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nomographer

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Don't get a manual just to get a manual. Get a manual if it is a good manual. The Wrangler, sadly is not and this clutch issue is just making matters worse.
It's good advice: Get the correct vehicle, all things being equal.

Happily this is still better than the automatic.
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ajkitebrder40

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It's a rotating assembly that is spinning relatively fast. The damage is cumulative due to improper design/dimensioning. Eventually it fails catastrophically.

If you think about it, most people spend 99%+ of their driving time going down the road in a gear with their foot off the clutch. And only <1% of the time actuating the clutch pedal. So statically it is more likely to fail when their foot is off the clutch and they are just motoring along.
Yeah, it was mainly the fact that the damage was mostly already done and it was just a final heat build up that caused the final failure, and/or just timing. Makes sense now.
 

IanNubbit

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Well, manual transmissions are coming to an end for most SUVs.

While I do enjoy a good manual on a sports car - I have a 2018 Camaro SS 1LE that I track often, and thoroughly enjoy it. But here is the difference - for that vehicle, during those model years, the manual was the ONLY option, and they went to Tremec, which has some of the best high-torque manuals in the world. The manual was the main focus - it was not an afterthought to check a box in the product plan.

When I drove my friend's Wrangler manual - I literally thought there was something wrong with it - the gearing was all wrong past 3rd, the clutch engagement was not pleasant/natural, and the shifting action was just plain horrible.

I drive a lot of (student) manual cars as I am a track instructor. I like the action on Hondas, the Subau BRZ, the 6-speed Porches and the Camaro/Mustangs with the Tremecs. The Mustangs and BMWs with Getrags (MT-82, etc) as barely ok and don't last.







That is a long way of saying that some vehicles have manuals that are worth it and enjoyable to drive, some are really good, and some are just afterthought junks.

Don't get a manual just to get a manual. Get a manual if it is a good manual. The Wrangler, sadly is not and this clutch issue is just making matters worse.
Any day of the week, I (and my wife for that matter) HATE automatics, we will choose a sloppy slush box and bad feeling clutch of computer controlled transmissions any day. Both of us have only had problems with automatics, and the overall aspect of driving is changed for the worse in our opinion.
 

BuyHold

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Depends, if you replaced the clutch, don't take it in and say nothing, its only gonna cause headaches for you and the dealer doing the recall. Do say you replaced the clutch to FCA first, they will let you know if reimbursement or replacing under the recall is the better choice. This again ALLLLLLL depends on what actual repair they create.
Thank you. This is helpful. I wasn't suggesting that I was ever considering withholding information about a replaced clutch. But yes, of course "hiding" a replacement from a dealer and letting them figure it out when/if I take my Jeep in for the recall "repair" is one way but it seems like a stupid path to take.

I was more specifically interested in how the removal of the recall flag on my vehicle would happen if I were to take an aftermarket clutch replacement path. If Stellantis prescribes a pressure plate replacement with new equipment, but I have already replaced the entire assembly, I am not going to want to have a dealer "fix" my Jeep, I would just want them to clear the recall flag. And if Stellantis would potentially reimburse me for replacing a defectively designed component then I would welcome that. I transport my kids in my Jeep and thinking it could explode in flame scares me and compels me to address the issue immediately myself.


Right now though, there is no information about what the fix will be. Software update, rebleeding, new hydraulic lines, pressure plate replacement with new design, dealer revving engine and dropping clutch check.... some combination of those. What I understand is that Jeep is going to minimize costs (IMO fair for them to do) but based on their prior actions to date re: clutch, I am not optimistic that the fix will actually work. We will have to wait a year to see if there are any new presure plate explosions or see if anybody dies in a transmission centered inferno for us/NHTSA/Jeep to assess success. Hopefully neither of those things happen but regardless, have cross our hearts and hold our breath and blindly trust Jeep made things right until the data rolls in.
 
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Somnium

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I thought the sleeve on the hose and dump the clutch "fix" was a cop out, and the "Software update" was even more of a joke. So fingers crossed, they do the right thing and replace the whole works and be done with it!
 

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BuyHold

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Well, manual transmissions are coming to an end for most SUVs.
This is sad but probably true. What is going to almost certainly happen is that automatics serve as the bridge between ICE and electrified vehicles (like the 4xe). Then even automatics will die off. Teslas and Rivians, for example don't have "transmissions" as far as I understand it. Direct fixed drive connections between motors and wheels.

I drive a lot of (student) manual cars as I am a track instructor. I like the action on Hondas, the Subau BRZ, the 6-speed Porches and the Camaro/Mustangs with the Tremecs. The Mustangs and BMWs with Getrags (MT-82, etc) as barely ok and don't last.

...

Don't get a manual just to get a manual. Get a manual if it is a good manual. The Wrangler, sadly is not and this clutch issue is just making matters worse.
I really love my 6sp. Aside from the clutch issues, which is a wet blanket on the whole drivetrain, it is very fun to me. I would never expect my Jeep transmission to feel like that of any of the street/track cars you cite. In fact, I would hope that it didn't.. The more tractor like it is, the better it is to my liking (i.e. low and slow).
 

Toycrusher

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This is sad but probably true. What is going to almost certainly happen is that automatics serve as the bridge between ICE and electrified vehicles (like the 4xe). Then even automatics will die off. Teslas and Rivians, for example don't have "transmissions" as far as I understand it. Direct fixed drive connections between motors and wheels.



I really love my 6sp. Aside from the clutch issues, which is a wet blanket on the whole drivetrain, it is very fun to me. I would never expect my Jeep transmission to feel like that of any of the street/track cars you cite. In fact, I would hope that it didn't.. The more tractor like it is, the better it is to my liking (i.e. low and slow).
While most EVs have only a single speed gear reduction box (technically a transmission), some have 2-speed units, and they would all benefit from additional gear reduction in a low-speed crawling situation.
 

TheKeither

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This is sad but probably true. What is going to almost certainly happen is that automatics serve as the bridge between ICE and electrified vehicles (like the 4xe). Then even automatics will die off. Teslas and Rivians, for example don't have "transmissions" as far as I understand it. Direct fixed drive connections between motors and wheels.



I really love my 6sp. Aside from the clutch issues, which is a wet blanket on the whole drivetrain, it is very fun to me. I would never expect my Jeep transmission to feel like that of any of the street/track cars you cite. In fact, I would hope that it didn't.. The more tractor like it is, the better it is to my liking (i.e. low and slow).
I still say this is not a clutch problem per se. Its the combination of ANY MT and ESS.

Words cannot describe how much I LOATHE ESS. The first thing I do (90%) is start the Jeep and turn off ESS, then back out of the garage.

For that other 10% of the time, it ticks me off that I forgot to turn it off.

The thing is, the vehicle starts up as soon as the clutch begins to be engaged. What I learned was, always put the clutch to the floor when starting, shifting etc.

What you get with a quarter engaged clutch is.......uneven wear.

THIS is the design flaw. ESS + MT.

/rant
 

_olllllllo_

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This is sad but probably true. What is going to almost certainly happen is that automatics serve as the bridge between ICE and electrified vehicles (like the 4xe). Then even automatics will die off. Teslas and Rivians, for example don't have "transmissions" as far as I understand it. Direct fixed drive connections between motors and wheels.



I really love my 6sp. Aside from the clutch issues, which is a wet blanket on the whole drivetrain, it is very fun to me. I would never expect my Jeep transmission to feel like that of any of the street/track cars you cite. In fact, I would hope that it didn't.. The more tractor like it is, the better it is to my liking (i.e. low and slow).
Remember that both the Magento and Magneto 2 BEV concept Wranglers Jeep brought to EJS two-years running were 6-speeds. My Centerforce II dual-friction clutch is rated for 494 ft/lbs of torque, so I am ready to convert to a single large motor and a solid state battery pack when the technology is ready and available off-the-shelf is five or so years.
 

imperial4ever

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Just landed in my inbox, courtesy of NHTSA.

My $0.02 after almost 5 years ownership, two clutch recalls (a plastic sleeve and software flash), frame weld recall (inspection only and mine passed), a bricked UConnect (replaced with refurbished unit that had ancient software build and which no longer gets OTA updates - I flashed latest build myself)…. I think anyone speculating that FCA will replace 69,000 clutches is dreaming. They will come up with another inspection/test (dump clutch in 3rd at high rpm to make sure it doesn’t slip) and flash more software. Perhaps the new software will come with the addition of a temperature sensor this time.

I’m an eternal pessimist, but that’s my take.

All of that said, I have 52,000 happy miles and stopped worrying about this crappy pressure plate long ago. I carry a fire extinguisher and that’s really all I can control. I worry a lot more about being hit by some dummy playing on their phone.

Here’s the recall e-mail:

Your vehicle MAY be involved in a safety recall and MAY create a safety risk for you or your passengers. If left unrepaired, a potential safety defect could lead to injury or even death. Safety defects must be repaired by a dealer at no cost to you.

Why am I getting this email?
You are receiving this message because you requested to be notified by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) if there is a safety recall that mayaffect your vehicle.

The following may apply to one or more of your vehicles if your vehicle is listed below. Click on the NHTSA Recall ID Number below to read more about the safety issue and the reason for the recall.

To find out if your specific passenger vehicle is included in the recall, use our VIN Look-up Tool.

NHTSA Recall ID Number :​
23V116
Manufacturer :​
Chrysler (FCA US, LLC)
Subject :​
Clutch Pressure Plate May Overheat
Make​
Model​
Model Years​
JEEP​
GLADIATOR​
2020-2023​
JEEP​
WRANGLER​
2018-2023​
What is a recall?
When a manufacturer or the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) determines that a vehicle creates an unreasonable risk to safety or fails to meet minimum safety standards, the manufacturer is required to fix that vehicle at no cost to the owner. That can be done by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund (for equipment) or, in rare cases, repurchasing the car.

What should I do if my vehicle is included in this recall?
If your vehicle is included in this recall, it is very important that you get it fixed as soon as possible given the potential danger to you and your passengers if it is not addressed. You should receive a separate letter in the mail from the vehicle manufacturer, notifying you of the recall and explaining when the remedy will be available, whom to contact to repair your vehicle, and to remind you that the repair will be done at no charge to you. If you believe your vehicle is included in the recall, but you do not receive a letter in the mail from the vehicle manufacturer, please call NHTSA's Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236
Jeep Wrangler JL Clutch Recall (2/23/23): Clutch Pressure Plate May Overheat -- Affecting 70,000 Manual Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators {filename}
Jeep Wrangler JL Clutch Recall (2/23/23): Clutch Pressure Plate May Overheat -- Affecting 70,000 Manual Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators {filename}
, or contact your vehicle manufacturer or dealership.

Thank you for your attention to this important safety matter and for your commitment to helping save lives on America's roadways.

Additional Resources
Understanding Vehicle Recalls
Recalls FAQ

Thank you,

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
United States Department of Transportation

Jeep Wrangler JL Clutch Recall (2/23/23): Clutch Pressure Plate May Overheat -- Affecting 70,000 Manual Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators {filename}
The Ram brand just got hit with another recall. With all of these Chrysler, Daimler, Cerebus, Fiat, Stellantis recalls, it is amazing there are any service techs left to perform routine oil changes and annual state and emisison inpections.
https://moparinsiders.com/recall-ra...-for-trailer-reverse-steering-control-module/
 

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BuyHold

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@TheKeither ESS totally sucks. I completely agree. I wonder though what the difference in clutch interaction would be for the ESS relative to just plain old engine throttle engagement? Perhaps the starter torque exceeds design specs of the clutch and therefore generates excessive wear and tear on the pressure plate when partial engagement of clutch occurs?

Most failures appear to be occurring at highway speeds where ESS, presumably, would not be engaging. Only way ESS would play a role is if it was causing undue wear and tear on clutch/pressure plate components that then permanently compromised the clutch assembly's holding power. I am no transmission engineer but I am having a hard time seeing the link.
 

JT1

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@TheKeither ESS totally sucks. I completely agree. I wonder though what the difference in clutch interaction would be for the ESS relative to just plain old engine throttle engagement? Perhaps the starter torque exceeds design specs of the clutch and therefore generates excessive wear and tear on the pressure plate?

Most failures appear to be occurring at highway speeds where ESS, presumably, would not be engaging. Only way ESS would play a role is if it was causing undue wear and tear on clutch/pressure plate components that then reduced holding power. I am no transmission engineer but I am having a hard time seeing the link.
I'd guess you are looking at it backwards. The flywheel was lightened (too far) to keep from burning up the stupid micro battery and starter, therefore the failure moved. I'd rather replace a starter or battery a dozen times and not have to F with a clutch/flywheel issue.. but auto engineers know best and the rest of us can take all logic and reason and choke.
 

TeleJeep

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I bought my 2018 MT JLU Sahara as "Certified Used" with only 12k miles, its previous owner was FCA as a demonstrator. I've driven sticks since 1969 and never wore out a clutch. My dealer bought it at the FCA auction in 2019 and sold it to me as "Certified Used." I had both clutch recalls done (hose and software) and all seemed good until December 2022 (with 35k miles) when the clutch started slipping in 4th, 5th, or 6th gears. Mild acceleration (with clutch engaged) would result in immediate RPM gain and slippage. The warranty would not cover any repairs and the dealer couldn't take it in right away due to work load and staffing issues. I took it to an independent garage and had the clutch replaced with the latest (as of December 2022) Mopar parts. They did a great job the new clutch engages at the right point and doesn't slip. The independent shop got it all right the first time, hydraulics, shift cables, etc. Cost me $$$$ but all seems well. However, is the rebuild destined to fail again (hence the new 19A recall)? Or was there a change made in the Mopar parts that were installed in December that fixed the issue? This time is Stellantis' recall going to replace the clutch entirely? Or are they going to buy back and melt down our beloved manual-transmission Jeeps this time?
 
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BuyHold

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I'd guess you are looking at it backwards. The flywheel was lightened (too far) to keep from burning up the stupid micro battery and starter, therefore the failure moved. I'd rather replace a starter or battery a dozen times and not have to F with a clutch/flywheel issue.. but auto engineers know best and the rest of us can take all logic and reason and choke.
I see what you are saying. Basically, that the assembly was poorly designed for the use. That the assembly had to be lightweight for ESS resulted in misplaced focus on weight rather at the expense of durable clamping power. OK. That seems fine. I don't think that this means it is ESS's fault per se, sounds like engineering decision in current emission mandate environment. i.e. poor design period related to, but not due to ESS.

Given that Jeep has to maintain ESS functionality, I don't expect their "fix" to fix anything. Alternative path is to go with aftermarket assembly and religiously turn ESS off or taser it off permanently. I do hope that Jeep surprises us.

How does Ford manage it with their Bronco?
 
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OldGuyNewJeep

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However, is the rebuild destined to fail again (hence the new 19A recall)? Or was there a change made in the Mopar parts that were installed in December that fixed the issue?
Considering there is a stop sale on new ones, no. You still have to do this recall.

This time is Stellantis' recall going to replace the clutch entirely?
😂 There’s no chance. They will slap on another bandage.
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