slipping should never happen in the first case. Too early to tell but this plan just feels all wrong...

That assumes there are spare pin(s) available on the PCM that are capable of reading the sensor input. I have no idea what the pinout is and if anything is usable. Even if it's feasible, It would also mean the same service departments who are unable to change oil correctly are going to be on the hook for modifying the factory harness to accomodate the new inputs. That would terrify me.

My heart desperately wants a manual, but my brain is extremely happy to have bought the 8sp auto right about now. I really feel for you guys, this sucks.

There almost certainly are, or an adapter can be made to dual-purpose an input. Not hard at all.

The techs that do these fixes are NOT the same guys doing oil changes. You don't put an expensive certified tech on a job that only requires a guy making $10 an hour. But like anyone, there are good ones and incompetent ones. Same with doctors. Someone will have to fix it. But a typical FCA certified tech would handle that kind of job with ease. Much easier than replacing a clutch assembly. Even I could do it. Unbox the parts, read the directions, drill, tap, install, run the wire, unplug, plug the adapter, plug both wires back in, flash the PCM, run a test to confirm function. Done. And recalls come with very detailed and specific directions. By the time they get to yours or mine, they've probably done a few already. They also have access to technical help directly from FCA.

Don't feel for us until we know the actual, real solution. If it affects drivability, then we'll need a shoulder to cry on before trading it in. If not, I'm as happy as I was before I read about this.

I'm optimistic that the more descriptive NHSTA description is closer to the real solution than the more vague one. I hope that is the case. No point in whining about it.

 

[DanW]

You notice the deafening silence from @JeepCares in response to that question...

What? Why would they respond to something like that, which isn't even a question?

Sponsored