Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) on 2018-2020 JL Manuals [overheating clutch pressure plate]

[nunziotocci]

Um, no it doesn't. The computer is not/can not actuate our clutches.

Source? Alternative explanation?

When you have an automatic transmission, the hardware and software are capable of moving the clutch. Why not a manual? I know it's stupid, but this is FCA we are talking about here.

Again, I am not a mechanic. I'm only giving my observations.

You have a problem with your rig.

Don't we all at this point?

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[brbutler]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a mechanic, I am a software engineer. I also haven't spoken to any Jeep/FCA reps about this (and won't until I can schedule an appointment).

I have a theory that the cause is the "fake shifting" that the computer does. I don't know what the actual name is, but this is what I call it when the computer pulls out the clutch to let the engine rev and then puts in back in. When an automatic does this, it usually shifts down at the same time, hence "fake shift".

The reason I suspect this is that occasionally I get a grinding noise when it does this. I think this is causing the clutch plate to get smoother over time until a catastrophic failure to engage causes too much scraping/heat and you get either broken bits or molten metal flying at your transmission housing. In one of the linked story threads ("Fire as a result of transmission failure"), he said that the fire started going at ~30mph in third gear and then started going up an incline. This is about the conditions that I get these "fake shifts".

The repair for this would entail everybody getting a new clutch because, as said earlier, it is probably difficult to tell by looking at it if it is not needed. The fix going forward will likely by the removal of "fake shifting" from the software.

Until I have the fix performed, I am going to be driving like a gentleman and refraining from driving people who need help getting out.

What is this "fake shifting"? The clutch is a mechanical device actuated by hydraulics. As far as I know, there is no electronic/ECU control of clutch engagement/disengagement If you experiencing an increase in RPMs while driving along with your foot off the clutch, it is most likely the clutch slipping due to insufficient clamping pressure of the pressure plate. This is what this issue is all about. The slipping causes overheating of the components, and ultimately metal fatigue and moving parts breaking apart, fracturing the bell housing, and if truly unlucky, shrapnel from that rupturing fuel lines or other components containing flammable liquid - causing fire.

If you clutch is slipping, I would say you are a prime candidate for this failure to occur. So far (10k miles), I have not experienced any clutch slipping and/or burning smells.

 

[ChattVol]

lol of course they won't... but it's fun to dream That heavier flywheel in that centerforce combo sounds great.

Yeah...it sounds great... but not for close to $3k. I'd strongly look at it when the stock clutch needs a replacement.

 

[Jeep-Noob]

This thread is slowly confirming that the issue is owners who have no idea how a manual operates. If you have no idea how things work, you will be completely unaware you are abusing it to the point of catastrophic failure.

FCA may have had a quality problem that caused clutch slippage, but the owners were not even aware the slippage was a problem.

Sad.

 

[nunziotocci]

What is this "fake shifting"? The clutch is a mechanical device actuated by hydraulics. As far as I know, there is no electronic/ECU control of clutch engagement/disengagement If you experiencing an increase in RPMs while driving along with your foot off the clutch, it is most likely the clutch slipping due to insufficient clamping pressure of the pressure plate. This is what this issue is all about. The slipping causes overheating of the components, and ultimately metal fatigue and moving parts breaking apart, fracturing the bell housing, and if truly unlucky, shrapnel from that rupturing fuel lines or other components containing flammable liquid - causing fire.

If you clutch is slipping, I would say you are a prime candidate for this failure to occur. So far (10k miles), I have not experienced any clutch slipping and/or burning smells.

I got burning smells a couple of times in the first month or two, but I was still learning how to drive a manual at that point and I knew that I wasn't doing it right. I have about 11K miles and the slipping started at about 9K. I've been driving a lot these past couple of months.

Given what people have said in response to my theory, I am less sure of it. I will be watching this situation closely until it is resolved. I will be very interested to learn the true cause.

This thread is slowly confirming that the issue is owners who have no idea how a manual operates. If you have no idea how things work, you will be completely unaware you are abusing it to the point of catastrophic failure.

FCA may have had a quality problem that caused clutch slippage, but the owners were not even aware the slippage was a problem.

Sad.

I know that the grinding is a problem, I just don't have a way to reliably reproduce it so I haven't taken my Jeep in. Even if I could reproduce it, it doesn't sound like the dealer would let me demonstrate it.

 

[nunziotocci]

Another reason I suspected the computer: it happens in cruise control when pressing "set +" a couple of times. It accelerates a bit, then cancels cruise control as if I touched the clutch. I see now that if it detected a slip or a loss of propulsion it would still cancel cruise control.

Just goes to show you: as soon as you post your theory on the internet, you look like a dumbass.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Source? Alternative explanation?

When you have an automatic transmission, the hardware and software are capable of moving the clutch. Why not a manual? I know it's stupid, but this is FCA we are talking about here.

Again, I am not a mechanic. I'm only giving my observations.

I think you are describing "rev hang." The ECU is absolutely not operating your clutch, which is mechanical. You should not have any grinding, period. Sounds like you have an issue above and beyond this recall, and I'd get that checked out before they're flooded with recall work.

See: http://www.revhang.altervista.org/

Also, "stupid FCA" has nothing to do with the Aisin transmission in our Jeeps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I'm curious why FCA dropped the ball on this when the older ones had no issues

How did FCA drop the ball, exactly? By older I assume you mean the JK?

Jeep replaced an antiquated 3rd party manual transmission with a more modern, and by all accounts better, 3rd party one. Check out the AL6, here: https://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/products/drivetrain/lineup/mt.html

Recalls happen. I'd rather have this issue than be in a Toyota whose fuel pump may die at any moment. https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...mry-highlander-recalled-fuel-pump/4957929002/

Look at Jay's post. The number of reported occurrences out of 33,000 is miniscule. Only one minor injury reported. If folks want to panic, go turn on the news.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

How did FCA drop the ball, exactly? By older I assume you mean the JK?

Jeep replaced an antiquated 3rd party manual transmission with a more modern, and by all accounts better, 3rd party one. Check out the AL6, here: https://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/products/drivetrain/lineup/mt.html

Recalls happen. I'd rather have this issue than be in a Toyota whose fuel pump may die at any moment. https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...mry-highlander-recalled-fuel-pump/4957929002/

Look at Jay's post. The number of reported occurrences out of 33,000 is miniscule. Only one minor injury reported. If folks want to panic, go turn on the news.

News always makes you panic, and wasn't aware of the JK issues as well.

Every car has issues, just what can you do vs what can the manufacturer do to fix them?

 

[nunziotocci]

I think you are describing "rev hang." The ECU is absolutely not operating your clutch, which is mechanical. You should not have any grinding, period. Sounds like you have an issue above and beyond this recall, and I'd get that checked out before they're flooded with recall work.

See: http://www.revhang.altervista.org/

Also, "stupid FCA" has nothing to do with the Aisin transmission in our Jeeps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions

The rev hang applies to my Jeep, but I don't think it is my issue.

I feel a slight decline in propulsion while the RPM goes up, then I feel an increase in propulsion and the RPM levels off.

Maayybee it is rev hang, but all the same I will have it looked at soon.

Out of curiosity, is there something like QREVS available for the JL?

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Out of curiosity, is there something like QREVS available for the JL?

There are not a lot of tuning options out for the JL, yet. The rev hang doesn't bother me at all; it's not s ports car. I'd also never roll the dice on a tuner for such a new platform, especially when I'm still under warranty and making payments.

See https://www.quadratec.com/vehicle/jeep-wrangler-jl-parts/engine-fuel-system/engine-tuning

(Note that many of the "tuners" listed are not tuners at all, but programmers - e.g. Tazer and Flashcal)

 

[beaups]

The rev hang applies to my Jeep, but I don't think it is my issue.

I feel a slight decline in propulsion while the RPM goes up, then I feel an increase in propulsion and the RPM levels off.

Maayybee it is rev hang, but all the same I will have it looked at soon.

Out of curiosity, is there something like QREVS available for the JL?

That sounds like your clutch is slipping = big problem. We don't have a computer actuated clutch, although there is a sensor so that the computer knows when *you* are depressing the clutch. It's used for things like cruise control, engine start interlock, etc. If your RPMs are changing with throttle input independent of vehicle speed with the clutch out == mechanical issue. And it very well could be the issue this recall is all about.

 

[nunziotocci]

There are not a lot of tuning options out for the JL, yet. The rev hang doesn't bother me at all; it's not s ports car. I'd also never roll the dice on a tuner for such a new platform, especially when I'm still under warranty and making payments.

See https://www.quadratec.com/vehicle/jeep-wrangler-jl-parts/engine-fuel-system/engine-tuning

(Note that many of the "tuners" listed are not tuners at all, but programmers - e.g. Tazer and Flashcal)

Yeah, I feel the same way. I just prefer a little more responsiveness. I originally learned stick on my Father's 2006 Mustang (now sold to my brother). Now, that is a sweet car.

 

[nunziotocci]

That sounds like your clutch is slipping = big problem. We don't have a computer actuated clutch, although there is a sensor so that the computer knows when *you* are depressing the clutch. It's used for things like cruise control, engine start interlock, etc. If your RPMs are changing with throttle input independent of vehicle speed with the clutch out == mechanical issue. And it very well could be the issue this recall is all about.

I will take it in this weekend. Should I take it to the dealer or a third party?

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I got burning smells a couple of times in the first month or two, but I was still learning how to drive a manual at that point and I knew that I wasn't doing it right.

Eh, depending on just how badly you have been riding your clutch, you could have worn it out (or close to it), already. I mean, you'd have to be realllly rough on it to kill it in 11,000 miles, but it's not impossible. I'd go have it checked out. If you have a buddy who grew up on manuals, have them critique your driving.

Here's a clutch with only 18,000 miles on it. :-D

https://imgur.com/KPy806I

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