Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) on 2018-2020 JL Manuals [overheating clutch pressure plate]

fczabala

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@Toycrusher the fires/failures are not "completely" operator error but they played a part in them

you were mistaken when you said "air in the hydraulic clutch system DOES NOT result in clutch
slippage"

as you can see in the video, air in the system results in less pressure which results in the clutch not
releasing completely when pressed down and this results in slippage

now how long the clutch slips depends on the operator, that is where the operator plays a part

I agree the clutch should've been made stronger but at the end of the day, the clutch system
designed for this jeep works "under normal conditions" as per JeepCares





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Toycrusher

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Here is another interesting question, and maybe the answer will tell us if FCA acknowledges the defect: When the condition is sensed by the PCM, will it throw a "service engine soon" warning to the driver?
Well, the only repair for a slipping clutch is replacement. I guess it will give you enough power to limp to the nearest repair shop?
 

Toycrusher

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@Toycrusher the fires/failures are not "completely" operator error but they played a part in them

you were mistaken when you said "air in the hydraulic clutch system DOES NOT result in clutch
slippage"

as you can see in the video, air in the system results in less pressure which results in the clutch not
releasing completely when pressed down and this results in slippage

now how long the clutch slips depends on the operator, that is where the operator plays a part

I agree the clutch should've been made stronger but at the end of the day, the clutch system
designed for this jeep works "under normal conditions" as per JeepCares
As I mentioned, you would have to ignore the gear grinding and leave your clutch foot down while simultaneously holding down the gas and brakes to cause any real damage
 

EMS

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@Toycrusher the fires/failures are not "completely" operator error but they played a part in them

you were mistaken when you said "air in the hydraulic clutch system DOES NOT result in clutch
slippage"

as you can see in the video, air in the system results in less pressure which results in the clutch not
releasing completely when pressed down and this results in slippage

now how long the clutch slips depends on the operator, that is where the operator plays a part

I agree the clutch should've been made stronger but at the end of the day, the clutch system
designed for this jeep works "under normal conditions" as per JeepCares
Well, clearly that first "fix" was inadequate (bleeding/sleeve BS) or else we would not be on the 103rd page of this thread and under a second recall. It simply has to be a defect in some of the clutches and FCA is looking to limit liability. End of story.
 

fczabala

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well the 103 pages are mostly speculation lol as is the statement "it simply HAS to be a defect"

unless someone out there has proof that the clutch plate fails under normal driving conditions
no one can refute the "statements" by fca
 

JeepCares

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Thanks for the update, however I would have to point out that air in the hydraulic clutch system DOES NOT result in clutch slippage, and even at a light with the clutch held down, could only generate a minimal amount of friction related heat.
I'm not a technician, this is what was provided to me to share.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
 

EMS

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well the 103 pages are mostly speculation lol as is the statement "it simply HAS to be a defect"

unless someone out there has proof that the clutch plate fails under normal driving conditions
no one can refute the "statements" by fca
...said the attorney for FCA during the liability trial ;)
 

beaups

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well the 103 pages are mostly speculation lol as is the statement "it simply HAS to be a defect"

unless someone out there has proof that the clutch plate fails under normal driving conditions
no one can refute the "statements" by fca
It’s pretty obvious there’s a defect, a flaw, or something was under engineered. The only way for a clutch to hit the temps that FCA is describing is if it is slipping when it shouldn’t. And if is slipping when it shouldn’t, it’s defective or was unsuitably designed.

Also consider that a vehicle should not allow the user to cause a component to explode and burst into flames unless the user hits another object. No matter how horrible of a manual driver you are, it should not be possible to be so bad that you cause your Jeep to burn to the ground.

So yeah, there’s a design flaw or material defect. Or both.
 

fczabala

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It’s pretty obvious there’s a defect, a flaw, or something was under engineered. The only way for a clutch to hit the temps that FCA is describing is if it is slipping when it shouldn’t. And if is slipping when it shouldn’t, it’s defective or was unsuitably designed.

Also consider that a vehicle should not allow the user to cause a component to explode and burst into flames unless the user hits another object. No matter how horrible of a manual driver you are, it should not be possible to be so bad that you cause your Jeep to burn to the ground.

So yeah, there’s a design flaw or material defect. Or both.
I agree with you, but you are missing the "objectives" of the recalls
again, this is my personal opinion, but the way I see it is the first recall addressed the issue of the
"clutch slipping when it shouldn't" when they discovered some jeeps had air in the clutch hydraulic
system

but this second recall, all I got from the language of the recall is that fca is adding a fail-safe
maybe because like you said "a vehicle should not allow the user to cause a component to explode
and burst into flames unless the user hits another object"
 

beaups

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I agree with you, but you are missing the "objectives" of the recalls
again, this is my personal opinion, but the way I see it is the first recall addressed the issue of the
"clutch slipping when it shouldn't" when they discovered some jeeps had air in the clutch hydraulic
system

but this second recall, all I got from the language of the recall is that fca is adding a fail-safe
maybe because like you said "a vehicle should not allow the user to cause a component to explode
and burst into flames unless the user hits another object"
I’m not missing the point. If they are indeed adding a fail safe that doesn’t affect normal operation, great. But the fact they need to add this failsafe just evidences that there is a problem with the clutch design. And I’m not buying air in the lines as the root cause.
 

EMS

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I agree with you, but you are missing the "objectives" of the recalls
again, this is my personal opinion, but the way I see it is the first recall addressed the issue of the
"clutch slipping when it shouldn't" when they discovered some jeeps had air in the clutch hydraulic
system

but this second recall, all I got from the language of the recall is that fca is adding a fail-safe
maybe because like you said "a vehicle should not allow the user to cause a component to explode
and burst into flames unless the user hits another object"

I’m not missing the point. If they are indeed adding a fail safe that doesn’t affect normal operation, great. But the fact they need to add this failsafe just evidences that there is a problem with the clutch design. And I’m not buying air in the lines as the root cause.
So, if the new FW tells you your clutch is slipping, who has to pay for the new clutch? Will FCA just blame the driver or acknowledge the defect when you take it for repairs?
 

EMS

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I'm sorry, we appreciate what you do on these forums
Agreed. We now know the method of attack for the recall and that there is no temp sensor to be installed or blanket reduction in torque. Good info, thanks Kaitlin.
 

fczabala

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So, if the new FW tells you your clutch is slipping, who has to pay for the new clutch? Will FCA just blame the driver or acknowledge the defect when you take it for repairs?
that would be a discussion with the service dept (and/or your attorney if you decide to retain one)
 

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