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Punknhed

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This is the way.


Unless your Jeep burns to the ground. Then what? I'm not saying it to be standoffish, either. Is that really what Jeep expects?


I hate to say it, but stuff like this is slowly pushing me toward selling and ordering a 4xe Rubi.
the clutch was the number one reason for me dumping this one. that and that Punkn came back out. loved the jeep hated the clutch and didnt feel like spending almost 2k on a centerforce that STILL isnt guaranteed to work. just not worth the potential headaches.
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eurodin

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The engine has more leverage over the holding power of the clutch when using overdrive. Add to this the overall condition of the clutch, oversized tires, improper final gearing, trailer weight, steep grades and wind resistance with rising road speed. This is the reason you tend to see them fail on the interstates. I'd also say Sport and Sahara's in JL/JT's with 3.42 final gearing would show up first with a slipping clutch before a 4.10 equipped Rubicon. Jeep just needs to throw in a beefed up clutch cover with more holding power. My 2 cents.

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This is a good comment. I have 4.10. I try to always turn off traction control when I am deep snow, but I will more often time leave it in 4H.

Weak clutch, 4H, 4.10, no torque down, low lot's of traction (even in snow) = clutch slip.
 

eurodin

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They rock crawl fine. Ironically most of the first hand accounts I’ve read were pavement princesses. There was only one I can recall doing much off roading.
This has made me take the position of “just drive it”. No amount of pampering will stop it from exploding. If you drew the short stick, babying it won’t keep you safe.
Separate topic, I wonder if Stellantis has been fighting with Aisin behind the scenes. Wish I could take a peak from 10 years in the future to see what is actually going on.
If they rock climb fine, then people would not be so fast switching out the clutch for CF, and there should no be recalls. Not sure I believe the pavement princess comment as it defies the laws of physics, unless the short stick makes the data really sweked. I find the clutch perfectly adequate on the pavement with 2H. Never had a problem.

I have thousands of pulls on 1/4 on an NHRA track. I don't think I have 12" problem. And the clutch was broken in perfect the first 500 miles and pampered.

Never liked dual mass. They are only good for low noise and smooth. Swapped out the first dual mass on the first vehicle I owned for a single mass and never had problems.
 

Some Random Guy

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If they rock climb fine, then people would not be so fast switching out the clutch for CF, and there should no be recalls. Not sure I believe the pavement princess comment as it defies the laws of physics, unless the short stick makes the data really sweked. I find the clutch perfectly adequate on the pavement with 2H. Never had a problem.

I have thousands of pulls on 1/4 on an NHRA track. I don't think I have 12" problem. And the clutch was broken in perfect the first 500 miles and pampered.

Never liked dual mass. They are only good for low noise and smooth. Swapped out the first dual mass on the first vehicle I owned for a single mass and never had problems.
I have only read 4 or 5 first hand accounts with anything approaching details. I would not call that a good sample size, just a personal observation (as I implied). Only 1 was modified with anything more than slightly bigger tires.

Guess I counted on the reader not assuming I was a data analyst/researcher/litigator when I said that.

As for “people” swapping clutches, they do it on all vehicles. Or swap pedal springs, flywheels, etc. We all have different preferences for pedal feel or engagement based on useage or just plain taste. To me that’s normal and doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the clutch or Ford/Chevy/Dodge would be bankrupt from all the “bad” clutches they installed on their performance cars. I believe most CF swaps are for personal preference or to handle substantial modification/abuse, not necessity.

Now, Jeeps having the clutch explode out of the bell housing. That’s wrong. I hope they figure it out before anyone dies. I also hope that “fix” isn’t to end the manual sales and send all of us checks to use towards a new clutch. Let’s face it, they’d send us $20 and a “free” oil change.
 

Stengaaa

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I have only read 4 or 5 first hand accounts with anything approaching details. I would not call that a good sample size, just a personal observation (as I implied). Only 1 was modified with anything more than slightly bigger tires.

Guess I counted on the reader not assuming I was a data analyst/researcher/litigator when I said that.

As for “people” swapping clutches, they do it on all vehicles. Or swap pedal springs, flywheels, etc. We all have different preferences for pedal feel or engagement based on useage or just plain taste. To me that’s normal and doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the clutch or Ford/Chevy/Dodge would be bankrupt from all the “bad” clutches they installed on their performance cars. I believe most CF swaps are for personal preference or to handle substantial modification/abuse, not necessity.

Now, Jeeps having the clutch explode out of the bell housing. That’s wrong. I hope they figure it out before anyone dies. I also hope that “fix” isn’t to end the manual sales and send all of us checks to use towards a new clutch. Let’s face it, they’d send us $20 and a “free” oil change.
I hope not either because I haven’t taken delivery yet, it’s still not built and I don’t want an automatic ( I’d possibly only consider it if they didn’t charge me for an automatic)
 

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USAFREODRetired

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I just had a CF installed a few months ago. At first, it was insanely stiff, but it's broken in nicely, and very happy with it. I went CF because I'm now towing an off-road teardrop and didn't want my clutch grenading on me in the backcountry towing my trailer. Figured Stellantis would cheap out on the fix like they did over the past few years with just a software "tweak." Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 

IanNubbit

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So a couple things
1.) I see alot of people mock "no repair has been created yet". This is normal and happens on almost all recalls, nothing out of the ordinary. Manufacture notices and issue, warning gets sent, then once parts/fix is ready, full recall is sent to customers. Look at the fuel pump recall in the Diesels, that notice was almost a year ago and still no repair available

2.) Most, obviously, don't/Havn't had a catastrophic failure. It's safe to say few have, that dosn't mean that's the only failure. I see weekly (in a mopar dealer tech page, as I am one), some tech posting a destroyed clutch and flywheel on a JL/JT and say somehting along the lines of "Customer said he swears he knows how to drive stick" mocking them. That should tell you theres more problems then people see, some customers catch it before explosive damage. I should say alot of customer have, I've changed 2 myself (in the last 12 Months) that simply complained of clutch smell. So the people who say "learn to drive" etc. I was one of those people as well, the truth is I don't think the drivers are to blame here

3.) The last recall (software update), they didn't release vehicles dealers because it was simply a software update that CAN be performed at the plant. If this recall is a parts/physical repair, the plant can NOT perform the repair, a dealer must. Therefore the vehicle will go to the dealer, then be held under the stop sale until repaired

4.)Lastly, a stop sale IS in effect. With that being said, a VIN list has not dropped yet so until then, they can be purchased/sold, because its not known which vehicles are effected. The VINs could be a handful (we have had recalls with sub 10 units) or it could be 100% coverage of all 6MT JL/JTs. VINs is the verbage used in the industry, units, VINs, vehicles, all the same.
 

eurodin

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So a couple things
1.) I see alot of people mock "no repair has been created yet". This is normal and happens on almost all recalls, nothing out of the ordinary. Manufacture notices and issue, warning gets sent, then once parts/fix is ready, full recall is sent to customers. Look at the fuel pump recall in the Diesels, that notice was almost a year ago and still no repair available

2.) Most, obviously, don't/Havn't had a catastrophic failure. It's safe to say few have, that dosn't mean that's the only failure. I see weekly (in a mopar dealer tech page, as I am one), some tech posting a destroyed clutch and flywheel on a JL/JT and say somehting along the lines of "Customer said he swears he knows how to drive stick" mocking them. That should tell you theres more problems then people see, some customers catch it before explosive damage. I should say alot of customer have, I've changed 2 myself (in the last 12 Months) that simply complained of clutch smell. So the people who say "learn to drive" etc. I was one of those people as well, the truth is I don't think the drivers are to blame here

3.) The last recall (software update), they didn't release vehicles dealers because it was simply a software update that CAN be performed at the plant. If this recall is a parts/physical repair, the plant can NOT perform the repair, a dealer must. Therefore the vehicle will go to the dealer, then be held under the stop sale until repaired

4.)Lastly, a stop sale IS in effect. With that being said, a VIN list has not dropped yet so until then, they can be purchased/sold, because its not known which vehicles are effected. The VINs could be a handful (we have had recalls with sub 10 units) or it could be 100% coverage of all 6MT JL/JTs. VINs is the verbage used in the industry, units, VINs, vehicles, all the same.
Well I never trust anyone, and many people do not know how to drive so I can only imagine all the "noise" that can get created.

But 100% the clutch does not have enough clamping force either undersized, springs not strong enough, friction material not good enough. Again in 2H, normal driving this clutch appears to be adequate. The clutch feel I find is very bad and catches high. I never like a high catch clutch. If I am wearing boots forget it.

I get a bad smell only in 4H. Is there mention of root cause? If a fire is happening I can only imagine the heat is transpiring due to slippage. No other way to generate heat.

I also notice the clutch engagement is much better off an engine start/stop. I am wondering if there is too little mass on the OEM Flywheel to give it a good feel.
 

IanNubbit

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Well I never trust anyone, and many people do not know how to drive so I can only imagine all the "noise" that can get created.

But 100% the clutch does not have enough clamping force either undersized, springs not strong enough, friction material not good enough. Again in 2H, normal driving this clutch appears to be adequate. The clutch feel I find is very bad and catches high. I never like a high catch clutch. If I am wearing boots forget it.

I get a bad smell only in 4H. Is there mention of root cause? If a fire is happening I can only imagine the heat is transpiring due to slippage. No other way to generate heat.

I also notice the clutch engagement is much better off an engine start/stop. I am wondering if there is too little mass on the OEM Flywheel to give it a good feel.
Basically your last statement is dead on, very lightweight flywheel. The issues is the dual mass as a whole. Too much heat gets trapped in the “cage” it seems. Also note theres no form of “cooling fins” on the trans or bell housing, which could help, and most sports cars with dual friction clutchs have just this. Its just not the right fight for the type of vehicle. While you say that your experience is issues in 4 wheel. Basically every failure I've seen was driving down the highway, multiple people never put it in 4 wheel. Trust me, owners suck at driving cars, no offense to anyone, but but theres some baddddd drivers out there. But realistically vehicles should be built to function at-least during warranty at a minimum with regular driving. As poor as some people regular driving is. My big take away, is its a design issue above all. Our JK has 120k on it (2012) and not even the slightest hint of an issue, nor do i know of any regular complaints about the JK clutch. The trans likes to not hold in reverse, but the clutch was always good
 

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Basically your last statement is dead on, very lightweight flywheel. The issues is the dual mass as a whole. Too much heat gets trapped in the “cage” it seems. Also note theres no form of “cooling fins” on the trans or bell housing, which could help, and most sports cars with dual friction clutchs have just this. Its just not the right fight for the type of vehicle. While you say that your experience is issues in 4 wheel. Basically every failure I've seen was driving down the highway, multiple people never put it in 4 wheel. Trust me, owners suck at driving cars, no offense to anyone, but but theres some baddddd drivers out there. But realistically vehicles should be built to function at-least during warranty at a minimum with regular driving. As poor as some people regular driving is. My big take away, is its a design issue above all. Our JK has 120k on it (2012) and not even the slightest hint of an issue, nor do i know of any regular complaints about the JK clutch. The trans likes to not hold in reverse, but the clutch was always good
Wondering if the lack of dead pedal is the cause for people resting foot on the clutch down the highway and causing this. I could be wrong, but there is litteraly no load down a highway, well the thing is a brick, so just drag load.
 

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IanNubbit

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Wondering if the lack of dead pedal is the cause for people resting foot on the clutch down the highway and causing this. I could be wrong, but there is litteraly no load down a highway, well the thing is a brick, so just drag load.
I don't believe load has anything to do with it. I think the heat created is causing the friction material to give way. Cruising down the highway creates ALOT of heat in the drivetrain area of the vehicle. While these transmission cases do have an “exhaust vent” built i to the case, it expells right into the body and doesn't really have any air movement to be useful.
 

Stengaaa

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I don't believe load has anything to do with it. I think the heat created is causing the friction material to give way. Cruising down the highway creates ALOT of heat in the drivetrain area of the vehicle. While these transmission cases do have an “exhaust vent” built i to the case, it expells right into the body and doesn't really have any air movement to be useful.
Maybe the fix might be an extension to that vent to route it somewhere else so it can breathe better to do a better job cooling?
 

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Unless your Jeep burns to the ground. Then what? I'm not saying it to be standoffish, either. Is that really what Jeep expects?
Not to be flippant, but if it happens, get out. Wait a couple of min to make sure fire is terminal (assuming no-one is in danger), call 911. File insurance claim. Let insurance company try to recover from Jeep.

I only see two options for manual JL owners. Put a proper clutch on the Jeep on your own dime, or run it till it blows. Jeep will only do the right thing if enough fires are reported to NHTSA. Got forbid someone gets killed or severely insured by fire or flying shrapnel.
 

eurodin

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I don't believe load has anything to do with it. I think the heat created is causing the friction material to give way. Cruising down the highway creates ALOT of heat in the drivetrain area of the vehicle. While these transmission cases do have an “exhaust vent” built i to the case, it expells right into the body and doesn't really have any air movement to be useful.
Except the engine bay at highwayspeed is the coolest. Do you have data proving otherwise?

I have seen a ton of of bellhousing with no venting, 100% sealed, no cooling fins and they work fine.

Respectfully not buying that argument.
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